Single Player bugs and crashes v36 plus (SVN) - After the 24th of October 2015

[Usul13]

SVN 9030

The Build a Plant Picker button of the worker UI is currently named as "TXT_KEY_BUILD_PLANT_PICKER".

 

[Thunderbrd]

My "tales of.." unit can't move into Heliopolis to build its building. The only reason I can see is because there is an enemy thief in the city. I don't see how a thief could stop an idea from entering a city

I play with the Babylonian Empire. I attacking the Russians north of me. I have one large stack on the tile east from St. Petersburg and a second one south-east from my first stack. On the same tile as my first stack there is a hidden Atlatlist. On the tile north from my first stack there is a Deer Rider.

When I hit the End Turn button some strange thing happens.

First, my 8 Battering Rams from the first stack disappears into the thin air. I think the Atlatlist destroys them but I don't get any attacking animation, message, Event Log or Combat Log. If something like this happens I would like to know about it without extensive investigation, because at the first time I only noticed that my Battering Rams disappeared without any reason. It would be good to get a message which says a hidden enemy destroyed my units.

I know about the Atlatlist from two things. One - the next thing the Atlatlist does is attacking my second stack. It seems to be normal. Two - I reloaded the game a couple of times and in the world builder I saw that the Atlatlist is on the tile even before I step onto it with my stack. In my stack there is a Trained Cat which have strong modifiers to see camouflaged units. I thought the Cat should reveal the Atlatlist next to it. Maybe I was wrong.

Second, the Deer Rider attacks my second stack. It is strange because it can do it by going through my first stack. I think the Deer Rider should be able to attack only the first stack, because they are surrounded with mountains and the only way to my second stack leads through my first stack. Instead the Deer Rider steps onto the tile where my first stack is, and attacks my second stack.

The save was made with SVN 9023. A recalc doesn't solve it. I upgraded to SVN 9030 and the problem is still there.

The Options of my game:
No City Razing
No Vassal States
No Revolutions
Usable Mountains
Surround and Destroy
Advanced Diplomacy
Unlimited Wonders
No Zones of Control
Great Commanders
Personalized Map
Advanced Economy
Realistic Culture Spread
Larger Cities without Metropolitan Administration
Realistic Corporations
Religion Decay
Advanced Espionage
Modern Corporations
Advanced Nukes
Infinite XP
Pure Traits
Developing Leaders
Focused Traits
C2C Combat Mod - Fight or Flight
Minimum City Border
Assigned Specialists XP
Teleport Hunting Awards
C2C Combat Mod - Hide and Seek

BUG Options besides the default settings:
General tab
-Inverse Shift on queueing
Caveman2Cosmos tab
-Name Cities after nearly Landmarks
-Ignore alerts from Disabled Buildings
-Multiple Religion Spread
-Terrain Damage

Will look into these issues as soon as I can.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

SVN 9030

The Build a Plant Picker button of the worker UI is currently named as "TXT_KEY_BUILD_PLANT_PICKER".

Dang, I did a search and found that text. I must have been looking in a backup version of C2C. I'll fix.

 

[strategyonly]

I exited to Main Menu and poof CTD??

 

[Thunderbrd]

I exited to Main Menu and poof CTD??

All I can tell from the mini is that it took place in the exe. I believe this is an occasional problem CivIV has always had and is not a reflection of the mod.

 

[Thunderbrd]

@DH: Yeah, that's an odd situation with your tales. I'll have to take a much deeper investigation into the code but I'm sure it relates to the root of why settlers were being shunted off the city they were founding. I'll figure it out. These movement rule adjustments are so hard to get aligned properly because it is SO complex in the way the code weaves through functions expecting different results from multiple calls to the same function to get things to behave properly. Obviously, fixing something else probably caused this here now. I have a suspicion as to the culprit adjustment at least.

 

[Dreifels]

little bug but annoying:
Montezoma has a pig in Europe that always comes again, even if you kill it 100x
So Montezoma gets contact to those civs of Europe early.

 

[Thunderbrd]

little bug but annoying:
Montezoma has a pig in Europe that always comes again, even if you kill it 100x
So Montezoma gets contact to those civs of Europe early.

Sorry... don't really understand. What's the problem with the pig? That Montezuma has captured it? How did Montezuma get into a position to capture a pig in Europe and how does it come back if you kill it one hundred times?

