very beg
Maybe make two versions, the first is the preservation of compatibility, the second without preservation of compatibility. Maybe in the second as a result of many of the restrictions are removed???
Single Player bugs and crashes v36 plus (SVN) - After the 24th of October 2015
- Thread starter Dancing Hoskuld
- Start date
- Status
very beg
Maybe make two versions, the first is the preservation of compatibility, the second without preservation of compatibility. Maybe in the second as a result of many of the restrictions are removed???
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
very beg
Maybe make two versions, the first is the preservation of compatibility, the second without preservation of compatibility. Maybe in the second as a result of many of the restrictions are removed???
You're lucky I'm finding some theories as to how to address this without destroying all savegame compatibility. Previously, the only theory was to do so which would of course mean that NO existing save, including this one, would play on future assets.
But I think I've got a method shaping up to resolve this problem anyhow. That said, it's crashing left and right to try it so I'm trying to figure out where THAT is taking place. This is not simple stuff.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
lol... yeah. Someday 
But in all seriousness, a REAL programmer would be able to create these processes. I'm just struggling to understand how they all work and why there are certain limitations.
EDIT: Ok, I sorted out a method that avoids the problem. I'm compiling the dll that fixes your game now. Will have it on the SVN shortly.
EDIT: The uncurable has twice been cured this week. Your game is good to go. Just update, recalc and play. In a few moments here you can anyhow.
But in all seriousness, a REAL programmer would be able to create these processes. I'm just struggling to understand how they all work and why there are certain limitations.
EDIT: Ok, I sorted out a method that avoids the problem. I'm compiling the dll that fixes your game now. Will have it on the SVN shortly.
EDIT: The uncurable has twice been cured this week. Your game is good to go. Just update, recalc and play. In a few moments here you can anyhow.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
also, let me know when u have ALOT of time to use your V2006 or what ever that is that u said in the discussion thread, i have 2 games, really really early that games were under 10 seconds, then all of a sudden went to around 1 minute in 1 turn, then i have a 2nd 1 also. . thx . . SO.. BUT only when ui have time . . .
chipper_30
Chieftain
Just to follow up on this, I tried deactivating the active defense option and it still crashed. But I tried loading the game on a different PC and it passed the turn (though it did crash once later on).
So the problem seems to be more related to my computer, maybe my good old steed isn't up for it anymore and needs an upgrade.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
I asked basically the same thing about Bandit footpads. T-brd answered your question and mine in this post. Right after 2nd quote to me.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=14121020&postcount=1040
@T-brd,
In that post of yours I've linked I stated Tamed Wolves, it's actually Wolf breeding pair. I did not realize at that time they were different. Tamed wolves don't have the problem I thought they did. And Wolf breeding pair is for a different purpose from DH.
JosEPh
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
K, well at least IMPO, that makes them useless then . . and i wont get the Mercenary build then any longer because of the +5 crime, i really didnt use them anyways, so really no biggy anyways, lol
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
By no means does it make them useless. Just makes them useless against barbarians. They're too friendly with each other.
However, they are quite strong at setting ambushes, spreading plot based crime, and invading neighbors during peacetime to ravage the countryside, pillaging as they go. They can take opponent cities FOR barbarians and you don't have to be at war with the opponent for them to do this. They can uproot forts held by opponents. Once a city has been converted to barbarian rule, you can then march in with real troops and take the city thereafter. Thus, they CAN be the speartip for a true peacetime invasion. You could, ironically, even use them to get a diplomatic bonus. Capture an opponent city then recapture it with your national units then liberate the city for the opponent the ruffians took it from.
The only thing they don't help with is in countering barbarians and during real warfare using them to take cities is only good if you don't want to try to defend the city afterwards but don't want to destroy it yet either.
One step to come here too... Warlords will be operating under the same principles.
So if you have a Warlord led ruffian army that captures a number of siege units like rams (and when captured they get Hidden Nationality due to being captured by an HN unit) along with some support from strike teams around the perimeter of the conflict, you could do a LOT of damage without suffering any diplomatic penalties to do so.
With Size Matters, none of these units can merge and are thus at a disadvantage against heavily merged opponent military units, but most ruffians are some of the few units that start off stronger than they would in the core. (Not with SM uncut of course.)
@Joe:
Thanks for clarifying! I was wondering what had become of that.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
:/ Not sure I like that idea. You only get 1 now afaik any more. And It has been a saving grace when you didn't get any Heroes and are behind in the tech race.
JosEPh
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Barbarians should be rather easily countered by other units. Warlords and other ruffians are always valid against player enemies.
lol... yeah. Someday
But in all seriousness, a REAL programmer would be able to create these processes. I'm just struggling to understand how they all work and why there are certain limitations.
EDIT: Ok, I sorted out a method that avoids the problem. I'm compiling the dll that fixes your game now. Will have it on the SVN shortly.
EDIT: The uncurable has twice been cured this week. Your game is good to go. Just update, recalc and play. In a few moments here you can anyhow.
