JFD
Kathigitarkh
Thanks. I appreciate it.
Slavery Mod
- Thread starter Leugi
- Start date
Ekmek
on steam: ekmek_e
I've been wondering if Slaves should not be units but instead only be specialists. But I would make it that in the early eras that the only way you get production is by using slave citizens (or the occasional engineer) and i would cut production from mines until the industrial age (maybe even make mines a resource only improvement until the industrial era).
just some thoughts.
GutFeeling
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2013
- Messages
- 33
This looks like a really amazing mod! On the idea of Wonders providing slaves -- wouldn't the logical choice be the Pyramids? It was famously built on the backs of slaves. This is actually the reason I want to create a simple mod to rename the "Liberty" tree to something like "Expansionism." Since slaves seem rather powerful, maybe the Pyramids could give only one slave instead of two workers, or two slaves but lose the bonus to improvement production speed (my personal preference).
Another idea: maybe find a way (through a belief, or a policy) to thematically link slaves and the plantation improvement? Besides the Pyramids, probably the most famous example of slavery in history was in the southern United States before the Civil War.
Also, I think you mentioned giving Autocracy the ability to build a concentration camp building. I really like this idea -- but I'm not sure if it needs to be tied to slavery, maybe save it for a later project -- but I should point out that the United States famously built its own concentration camps to house Japanese citizens during World War II. And the communists had gulags.
Also, this mod ties in nicely with an idea that's been floating around my head -- a mod that makes it more feasible to run dystopic (ie, unhappy) civilizations. I mean, the expansion is named after the novel Brave New World! Greatly reduce the penalty to city growth, perhaps find a way to disable city-flipping from unhappiness, and emphasize uprisings as the main drawback to running a dystopic civilization. Ideas I've had.
I'd love to test this mod and do research on slavery to come up with more ideas. I consider you one of the more talented Civ V modders out there, especially with your gorgeous art assets and very unique ideas for mechanics.
EDIT: Here's some quick thoughts after briefly reading a rundown on slavery's history on Wikipedia: Slavery has been around since ancient times. I don't know if you should unlock the slave market with one of your very first techs, but unlocking it in that era seems appropriate. I disagree with moving it to the Classical Era. I think giving Order (which I think of as communism) engineers or better workers instead of slaves is perhaps the wrong idea. As I mentioned before, the Soviet Union had an infamous system of gulags in which people were brutally worked to death. Someone suggested using gold to mitigate the expansion of slavery, and I think that doesn't reflect history very accurately -- historically, slavery was a huge source of wealth to the people in power -- a foundation to the entire economic system. As far as religion and slavery go: Perhaps make pantheon beliefs that benefit slavery but later beliefs such as reformation beliefs mitigate slavery? For example, Christianity generally supported slavery in its earliest years but centuries later was used to condemn it. Perhaps add a reformation belief that allows you to convert opposing civ's slaves into your own freed workers, similar to the barbarian conversion belief. Also, several African religions did not survive slavery. Perhaps a slave market could make null the effect of a foreign religion's pantheon belief in that city? Another idea re- slavery and religion: Perhaps make Cathedrals (the best religious building for the cultural player, which seems like the strategy that should be most opposed to slavery) impose a penalty on slave production in the cities they are in. Also, concerning my earlier suggestion about a link between slaves and plantations, slaves definitely have had a strong historical connection to plantations across all of history, so I feel some sort of thematic link is appropriate. I just don't know what.
Two more ideas: What if slaves could run away as freedmen to civilizations that are happier and have cultural influence? What if you could sell slaves to City-States or other civilizations for gold and influence somewhat like a weaker version of the Great Merchant?
ANOTHER EDIT: Unfortunately I am not going to have the time to help test this mod as I want to, but after loading it up tonight I can give you a very brief bug report.
Bug: Workers appear twice in the list of units to produce. Workers appear twice in the Civilopedia. This is the main bug.
Bug: Numerous spelling/grammatical errors in the Civilopedia, and it's obvious your source for historical info was Wikipedia, as I just came from there. I could perhaps help you write better Civilopedia entries at a later date.
Bug: As I understand, the slave specialist is supposed to be red, but in his Civilopedia entry he appears as the "empty slot" color.
Another idea: maybe find a way (through a belief, or a policy) to thematically link slaves and the plantation improvement? Besides the Pyramids, probably the most famous example of slavery in history was in the southern United States before the Civil War.