Is the pig spawning AS Montezuma's pig? Very odd that if that's the case. Suggests some kind of flaw in xml somewhere.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I play with the Babylonian Empire. I attacking the Russians north of me. I have one large stack on the tile east from St. Petersburg and a second one south-east from my first stack. On the same tile as my first stack there is a hidden Atlatlist. On the tile north from my first stack there is a Deer Rider.

When I hit the End Turn button some strange thing happens.

First, my 8 Battering Rams from the first stack disappears into the thin air. I think the Atlatlist destroys them but I don't get any attacking animation, message, Event Log or Combat Log. If something like this happens I would like to know about it without extensive investigation, because at the first time I only noticed that my Battering Rams disappeared without any reason. It would be good to get a message which says a hidden enemy destroyed my units.

I know about the Atlatlist from two things. One - the next thing the Atlatlist does is attacking my second stack. It seems to be normal. Two - I reloaded the game a couple of times and in the world builder I saw that the Atlatlist is on the tile even before I step onto it with my stack. In my stack there is a Trained Cat which have strong modifiers to see camouflaged units. I thought the Cat should reveal the Atlatlist next to it. Maybe I was wrong.

Second, the Deer Rider attacks my second stack. It is strange because it can do it by going through my first stack. I think the Deer Rider should be able to attack only the first stack, because they are surrounded with mountains and the only way to my second stack leads through my first stack. Instead the Deer Rider steps onto the tile where my first stack is, and attacks my second stack.

The save was made with SVN 9023. A recalc doesn't solve it. I upgraded to SVN 9030 and the problem is still there.

The Options of my game:
No City Razing
No Vassal States
No Revolutions
Usable Mountains
Surround and Destroy
Advanced Diplomacy
Unlimited Wonders
No Zones of Control
Great Commanders
Personalized Map
Advanced Economy
Realistic Culture Spread
Larger Cities without Metropolitan Administration
Realistic Corporations
Religion Decay
Advanced Espionage
Modern Corporations
Advanced Nukes
Infinite XP
Pure Traits
Developing Leaders
Focused Traits
C2C Combat Mod - Fight or Flight
Minimum City Border
Assigned Specialists XP
Teleport Hunting Awards
C2C Combat Mod - Hide and Seek

BUG Options besides the default settings:
General tab
-Inverse Shift on queueing
Caveman2Cosmos tab
-Name Cities after nearly Landmarks
-Ignore alerts from Disabled Buildings
-Multiple Religion Spread
-Terrain Damage

Managed to get to DH's bug tonight but I'll have to get to yours tomorrow.

The capturing or destruction of all 8 siege units doesn't seem right. Theoretically, however, the deer rider probably couldn't see your first stack which was why it moved through. Had one of the potential defenders in that stack been set to stealth attack them if they tried it, you would've surprised them as they went for the second stack. I'll take a look at why the cat didn't see the atlatlist, but even heavily promoted, cats don't get much in terms of a native 'see camouflage' ability. Nothing like dogs. Then again, an atlatlist doesn't get any native camo hiding either but depending on the terrain might've had a point or more if it had been promoted to. Might've been something off there but I'll look at the math.

When I can.

 

[Usul13]

Managed to get to DH's bug tonight but I'll have to get to yours tomorrow.

The capturing or destruction of all 8 siege units doesn't seem right. Theoretically, however, the deer rider probably couldn't see your first stack which was why it moved through. Had one of the potential defenders in that stack been set to stealth attack them if they tried it, you would've surprised them as they went for the second stack. I'll take a look at why the cat didn't see the atlatlist, but even heavily promoted, cats don't get much in terms of a native 'see camouflage' ability. Nothing like dogs. Then again, an atlatlist doesn't get any native camo hiding either but depending on the terrain might've had a point or more if it had been promoted to. Might've been something off there but I'll look at the math.

When I can.

It's not an urgent matter from my point of view, not a game breaking problem so far.

Cats vs Dogs. As I looked into it, both of their basic visibility on camouflaged units stat is 3, but the dog can be promoted better along this line. I thought that the cat will be good enough. I didn't count the promotions so probably this part is my bad, but at least I learned something about H&S.

Deer Rider. If it can't see my stack then I think it's definitely a problem. We have an old joke, which goes something like this:

1: Why the elephant's eyes are red?
2: ???
1: To be able to hide on a cherry tree. Have you ever seen an elephant on a cherry tree?
2: No.
1: See how good it can hide?

In my stack there are elephants and bears and some other units. So if they can hide from anyone then it is a very funny thing. They shouldn't be invisible to anyone except if there are some blind units in the game.

