Small Observations General Thread (things not worth separate threads)

[Zaarin]

I get that the islands are supposed to represent the Canaries, Azores, Cape Verde, Bermuda, etc.--but all of those island chains are pretty small IRL. I like them as a gameplay mechanic, though.

 

[AriochIV]

I guess the gameplay is more important than the aesthetics of the map, but it would be nice if they looked less GRRMartinish.

 

[chaosprophet]

I think a possible problem with the current map generator is that it, even with different map types it seems like they divide the map in two big rectangles, side by side, with enough ocean between the two so you can't reach nor see anything on that side, and then generate a map type (continent, many continents, archipelago, etc) inside each, one for homeland and one for distant lands. While it would look more natural if the are for each of the two parts of the map could come in many different shapes.

 

[Sagax]

I wonder if it’s the direct result of the age constraints that they put themselves in.

1. They have to make cross-ocean exploration impossible until Exploration, by preventing the map script from ever generating a shallow water path to Distant Lands.

2. A the same time, they have to add some islands between the landmasses, so that early Exploration navy can have a pit-stop to repair deep-ocean damage.

This is one of my major issues with the game at the moment. I don’t know if there is a way to generate more elaborate maps without breaking their fundamental age rules. If this stays as is, then I’ll sorely miss the interesting maps we used to get from Fractal and Shuffle. I know they mentioned one of them as present in the game, but I doubt it will be the same.

 

[pokiehl]

I wonder if it’s the direct result of the age constraints that they put themselves in.

1. They have to make cross-ocean exploration impossible until Exploration, by preventing the map script from ever generating a shallow water path to Distant Lands.

2. A the same time, they have to add some islands between the landmasses, so that early Exploration navy can have a pit-stop to repair deep-ocean damage.

This is one of my major issues with the game at the moment. I don’t know if there is a way to generate more elaborate maps without breaking their fundamental age rules. If this stays as is, then I’ll sorely miss the interesting maps we used to get from Fractal and Shuffle. I know they mentioned one of them as present in the game, but I doubt it will be the same.

If there’s one aspect of the game I hope they really spend time tweaking to get better and better, it’s map scripts.

Maybe you’re right that the constraints of the Exploration Age present a challenge.

However, I also think this presents a great opportunity for flexibility and creativity in map gen
(how could would it be if we could select totally separate map scripts for Starting Lands and Distant Lands?!)

 

[Zaarin]

(how could would it be if we could select totally separate map scripts for Starting Lands and Distant Lands?!)

Didn't they allude to this in the Exploration Age stream?

 

[pokiehl]

Didn't they allude to this in the Exploration Age stream?

I haven’t been able to catch any of the streams unfortunately… I’d love it if you were right! Do you remember the gist of what they said?

 

[Zaarin]

I haven’t been able to catch any of the streams unfortunately… I’d love it if you were right! Do you remember the gist of what they said?

From memory, they mentioned there were several different map types with different options for Distant Lands and Starting Lands. I recall they mentioned the script they were using created a standard continent for Starting Lands but a much more chaotic setting for Distant Lands with lots of lakes and inlets. I believe they also mentioned an Archipelago-style setting.

 

[Sagax]

From memory, they mentioned there were several different map types with different options for Distant Lands and Starting Lands. I recall they mentioned the script they were using created a standard continent for Starting Lands but a much more chaotic setting for Distant Lands with lots of lakes and inlets. I believe they also mentioned an Archipelago-style setting.

That’s not exactly how I understood Ed’s statement, but I’ll leave the timestamp here for folks to interpret:

(and if this explanation is reliable, then the weird island chains seem to be mainly a thing for Continents+)

 

[AriochIV]

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[Boris Gudenuf]

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View attachment 712698

On the one hand, they've left the polar regions clear for sailing, which avoids a major frustration in Civs V and VI - although this may be a feature only of 'test cases' they are showing pre-release.

Second hand, they've got a fair number of islands between the two continental masses to make deep ocean exploration a bit easier.

On the last hand, what appears to be the 'original' continent is a wretched Block of land with none of the interest I would hope for: where are the inland seas, capes, major bays and islands-part-of-the-continent? Where's any analog of Britain, or Normandy, the Aegean islands, the Mediterranean or Caspian or Black Seas or Constantinopolis' magnificent position astride two 'inland' bodies of water?

Major Bummer, unless this map was simply 'artificially' generated for the video. Let's hope . . .