Also, I think you mentioned giving Autocracy the ability to build a concentration camp building. I really like this idea -- but I'm not sure if it needs to be tied to slavery, maybe save it for a later project -- but I should point out that the United States famously built its own concentration camps to house Japanese citizens during World War II. And the communists had gulags.
Also, this mod ties in nicely with an idea that's been floating around my head -- a mod that makes it more feasible to run dystopic (ie, unhappy) civilizations. I mean, the expansion is named after the novel Brave New World! Greatly reduce the penalty to city growth, perhaps find a way to disable city-flipping from unhappiness, and emphasize uprisings as the main drawback to running a dystopic civilization. Ideas I've had.
I'd love to test this mod and do research on slavery to come up with more ideas. I consider you one of the more talented Civ V modders out there, especially with your gorgeous art assets and very unique ideas for mechanics.
EDIT: Here's some quick thoughts after briefly reading a rundown on slavery's history on Wikipedia: Slavery has been around since ancient times. I don't know if you should unlock the slave market with one of your very first techs, but unlocking it in that era seems appropriate. I disagree with moving it to the Classical Era. I think giving Order (which I think of as communism) engineers or better workers instead of slaves is perhaps the wrong idea. As I mentioned before, the Soviet Union had an infamous system of gulags in which people were brutally worked to death. Someone suggested using gold to mitigate the expansion of slavery, and I think that doesn't reflect history very accurately -- historically, slavery was a huge source of wealth to the people in power -- a foundation to the entire economic system. As far as religion and slavery go: Perhaps make pantheon beliefs that benefit slavery but later beliefs such as reformation beliefs mitigate slavery? For example, Christianity generally supported slavery in its earliest years but centuries later was used to condemn it. Perhaps add a reformation belief that allows you to convert opposing civ's slaves into your own freed workers, similar to the barbarian conversion belief. Also, several African religions did not survive slavery. Perhaps a slave market could make null the effect of a foreign religion's pantheon belief in that city? Another idea re- slavery and religion: Perhaps make Cathedrals (the best religious building for the cultural player, which seems like the strategy that should be most opposed to slavery) impose a penalty on slave production in the cities they are in. Also, concerning my earlier suggestion about a link between slaves and plantations, slaves definitely have had a strong historical connection to plantations across all of history, so I feel some sort of thematic link is appropriate. I just don't know what.
Two more ideas: What if slaves could run away as freedmen to civilizations that are happier and have cultural influence? What if you could sell slaves to City-States or other civilizations for gold and influence somewhat like a weaker version of the Great Merchant?
ANOTHER EDIT: Unfortunately I am not going to have the time to help test this mod as I want to, but after loading it up tonight I can give you a very brief bug report.
Bug: Workers appear twice in the list of units to produce. Workers appear twice in the Civilopedia. This is the main bug.
Bug: Numerous spelling/grammatical errors in the Civilopedia, and it's obvious your source for historical info was Wikipedia, as I just came from there. I could perhaps help you write better Civilopedia entries at a later date.
Bug: As I understand, the slave specialist is supposed to be red, but in his Civilopedia entry he appears as the "empty slot" color.
Hu Leugi
Just thought I'd test this with BNW. Never got really far, but I did see one minor thing (that may not appear using G&K alone).
When activated the following error occurs in database.log:
[2493.457] no such column: Type
It seems to be from line 17 in SQL\SlaveArtDefines.sql
\Skodkim
Just thought I'd test this with BNW. Never got really far, but I did see one minor thing (that may not appear using G&K alone).
When activated the following error occurs in database.log:
[2493.457] no such column: Type
It seems to be from line 17 in SQL\SlaveArtDefines.sql
\Skodkim
@skodkim: The mod is likely to generate huge issues on the city-view screen too because it replaced that one in G&K...
@GutFeeling: If you want to write be my guest haha... a Civilization 5 Modpack named "Dystopia" could be interesting too haha... And yeah, I have too many issues in the civilopedia it seems
Sorry for the lack of updates, I just got back to university from vacation so my time has been severely reduced...
@GutFeeling: If you want to write be my guest haha... a Civilization 5 Modpack named "Dystopia" could be interesting too haha... And yeah, I have too many issues in the civilopedia it seems
Sorry for the lack of updates, I just got back to university from vacation so my time has been severely reduced...