 

[Snofru1]

Another case where buildings can´t be constructed because of building chains:

If you build the Tower of Silence you cannot build a Graveyard (can´t have both in a city, that´s OK).
You need the Graveyard to build the Stele, Mausoleum, Spearpoint Burial, Capuchin Crypt, Ancient Embalmer, City Morgue, Mortuary, Funeral Pyre
You need the City Morgue to build the Police Precinct.
You need the Police Precinct to build Police Mechs (and other units/buildings).

So if you build a Tower of Silence you can never build a Police Mech in that city (that´s how I found out)!

Solution: Graveyard and Tower of Silence shouldn´t exclude each other. There are other places in the world where people from different religions put their dead people to rest in the same city.

 

[Dreifels]

Sorry... don't really understand. What's the problem with the pig? That Montezuma has captured it? How did Montezuma get into a position to capture a pig in Europe and how does it come back if you kill it one hundred times?

Is the pig spawning AS Montezuma's pig? Very odd that if that's the case. Suggests some kind of flaw in xml somewhere.

yes, it spawns always new as Montezuma's pig in that area, not exact on same field, but around that.

By this, Montezoma gets contact with the civs around there in early game.

 

[Thunderbrd]

It's not an urgent matter from my point of view, not a game breaking problem so far.

Cats vs Dogs. As I looked into it, both of their basic visibility on camouflaged units stat is 3, but the dog can be promoted better along this line. I thought that the cat will be good enough. I didn't count the promotions so probably this part is my bad, but at least I learned something about H&S.

Deer Rider. If it can't see my stack then I think it's definitely a problem. We have an old joke, which goes something like this:

1: Why the elephant's eyes are red?
2: ???
1: To be able to hide on a cherry tree. Have you ever seen an elephant on a cherry tree?
2: No.
1: See how good it can hide?

In my stack there are elephants and bears and some other units. So if they can hide from anyone then it is a very funny thing. They shouldn't be invisible to anyone except if there are some blind units in the game.

It'll take a little 'looking into things' to see how this was possible. It does depend on the terrains and features a bit. Even elephants can be difficult to see when they're in a swamp I believe. But I may have a few too many settings being a little too loose when it comes to some points. And there's the possibility of bugs of course.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Another case where buildings can´t be constructed because of building chains:

If you build the Tower of Silence you cannot build a Graveyard (can´t have both in a city, that´s OK).
You need the Graveyard to build the Stele, Mausoleum, Spearpoint Burial, Capuchin Crypt, Ancient Embalmer, City Morgue, Mortuary, Funeral Pyre
You need the City Morgue to build the Police Precinct.
You need the Police Precinct to build Police Mechs (and other units/buildings).

So if you build a Tower of Silence you can never build a Police Mech in that city (that´s how I found out)!

Solution: Graveyard and Tower of Silence shouldn´t exclude each other. There are other places in the world where people from different religions put their dead people to rest in the same city.

Good observation!

yes, it spawns always new as Montezuma's pig in that area, not exact on same field, but around that.

By this, Montezoma gets contact with the civs around there in early game.

How an animal is spawning as anything but a barbarian unit is far beyond any guess from me. However, I must wonder if it's a manifestation of a much much much bigger problem... how many civs are on this map?

 

[Usul13]

It'll take a little 'looking into things' to see how this was possible. It does depend on the terrains and features a bit. Even elephants can be difficult to see when they're in a swamp I believe. But I may have a few too many settings being a little too loose when it comes to some points. And there's the possibility of bugs of course.

I see the logic in this. I'm not sure if I agree or not.

As I looked into the unit statistics about the Visibility modifiers on the units, and it indeed can be possible that all of my units got enough invisibility points in the stack to be invisible to the Deer Rider. It is a marsh/peat bog plot which gives the units 2 invisibility points if I'm not mistaken.

I have two thoughts about this. One, I think it should be a little more refined, a little more fine grained. An Axeman gets the same amount of invisibility as the Elephant Rider which seems to me unrealistic. Two, the stack size should matter. A huge stack with lots of units should be much less invisible than a single unit.

I don't know how difficult would be to implement these game mechanics, but these could give some kind of solution to my problem.

And of course the H&S system is quite new to me, so I need to get used to it. Although it is quite fun to get these unexpected events.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I have two thoughts about this. One, I think it should be a little more refined, a little more fine grained. An Axeman gets the same amount of invisibility as the Elephant Rider which seems to me unrealistic. Two, the stack size should matter. A huge stack with lots of units should be much less invisible than a single unit.