9023 working
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
[250972.359] info type 'BUILDING_UNSANCTIONED_LOAN_SHARK' not found, Current XML file is: xml\GameInfo\CIV4PropertyInfos.xml
Also, current the largest civ is building waaaaaay to many "Bards" almost 8 in each of it largest cities(pic 1), also, why are there soooo many thief's and rogues in the largest civ, i thought WE had a limit of only 2 thief's, 2 Rogues etc etc, i found out they are building waaay more than that almost in each city?? Some have 5 rogues and 4 thief's in the largest city not counting the rest of the cities that ALSO have them??(pic2)
EDIT: Also just got python error when i clicked on the diplomacy area of the world builder for Red Cloud (Leader) (pic 3)
Only difference i can see is that the "Favorite religion line is missing, but that a NONE area??
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Should've been fixed by the last commit?
1) The entertainer units are either there quite legitimately to build up education, OR, the game was run and saved before some adjustments were made to get them to do this more appropiately. I'm wanting to review again though, just to make sure, but the code was showing the math was working as designed last I was looking.
2) Those criminals may not be his
If he's having trouble with crime this would be the result... barb criminals infesting his cities. If its that big a problem, perhaps something IS off with the prop ctrl evals still.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
WB is broken. It is an early version of Platyping's WB. Untangling it and putting in the latest (and cleanest code) is not easy. The easiest way may be going back to the SVN version before it was added and then merging in from there.
As for Bards I usually only need 1 or 2 in each city at that time to keep Education under control. However it is possible they are building them to build a number of buildings. At that game stage I build 6 at a time in all cities to build most of the "song and dance" buildings which can only be built by entertainers. The same goes when the story and stories lines of buildings become available. I think 30 in one city was about right then.
There is also the possibility that they are getting ready to go to war. Using a few (4) entertainers in a conquered city will remove the conquest anarchy and get the conquered city up and running. Although I try to only have 5 in my attack army as the unit can get promotions rather than be used up.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
We need new AIs for them to be trained for those latter 2 reasons, though they should attempt to build available buildings before being set to educate.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Most of those buildings can only be built by the entertainer units they can't be built by
mostly because some people complained about the number of buildings suddenly appearing in their cities, ie 500+ when you get the required tech.The AI should be fairly simple for the dance and story buildings, or is that straight forward, - if any of the buildings are available to the city then those buildings are also looked at for best build and if selected an entertainer unit that can build the building is built. The all entertainer would have to check to see if it can build any buildings first and then do the test to see which is best. This assumes that the the code is done with a function that takes a list of something and returns the best in the list for that city/leader.
(Wild Idea) The other option is something else entirely. Most of these buildings may fit under your "Ideas" idea, which has not been explained yet
, but could spread from one city to the next in the same way diseases do.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Exactly, which is one side-effect reason I've wanted to make it a priority to give them cause to build entertainers. This reminds me to check to make sure that prop contrl units do attempt to build available buildings though.Most of those buildings can only be built by the entertainer units they can't be built by
When manifest in a non-property control AI, and I'm going to also ensure the same for prop ctrl, they would make that a priority to do if at all available to do and the building they can build has value. However, until recently, the AI has had no programmed motivation to look to see if it could train any units that could provide it with otherwise inaccessible buildings. This was a weak point in the AI - and may still be... again... will have to ensure that prop ctrl units will attempt this if possible. I may have made a mental note to do that and never got to doing it when I thought I had.
If we want the AI to consider training these units specifically for the purpose of the unit's available builds, that would probably take a new AI setting. Not that this is a bad idea though.
Not so wild at all... quite what I had in mind actually. Units could help to hasten the spread purposefully but the spread would ALSO be organic in nature and potentially competitive with other ideas as well.(Wild Idea) The other option is something else entirely. Most of these buildings may fit under your "Ideas" idea, which has not been explained yet
It's just a few versions away from taking center development stage. GOT TO review and align these units first! Given that these reviews should include not only complete balancing and tag updating as well as ensuring excellent AI, it will be a while before I can spend time on more social projects.
However, I suppose it does fit into the scope of the review projects considering that units do play a role, but it's on the 'lower priority' civilian review stage which would nearly be last since our current combat AI sucks to the point it does.
EDIT: Yeah, they should be trying to construct any buildings they can before committing to most other activities. So it can be a benefit for the AI to think they need Entertainers for property control somewhere... will inspire them to start using those buildings - and since they do that first, they may keep building entertainers for the original cause being an education deficiency somewhere.
Keep in mind though that very large cities may need more than a few entertainers but once the buildings are all built I've not found it necessary to hold many (at times ANY) entertainers to stay on top of education... which is good. They shouldn't be as prolific as Law or Healer units.
EDIT: I have confirmed the math is working properly for setting all property units to build. Looking into other reasons why they may fail or overload. One thing... when an AI takes a step into a new era it may feel it needs educators suddenly. This could cause a temporary glut of them but once they have 'em this becomes less likely the next time they step into a new era because they'll be even more on top of things.