GutFeeling
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2013
- Messages
- 33
Ah, you're doing university! That's exactly the same reason why I can't help test this mod as thoroughly as I want to, ha ha. I have done a couple partial quick games using it with BNW, and it works well, but there are definitely quirks. I have a list of bugs I found you might want to address. I'll post them next chance I get. I hope it's helpful -- testing the mod was/is fun! I felt like a QA tester.
GutFeeling
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2013
- Messages
- 33
Okay, here's a list of the few more bugs I have discovered so far. It's not long. I realized my first couple bugs that I posted earlier kind of picked on your Civilopedia entries -- sorry! Didn't mean for it to come off like that.
I'm playing w/ Brave New World. Is this mod not fully compatible? I just noticed you specified this as a G&K mod.
Bug: Captured an enemy worker, the game notified me it became a slave, but it remained a Worker -- albeit one that worked faster than a regular one (Note: When I captured a worker from Barbarians and decided to keep it, it correctly appeared as a slave).
Bug: Slave Prison lists the number of "Slave Slots" as 5 in the tooltip but in fact there are 3.
Bug: Settler's production cost not appearing in tooltip in City View.
I'm playing w/ Brave New World. Is this mod not fully compatible? I just noticed you specified this as a G&K mod.
Bug: Captured an enemy worker, the game notified me it became a slave, but it remained a Worker -- albeit one that worked faster than a regular one (Note: When I captured a worker from Barbarians and decided to keep it, it correctly appeared as a slave).
Bug: Slave Prison lists the number of "Slave Slots" as 5 in the tooltip but in fact there are 3.
Bug: Settler's production cost not appearing in tooltip in City View.
JoeyFandango
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2013
- Messages
- 25
I'm glad someone finally modded this, since Firaxis are too busy being politically correct to be historically accurate (I'm sure that in a near future, North American history books will ommit slavery and many other things altogether, in their new-found drive to re-write historical and scientifical fact as a Barbie and Ken fairytale with a facebook-compliant, integration-conformant, sex-indiscriminated, ecology-friendly and pro-vegetarian Hollywood finale).
Besides historical accuracy, it's of course also welcome as an early-mid game optional mechanism to help out with the economy and production. It really should have been included in the default game.
Thank you, Leugi ! Hope you or someone else can continue the good work and iron out the bugs mentioned above and make it fully compatible with BNW if it's not already (?).
Besides historical accuracy, it's of course also welcome as an early-mid game optional mechanism to help out with the economy and production. It really should have been included in the default game.
Thank you, Leugi ! Hope you or someone else can continue the good work and iron out the bugs mentioned above and make it fully compatible with BNW if it's not already (?).
Well, not already, there are some nice changes planned for BNW, but I hadn't had the chance for updating yet as my time has been severely reduced as I'm no longer in vacations. Still, I've been thinking how to make each change, so yeah I hope to have an update by the beginning of October.
JoeyFandango
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2013
- Messages
- 25
You know, studying or working too much is bad for your health. I think you should really take a break and update this mod. Think about your health. 
well, its not like all I'm doing is working or studying... An update may come soon, as I'm finishing to think over what the changes will be... Both Slavery and Exploration will be getting a fancy overhaul. In terms of slavery though, I'd reccommend following JFD's Sovereignity.
killmeplease
Mk Z on Steam
Hi Leugi, great work you've done 
I was thinking about slavery mod earlier and made a slave uint which can hurry, but the project stopped as i didnt manage to get the AI to use slaves to hurry production. Now when I have discovered a partial solution and resumed work, I came to this forum and bam! i see your thread..
May I use your graphics (slave unit and flag) in my mod? full credit to you OFC
btw, have you solved the problem of hurrying buildings by the AI? I had given slaves UNITAI_ENGINEER hoping they would rush buildings but they didnt do this. Slaves used to roam AIs territory senselessly.. (maybe they wanted to build manufactory?)
I was thinking about slavery mod earlier and made a slave uint which can hurry, but the project stopped as i didnt manage to get the AI to use slaves to hurry production. Now when I have discovered a partial solution and resumed work, I came to this forum and bam! i see your thread..
