madviking
north american scum
bruh i know kids who took bc calc as freshman
So whats is really wrong with standardized tests?
- Thread starter Archbob
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hangman
almost-scientist
I saw a third grader at a statewide math tournament who was in Algebra I at the time. He got fourth place in 2006 terrorized everyone who dared to show up the subsequent years.
(See: Scott Wu)
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
A lot of the students in my program were actually from other countries (China, India).. and a lot of the kids who excelled in math at my highschool were either immigrants or "nerds" who did a lot of extra work outside of school to begin with. My aunt (who is a highschool math teacher here in Canada) says that a lot of the math students in her classes are just "math stupid", not ready for university level math at all, with a couple minor exceptions here and there - the people who end up going into math at University.
Of course that is just her complaining about her job and the general negativity you get with highschool students, and of course this is all anecdotal, so take it for what it's worth. But according to my parents, who in Poland were math and physics teachers - math standards in communist Poland and modern day Canada were very different - but things could have changed a lot since. (Although according to my aunt standards here in Canada have gone down, not up)
Zack
99% hot gas
I took it in the womb.
madviking
north american scum
Zkribbler
Deity
You forget that both Reagan and Bush coupled this with increased spending. This method didn't work either.
Luckily, "deficits don't matter" ... unless there's a Democrat in the White House.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
Yes and that made the SAT valuable.
Goodfella
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madviking
north american scum
i know
Goodfella
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There are probably a fair number of school districts with programs or accelerated tracks capable of producing students who are competitive with their international counterparts. Granted that these school districts are generally in affluent areas and are supplemented with educated immigrants from places like India and China, they benefit enough people that the US remains scientifically and technologically important. If we didn't have 300 million people and immigrants, we'd be doomed.
I don't think China's advantage is that it has a particularly higher proportion of great mathematicians - only that with a huge population it's possible to stream off ever-smaller groups as a fast stream.
It's multiple choice so they can be graded faster. Ego has nothing to do with it.
Kennigit
proud 2 boxer
En masse, it'd be highly correlated that those who score high compared to others in non multiple choice would score well compared to others in multiple choice (sat math also has small section of "free answer" where you report up to 8 numeric characters long, bubbled in. So a step up from only multiple choice)
In a well designed test, the format does not matter
The sat is curved anyways
In a well designed test, the format does not matter
The sat is curved anyways
That's true as long as the only goal is to put people in order - there's potential for confusion because you'd expect someone who knew absolutely nothing to get 20% (if there's five options), not 0%, so if you're evaluating their test you don't know for sure that they got the questions that they did right through luck or design. One way around this would be to put several in a row essentially asking the same thing. Certainly nothing that good design can't fix.
Kennigit
proud 2 boxer
Sat changes all the time (is stopping doing this) but you used to get penalized for wrong answers. Like -.25 for wrong, or just a 0 for blank, or 1 for correct (then whatever curving behind the scene, like if only 30% of respondents got it right and 90% of those wrre in top 40% raw score or something)
So, in a large enough sample size, things probably even out.
So, in a large enough sample size, things probably even out.
I've heard of medical school exams doing that, the logic being that if you're a doctor and you're not sure how to treat someone, it's much worse to just take a wild guess than it is to go away and look it up or pass them onto someone else.
hobbsyoyo
Deity
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My main gripe with standardized tests (or actually just tests in general) is how they very often turn into a race against the clock and less about how much you actually know and/or can figure out.
Actually, I don't know if that applies to the SAT/ACT (never took one) but it is definitely the case in many classroom testing situations.
Actually, I don't know if that applies to the SAT/ACT (never took one) but it is definitely the case in many classroom testing situations.
madviking
north american scum
part of aptitude is doing more work in less time
Law School exams were often that way - but the point was to manage your time and exercise some selective discretion rather that vomit everything you know into the bluebook.
For the bar exam, I struggled with time on the first half day (one was short answer and I was giving too perfect of answers early on relative to the time I should have been spending on them and one was a project where I started writing way too late), had plenty of time to spare o the multiple choice part, and timed things almost perfectly (with satisfactory complete answers) on the essays where you basically had 30 minutes per question. I was even able to lay down a couple of one liners in the essays (defining marriage as potentially a number of non-overlapping state-recognized relationships between a man and a series of his 14-year old female first cousins).
For the bar exam, I struggled with time on the first half day (one was short answer and I was giving too perfect of answers early on relative to the time I should have been spending on them and one was a project where I started writing way too late), had plenty of time to spare o the multiple choice part, and timed things almost perfectly (with satisfactory complete answers) on the essays where you basically had 30 minutes per question. I was even able to lay down a couple of one liners in the essays (defining marriage as potentially a number of non-overlapping state-recognized relationships between a man and a series of his 14-year old female first cousins).
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