 

[ggmoyang]

It looks like Marines don't replace generic melee infantry.
And there's Marine icon in Armor tech, I think marines could be upgraded with the tech. (I believe UU upgrading within an age was mentioned in one of the earlier articles)
If that's the case, will UU model change with the upgrade? What we saw in the stream looked like WW2-era marine and it would be bit weird to have them in same age with industrial age 'rifle infantry'

 

[Krikkit1]

View attachment 712761
It looks like Marines don't replace generic melee infantry.
And there's Marine icon in Armor tech, I think marines could be upgraded with the tech. (I believe UU upgrading within an age was mentioned in one of the earlier articles)
If that's the case, will UU model change with the upgrade? What we saw in the stream looked like WW2-era marine and it would be bit weird to have them in same age with industrial age 'rifle infantry'

The Marines might still be an Infantry Replacement, The tech tree tooltips might not be fully set to adjust properly for civ uniques (ie they might show the unique but not remove the replacement in that build)

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

The Marines might still be an Infantry Replacement, The tech tree tooltips might not be fully set to adjust properly for civ uniques (ie they might show the unique but not remove the replacement in that build)

this means generic options is shown first, unique replacements show last.

 

[thecrazyscot]

On the one hand, they've left the polar regions clear for sailing, which avoids a major frustration in Civs V and VI - although this may be a feature only of 'test cases' they are showing pre-release.

Second hand, they've got a fair number of islands between the two continental masses to make deep ocean exploration a bit easier.

On the last hand, what appears to be the 'original' continent is a wretched Block of land with none of the interest I would hope for: where are the inland seas, capes, major bays and islands-part-of-the-continent? Where's any analog of Britain, or Normandy, the Aegean islands, the Mediterranean or Caspian or Black Seas or Constantinopolis' magnificent position astride two 'inland' bodies of water?

Major Bummer, unless this map was simply 'artificially' generated for the video. Let's hope . . .

Crossing all my fingers and toes that map script refinement is simply scheduled for late development time. It would make sense, as once you have the basic framework for how the map generates continents you can then add in all the logic for making those continents interesting at a later point.

 

[chaosprophet]

....

View attachment 712698

Yeah, that example is what I mean with it seems like they separate the world map in two half sized rectangular maps for the distant lands and homelands, and generate a map in each.

It will probably work better when they make it so the division between two sizes can be something more randomized than an horizontal line allowing for more diverse half's for each part of the map to be generated inside like here?

Of course these aren't perfect same amount of space as I'm not good at this but shouldn't be hard to make a program that generate many of these with same amount of tiles in each half.

I'm not sure how complicate it could end up being, though. For example, I can see their map generators being made to work in rectangles as that was how every civ map always been.

 

[AriochIV]

I'm less bothered by the map being divided into two rectangles than I am with the shocking lack of diversity in the landmasses... both hemispheres have EXACTLY the same configuration of a continent and a vertical line of islands.

 

[pokiehl]

I'm less bothered by the map being divided into two rectangles than I am with the shocking lack of diversity in the landmasses... both hemispheres have EXACTLY the same configuration of a continent and a vertical line of islands.

I think that is in fact the point of that particular map script (Continents Plus): have the sides be similar in composition.

There are other options if you want the 2 hemispheres to be different (Terra Incognita for example).

The real bother to me is that the continents are fairly boring “blobs” again like in Civ 6. I think they should be less “regular” shaped so that more interesting features like bays can form.

 

[Trengilly]

I think that is in fact the point of that particular map script (Continents Plus): have the sides be similar in composition.

There are other options if you want the 2 hemispheres to be different (Terra Incognita for example).

The real bother to me is that the continents are fairly boring “blobs” again like in Civ 6. I think they should be less “regular” shaped so that more interesting features like bays can form.

Yeah, I'm not loving the rectangular blobs for continents.

These maps also look really predictable with the island chains.

When Exploration Age starts I don't want to be able to immediately guess what I will find . . . heck I hope there are paths where you don't find land in time and risk you ships sinking.

Hopefully the different map scripts will provide more variety . . . and its unclear what size maps they were playing with.

 

[chaosprophet]

Yeah, I'm not loving the rectangular blobs for continents.

These maps also look really predictable with the island chains.

When Exploration Age starts I don't want to be able to immediately guess what I will find . . . heck I hope there are paths where you don't find land in time and risk you ships sinking.

Hopefully the different map scripts will provide more variety . . . and its unclear what size maps they were playing with.

That problem can also be reduced by having a good randomize map options where they really pick some interesting variations of homeland and distant land maps without the player knowing beforehand what type it will be.