I think you're right in that larger size and volume should also counteract some camouflage invisibility that may be coming from other sources. I'll look at some adjustments to make there. Might have an impact on Ruffians that isn't intended but if it makes the Ruff's have to stick to certain terrains to make their camo count for much then that may be a good thing.

I get what you're saying about further granularity but I'm resistant to that for numerous reasons. If I can get this balanced nicely keeping it a little simpler it would be better for player comprehension and processing speed.

I've also noticed I need to refine the promotion values for stealth strikes and stealth combat modifiers. Saw a Neanderthal thinking it would be invisible from group volume sitting on a village with stealth defense buildup and that's not quite right.

 

[Dreifels]

How an animal is spawning as anything but a barbarian unit is far beyond any guess from me. However, I must wonder if it's a manifestation of a much much much bigger problem... how many civs are on this map?

I started with max civs (all random, except me, with cultural relations, as predefinition in GEM) minus 2. Lot of animals are spawning always, but no barbarien seen yet. (I didn't set "no barbarian")

I think I'll start a new game (also because the F1 problem), or I go back to my old backup version whhich hasn't the F1 problem. (means, that I can't upgrade by SVN because after that the F1 problem occurs)

Edit
1) the montezoma's pic may be my faut. A click after open the worldbuilder, as montezoma is the first civ
2) the F1 problem is more difficult
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=561809

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Another case where buildings can´t be constructed because of building chains:

If you build the Tower of Silence you cannot build a Graveyard (can´t have both in a city, that´s OK).
You need the Graveyard to build the Stele, Mausoleum, Spearpoint Burial, Capuchin Crypt, Ancient Embalmer, City Morgue, Mortuary, Funeral Pyre
You need the City Morgue to build the Police Precinct.
You need the Police Precinct to build Police Mechs (and other units/buildings).

So if you build a Tower of Silence you can never build a Police Mech in that city (that´s how I found out)!

Solution: Graveyard and Tower of Silence shouldn´t exclude each other. There are other places in the world where people from different religions put their dead people to rest in the same city.

The Tower of Silence and Graveyard must exclude each other especially early in the game. The Funeral Pyre should also exclude both and be excluded by both, I wondered why it wasn't. There should also be a water set.

You should have a choice of which set of burial practices you want in your nation. Later in the game we may want a combined generic set.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I started with max civs (all random, except me, with cultural relations, as predefinition in GEM) minus 2. Lot of animals are spawning always, but no barbarien seen yet. (I didn't set "no barbarian")

That is as suspected and may have something to do with your F1 problem too. Could it be possible that a newly introduced civilization has overcrowded the max limit and confused the definition of a barbarian unit? I'm not sure how that would happen but theoretically if it did happen I'd expect some strange bugs like that animal's spawned owner.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I see the logic in this. I'm not sure if I agree or not.

As I looked into the unit statistics about the Visibility modifiers on the units, and it indeed can be possible that all of my units got enough invisibility points in the stack to be invisible to the Deer Rider. It is a marsh/peat bog plot which gives the units 2 invisibility points if I'm not mistaken.

I have two thoughts about this. One, I think it should be a little more refined, a little more fine grained. An Axeman gets the same amount of invisibility as the Elephant Rider which seems to me unrealistic. Two, the stack size should matter. A huge stack with lots of units should be much less invisible than a single unit.

I don't know how difficult would be to implement these game mechanics, but these could give some kind of solution to my problem.

And of course the H&S system is quite new to me, so I need to get used to it. Although it is quite fun to get these unexpected events.

One thing I can see in your game is an under-appreciation of the value of the standout status. If you're marching units like settlers around in the wilderness, having those intended to defend them set to standout or at least stealth defense is highly advisable! Otherwise you are risking the capture of the settler to a very low quality unit that doesn't see the defenders due to size or less vigilant units that don't see the defenders due to plot based camouflage.

I just committed a fix to your problem with the rams... it was as I had suspected... they were being captured as if they were helpless workers. I spotted the bug but now that I think of it, there may also be a problem with units being captured that can't even be seen by the capturing unit. I'll have to check on that right away...

I also adjusted camo values down on larger volume and size units, which only applies if you're playing with both H&S and SM of course. But it should make the system more intuitive for a player.

It looks like you're cat could see the attacker but in the first case it might've been either defeated or had to withdraw or something. I don't know... I adjusted the bug then looked at the save and that might've changed the outcome a bit.