After further review of the code, I'd be very surprised if it isn't working exactly as designed. There is one glaring flaw I can see where cities that cannot be reached by the city building the prop ctrl unit may cause an overbuild. This would take some complex work to resolve I think. I'll have to consider how to isolate this... area specifications aren't enough and don't take the full picture into account. The problem clears up with air travel of course. And it is limited to how severe it can get. But still... something needs to be done about that.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
My "tales of.." unit can't move into Heliopolis to build its building. The only reason I can see is because there is an enemy thief in the city. I don't see how a thief could stop an idea from entering a city
I play with the Babylonian Empire. I attacking the Russians north of me. I have one large stack on the tile east from St. Petersburg and a second one south-east from my first stack. On the same tile as my first stack there is a hidden Atlatlist. On the tile north from my first stack there is a Deer Rider.
When I hit the End Turn button some strange thing happens.
First, my 8 Battering Rams from the first stack disappears into the thin air. I think the Atlatlist destroys them but I don't get any attacking animation, message, Event Log or Combat Log. If something like this happens I would like to know about it without extensive investigation, because at the first time I only noticed that my Battering Rams disappeared without any reason. It would be good to get a message which says a hidden enemy destroyed my units.
I know about the Atlatlist from two things. One - the next thing the Atlatlist does is attacking my second stack. It seems to be normal. Two - I reloaded the game a couple of times and in the world builder I saw that the Atlatlist is on the tile even before I step onto it with my stack. In my stack there is a Trained Cat which have strong modifiers to see camouflaged units. I thought the Cat should reveal the Atlatlist next to it. Maybe I was wrong.
Second, the Deer Rider attacks my second stack. It is strange because it can do it by going through my first stack. I think the Deer Rider should be able to attack only the first stack, because they are surrounded with mountains and the only way to my second stack leads through my first stack. Instead the Deer Rider steps onto the tile where my first stack is, and attacks my second stack.
The save was made with SVN 9023. A recalc doesn't solve it. I upgraded to SVN 9030 and the problem is still there.
The Options of my game:
No City Razing
No Vassal States
No Revolutions
Usable Mountains
Surround and Destroy
Advanced Diplomacy
Unlimited Wonders
No Zones of Control
Great Commanders
Personalized Map
Advanced Economy
Realistic Culture Spread
Larger Cities without Metropolitan Administration
Realistic Corporations
Religion Decay
Advanced Espionage
Modern Corporations
Advanced Nukes
Infinite XP
Pure Traits
Developing Leaders
Focused Traits
C2C Combat Mod - Fight or Flight
Minimum City Border
Assigned Specialists XP
Teleport Hunting Awards
C2C Combat Mod - Hide and Seek
BUG Options besides the default settings:
General tab
-Inverse Shift on queueing
Caveman2Cosmos tab
-Name Cities after nearly Landmarks
-Ignore alerts from Disabled Buildings
-Multiple Religion Spread
-Terrain Damage
When I hit the End Turn button some strange thing happens.
First, my 8 Battering Rams from the first stack disappears into the thin air. I think the Atlatlist destroys them but I don't get any attacking animation, message, Event Log or Combat Log. If something like this happens I would like to know about it without extensive investigation, because at the first time I only noticed that my Battering Rams disappeared without any reason. It would be good to get a message which says a hidden enemy destroyed my units.
I know about the Atlatlist from two things. One - the next thing the Atlatlist does is attacking my second stack. It seems to be normal. Two - I reloaded the game a couple of times and in the world builder I saw that the Atlatlist is on the tile even before I step onto it with my stack. In my stack there is a Trained Cat which have strong modifiers to see camouflaged units. I thought the Cat should reveal the Atlatlist next to it. Maybe I was wrong.
Second, the Deer Rider attacks my second stack. It is strange because it can do it by going through my first stack. I think the Deer Rider should be able to attack only the first stack, because they are surrounded with mountains and the only way to my second stack leads through my first stack. Instead the Deer Rider steps onto the tile where my first stack is, and attacks my second stack.
The save was made with SVN 9023. A recalc doesn't solve it. I upgraded to SVN 9030 and the problem is still there.
The Options of my game:
No City Razing
No Vassal States
No Revolutions
Usable Mountains
Surround and Destroy
Advanced Diplomacy
Unlimited Wonders
No Zones of Control
Great Commanders
Personalized Map
Advanced Economy
Realistic Culture Spread
Larger Cities without Metropolitan Administration
Realistic Corporations
Religion Decay
Advanced Espionage
Modern Corporations
Advanced Nukes
Infinite XP
Pure Traits
Developing Leaders
Focused Traits
C2C Combat Mod - Fight or Flight
Minimum City Border
Assigned Specialists XP
Teleport Hunting Awards
C2C Combat Mod - Hide and Seek
BUG Options besides the default settings:
General tab
-Inverse Shift on queueing
Caveman2Cosmos tab
-Name Cities after nearly Landmarks
-Ignore alerts from Disabled Buildings
-Multiple Religion Spread
-Terrain Damage
- Status
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