May I use your graphics (slave unit and flag) in my mod? full credit to you OFC
btw, have you solved the problem of hurrying buildings by the AI? I had given slaves UNITAI_ENGINEER hoping they would rush buildings but they didnt do this. Slaves used to roam AIs territory senselessly.. (maybe they wanted to build manufactory?)
killmeplease
Mk Z on Steam
GutFeeling, It's a common misconception that pyramids were built by slaves. they were built by seasonal workers (peasants). slavery played a minor role in egypt upon the whole.
imo the radio tech shouldnt bring an end to slavery as there were nazis and communists who used slave labor in most brutal form in 20th century, and there are many people who live in slavery around the world even nowdays.
i like the ideology effects idea, maybe
Abolitionism (freedom): enemy slave units join your army as weaker (of earlier era) units when get into your sight (and get free Morale promotion); +50% tourism vs civs using slaves; cant use slaves.
Ostarbeiters (autocracy): get slaves on city capture, # proportional to city size; chanse to get a slave upon defeating an enemy unit, proportional to its health before the combat (so if it had 100% health, encircled and killed in 1 attack you get a guaranteed slave).
Gulag Archipelago (order): free slave prison in every city (yours too) which is 15 tiles from capital; OR - can build slaves, growth is halted just like for settler production
ps i have an idea of how to improve the unit appearance: add supervisors (2 Warrior figures)
imo the radio tech shouldnt bring an end to slavery as there were nazis and communists who used slave labor in most brutal form in 20th century, and there are many people who live in slavery around the world even nowdays.
i like the ideology effects idea, maybe
Abolitionism (freedom): enemy slave units join your army as weaker (of earlier era) units when get into your sight (and get free Morale promotion); +50% tourism vs civs using slaves; cant use slaves.
Ostarbeiters (autocracy): get slaves on city capture, # proportional to city size; chanse to get a slave upon defeating an enemy unit, proportional to its health before the combat (so if it had 100% health, encircled and killed in 1 attack you get a guaranteed slave).
Gulag Archipelago (order): free slave prison in every city (yours too) which is 15 tiles from capital; OR - can build slaves, growth is halted just like for settler production
ps i have an idea of how to improve the unit appearance: add supervisors (2 Warrior figures)
Fatheredpuma81
Chieftain
Alrighteous! I've been working on an interesting idea in order to allow some sort of Slavery into the game... Still on a Beta level, testing will be appreciated, specially for suggestions and balance issues... Click on the Chart Image to download:
Features:
- New Elements:
- Slave Worker: A special Slave unit, which may not be produced through normal means. The slave has faster work rate than the normal worker, and may be expended to rush production in a city. However, it adds
Unhappiness, and its health drops each turn.
- Slave Prison (Building): May only be built on
Occupied cities. It has 3 Slave Slots, which allow generation toward Slave Workers. May not be built if a Courthouse is built and doesnt remove
- Slave (Citizen): Yields +3
Production, and +2
Gold. Works towards generation of Slave Workers.
- How to get Slaves?
- The main way of getting slaves is by conquering a city. Once you conquer a city you may be able of building a Slave Prison, and then use Slave Citizens. Using Slave Citizens will work towards generating Slave Workers.
This way you can assure yourself to get Slaves, at the price of unhappiness, however. You may sell the Slave Prison if you want to switch to a Courthouse.- Another way is capturing another players Settlers or Workers. Instead of becoming simply workers, they become Slaves.
- More ways of getting slaves are planned for future releases.
- How to free or stop using Slaves?
- If you own a Slave Prison, you may sell it. Once you do, build a Courthouse and stop thinking about slaves and their Unhappiness.
- If you are at war with an enemy, and capture their Slave, you will technically free him, transforming him into a Worker. Freed Workers work faster than normal workers but slower than Slaves.
- You may also upgrade a Slave to a Worker with gold. This requires a costy sum of gold however.
- After researching Radio, you will lose the benefits of the Slave Prison.
Screenshots:
Spoiler :
TODO LIST:
- Find a way of changing the Worker adquired from bullying a city-state to a Slave.
- Find ways for AI to make use of Slaves (they mostly puppet cities, so...)
- Find ways of making AI hate you more if you use Slaves? Maybe?
- Add Slaves to some policies and/or Wonders
- Find a way of changing the "A Slave was born" notification, to make it a bit less happy than the Great Person notification, and using another sound...
- (Post BNW) See if a World Congress resolution banning Slaves is possible to mod.
May I that you please get it so somehow you can purchase a slave from other civs? Like it removes 1 from their population for like 500 gold if friendly 1000 gold if not really friendly?
I'm working on a BNW update for the Slavery system (fully integrated with Sukritact's E&D), a bunch of things will change and be added so it'll take some time. However, I'm sure you'll enjoy the BNW version a lot, as it will indeed, be a bit more polished.
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