So...is it worth trying to watch the Game of Thrones series?

[metatron]

So while, ordinarily, I'd say that the portrayal of rape and sexual violence against women is not a priori hands-off, and it can be done (if not tastefully) in a way that has meaning and power (see: Stieg Larsson), it does give me some pause to contemplate the argument that he included it just because it's historical. Well, bull-freaking-crap. History ain't got no place here. History has been flayed and beaten and painted over. This is Martin-land. So if there's too much violence against women, history can't be to blame.

Well, as you know that i have nothing but open doors for you regarding your comment on history.

Regarding the whole "it's in there because it's historical" argument. Yeah, of course that's silly.
The justification for it to be in there is that it matters to us today, not because it's historical.
I understood that tangent of the debate to be implicitly about... well... if it didn't belong there, if it was put it in for shock value or for more nakedness sells, then there'd be a case.
But since it actually caused serious debate of these issues in all sorts of media commonly considered serious, it's hard to argue that it could not have been intended as social commentary on the present.

 

[NovaKart]

I just read an article on the places where GOT is/was filmed: Malta, Croatia, Morocco, Iceland and Northern Ireland.

http://www.salon.com/2014/04/29/the..._real_world_places_partner/?source=newsletter

 

[Crezth]

@meta: I'll agree on that much, and I give Martin the benefit of the doubt on not being a creeper who writes rape into his stories for the hell of it.

 

[Mise]

Well, as you know that i have nothing but open doors for you regarding your comment on history.

Regarding the whole "it's in there because it's historical" argument. Yeah, of course that's silly.
The justification for it to be in there is that it matters to us today, not because it's historical.
I understood that tangent of the debate to be implicitly about... well... if it didn't belong there, if it was put it in for shock value or for more nakedness sells, then there'd be a case.
But since it actually caused serious debate of these issues in all sorts of media commonly considered serious, it's hard to argue that it could not have been intended as social commentary on the present.

Good point well made. I'm going to fit this into my framework in future.

 

[Gucumatz]

That and I think the actress' visuals are also messed up. Sansa was supposed to really young (and stunningly beautiful), but they get the tallest woman they can find? I also just don't like her face.

So people's complaints about Sansa are basically she's too tall... and too whiny?

I haven't read the books admittedly yet, but considering what she's been through and the fact that she is afterall still a young girl whose been caught up in the game of thrones and been subject to quite a bit - it's surprising and a testament that she isn't "whiny" all the time, like you would expect any girl her age to be in real life. I wouldn't consider a young girl dealing with the constant loss of her family (still expecting more Stark deaths) and Joffrey and now Littlefinger and expressing her emotions once in a blue moon as whiny.

And the too tall thing? That's like a complaint about Hugh Jackman/Wolverine instead of the actor. The actor playing her started off young but like all the other child actors they kind of grew up...

 

[Terxpahseyton]

She always was tall. And she was unlikeable before any of the stuff happened you mentioned.

 

[Gucumatz]

Unlikeable for being a girl who had no idea about the world? I think a better word would be naive. Just because you can read her thought processes, doesn't really make her any different from the many young naive people in life either - and I don't think you dislike every naive person you meet in real life

 

[Kyriakos]

By now the only character i like is Locke

But just due to that one scene, obviously.

Oh, and also the line: "We only have one bear"

 

[Terxpahseyton]

You can be naive without being superficial. She wasn't portrayed as such. Saying it is not her nativity. Of course I don't dislike nativity. It keeps enough people from turning into less likable people as long as it lasts. But your values can still be off from my POV.

 

[Gucumatz]

Oh dear me, a teenage girl being superficial? The shock - I think I'll have to sit down. For someone that age (and well a highborn/rich person in life) the two often go hand in hand. Things change when they finally get a taste of the world like Sansa has

 

[Gucumatz]

By now the only character i like is Locke

But just due to that one scene, obviously.

Oh, and also the line: "We only have one bear"

Wait, so you have been watching the show?

 

[Kyriakos]

Wait, so you have been watching the show?

Not yet, only around 10 + short videos on youtube. Mostly from seasons 1&2 though.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

I don't see the relevance of you being shocked or not.
And what you don't seem to see is that here state of mind before and after the "incidents" are inter-connected. Part of a larger personality string of annoyance.

 

[Gucumatz]

I guess I can understand someone being annoyed at a teenage girl. But hate for it? Seems a bit much

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Er, yeah. I agree?

 

[Gucumatz]

Not yet, only around 10 + short videos on youtube. Mostly from seasons 1&2 though.

"Short" videos. If anything you have probably watched more than several tv episodes worth of time. Just get on with it and start watching the show

 

[Kyriakos]

^Hmmm probably something like 1 1/2 - 2 episodes at most (and i watched those not now but in the course of 3-4 months while i was looking into the series from YT).

I suppose i will try to watch the first season at some point

 

[BvBPL]

I really can't see how rape is portrayed as the agent of change. To me, it's simply portraying Daenerys as a strong character. She's strong, she's always been strong, she overcame a traumatic event by being strong (character-wise), and she continues to use her strength of character grow stronger and stronger materially.

Permit me to outline her early character arc.

Daenerys is not strong at the start of the show. At the start she's a middling fool who can barely speak in complete sentences. She does not seem to have any personal, internal motivation that is not imposed upon her by other parties, most notably her brother.

Then she gets raped.

After her rape, she learns about sex and has an epiphany that she can use sex to manipulate Drogan. That gives her confidence.

Then Drogan dies and she is thrust to into a position of authority. She rises to the occasion, in part again by using sex as a weapon.

Her confidence, her strength is only evidenced after and as a consequence of the rape. It was not previous in apparent. The subtext of this sequence is that her rape served as the catalyst for her strength.

 

[metatron]

No.
See: My previous post.

The rape plays a minor role, sure. And her relationship with Drogo is somewhat relevant even at the beginning.
But it's the interaction with the other Dothrakis, particularly her guards and handmaidens, on one hand and Visery on the other that makes her grow, gain self-respect, assert herself etc.
Initially. Later the relatonship with Drogo increases in relevance.

 

[Zack]

Permit me to outline her early character arc.

Daenerys is not strong at the start of the show. At the start she's a middling fool who can barely speak in complete sentences. She does not seem to have any personal, internal motivation that is not imposed upon her by other parties, most notably her brother.

Then she gets raped.

After her rape, she learns about sex and has an epiphany that she can use sex to manipulate Drogan. That gives her confidence.

Then Drogan dies and she is thrust to into a position of authority. She rises to the occasion, in part again by using sex as a weapon.

Her confidence, her strength is only evidenced after and as a consequence of the rape. It was not previous in apparent. The subtext of this sequence is that her rape served as the catalyst for her strength.

"Drogan" ? What show you watching?