Nylan
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Hey, guys, unlike you all I own the pictures I posted because I made them
So everyone else is a socialist for sharing?
Socialism
- Thread starter aelf
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So everyone else is a socialist for sharing?
Fr8monkey
Deity
kulade, Putting a post in large red font does not make the statement true. Same for screaming in a debate... just proves you have no valad point.
Cheezy the Wiz
Socialist In A Hurry
Socialism is a big bad word that many people use to scare people. The only people who need to be scared of socialism are the rich upper classes, of which the vast vast vast majority of people are not a part of. The vast vast vast majority of people have little if anything to lose to socialism, but the whole world to gain (figuratively speaking). It is lack of understanding of what the word means that demagogues play off of, for if people really knew what it meant, they wouldn't be afraid.
One of the main problems, I think, is that to really understand Marxism requires more than a little effort and education. When Hitler spoke, everyone "understood" him immediately. He appealed to the base instincts of Man. But Marxism appeals to the intellectual capabilities of Man, not what he is, but what he can be. It challenges mankind to use his gift of intelligence to reject those most base of instincts, to hoard for oneself and work for oneself, and to realize that the potential of collective work yields greater benefits than myriad individuals working for themselves at the expense of others. When Adam Smith envisioned capitalism, he saw it as a way to improve mankind by redefining the way we interacted, especially concerning money. It wasn't natural at the time, when mercantilism and remnants of feudalism still held sway, but enough people were inspired by what they saw humanity could become that they set out to change the world against all odds. And since then capitalism has brought us wonderful things, it has redefined what human cooperation means; just look at the corporation, at the conglomerate, are there more telling monuments to human cooperative work than them?
But Smith had a blind spot, the same as the rest of the liberal philosophers: men are not equally created, but rather equally entitled by virtue of being human, and thus deserve those fundamental rights we so often hear of. That lack of equality in capability is no different from other animals, and if man were just another animal like a tiger or a buffalo then letting Darwins theory play out might very well be acceptable and correct. But there is something different about humans that separates them from all other animals on Earth: intelligence. Man is capable of envisioning something bigger than himself, but also capable of realizing that he is a unique individual, and is aware of both. That means that competing with each other for survival like other animals do is beneath us, all the more so when our survival is not threatened. To surrender to those animal instincts, as many social Darwinists would have us do, is insulting to mankind and this wonderful gift we have been given, no matter whether you believe that gift comes from God or Mother Nature. Millenia of philosophers, thinkers, and theorists have slowly tried to separate man from the beasts, to act civilized and to put his intellect to good use. Through them, we have progressed from our infantile thought processes, barely distinguishable from any other social animal, to the point we have reached today, the intellectual maturity we have endlessly sought. That is why we have to abandon this more primitive form of interaction, now that we can see past the blind spots of previous philosophers and social theorists, and live up to our responsibility as humans to make maximum use of that great gift of intelligence, and finally act together for everyones gain, rather than individually for the gain of a few.
here here I think I am going to like this thread. Aelf, we might not see eye to eye on movies, that's a small matter. Socialism in our midst, is a large matter, and it must be eliminated.
China is communist, India and many other countries are socialist or social democrat. Half of the world is very left. As soon as the Republicans are a thing of the past, a social democrat party can be established in the US. You see, Obama is actually a rightist. 
It all boils down to one word, PROSPERITY! By the way that is very well written and fully reasonable.
Thorvald of Lym
A Little Sketchy
Tell me those are your own words.
How can this be the greatest source on Socialism if the entire article omits any mention of Obama?
amadeus
Apply directly to the forehead
That's true only if you understand business and the economy on a first grade level.
Cheezy the Wiz
Socialist In A Hurry
No, I don't think it should be boiled down into a single word. Oversimplification is probably one of the biggest problems in the world today, as few really understand what anythingreally means any more.
Tell me those are your own words.
Of course. I always cite when I take other people's stuff. I make myself out to be something of a historian, you know.
Fr8monkey
Deity
So you want to get rid of Fire Departmanet, police depts. social security, unemployment, medicare, public education, street repairs, public libraries, park maintenance, health care for military members, the Veterens Adminstration, the Food and Drug Administration, etc... Sounds like anarchy to me.
Erik Mesoy
Core Tester / Intern
holy king
Deity
Integral
Can't you hear it?
Property is impossible?
amadeus
Apply directly to the forehead
Sure, you can!
Who designs the product?
Who maintains the factory?
Who does the market research?
Who distributes it to retailers?
Who manages the employees and their benefits?
Who buys the raw materials?
Who takes care of the accounting?
Who provides the legal services?
Who does customer service?
Who makes sure the product meets safety standards?
Who manages all of the above people?
It isn't like A Christmas Carol where there are these one-room storehouses that have just a boss and his clerk... any businesses around these days that are like that are family businesses, and even then the boss still has to carry all of the above responsibilities; contracts, materials, financing, etc. don't just pop out of thin air, my good man!
Remember, no one man can make a pencil!
Link to video.
You are misunderstanding here maybe this will explain. Oh and medicare, do not fall in love with it because it is going to change alot.
Somebody named verbose called me out today and here is my response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verbose
Let me get this right:
You actually think Obama, Hitler and Lenin are at least roughly comparable?
(Hate to think how you might regard the rest of the OECD contries by that count.)
My Response,
No Sir, I do not. But some of the principles preached by Obama are linked to Socialist Ideals, his healthcare plan proves it. I am not sure what to think of him yet, but he is a Socialist. It was just the way he was celebrated, before people knew about him. And still at this point what little they still know. Even his citizenship is in question. Obamas background is precarious, and it is too easy too lie. Do I think he is going to be a Hitler or anything close, no I do not. But some of his reforms go against the Constitution, and know it or not more and more freedom is lost everyday.
The one thing that is interesting about Obama, Hitler, and Lenin, was that all of them preached change. Intially the change to the people was satisfactory. It is where the change leads to eventually, where I become concerned. It also to me has nothing to do with OECD, it has to do with freedom, the freedom this country was built on. I do not want to become a number do you? I want and believe in Prosperity. The OECD is a free market, free enterprise, and high income union of countries correct? I believe in a free market, but lets say the people are the market, do you want the government involved in how and what you chose to do in your everyday life. For instance snooping around your bank accounts, listening to your private phone calls, choosing your doctor. How about taking it one step further, deciding when and how you die, not only you but your grandparents and parents. The government according to Obamas new healthcare plan will decide that for you. To tell you the truth it is up to the person how things are done in personal matters. This is granted under the Constitution. If you want to discuss this further go to the Socialism thread, this is getting way off track.
My concern is personal Freedom, not giving up order. That would be like saying, let's disband the United States Army or Navy. There has to be order, but not martial law. Order and Freedom can live hand in hand, and have since the origination of this country. When it comes to the Constitution I am a staunch conservative, and I hope to dear God my fellow Americans are as well.
It brings a very valid point that no company would exist without the workers, and the owner's profit comes from them. But at the same time, without the investment of the owners the employees would not have any jobs or income. It is a two way street, but that only shows one side of the story.
holy king
Deity
Sure, you can!
Who designs the product?
Who maintains the factory?
Who does the market research?
Who distributes it to retailers?
Who manages the employees and their benefits?
Who buys the raw materials?
Who takes care of the accounting?
Who provides the legal services?
Who does customer service?
Who makes sure the product meets safety standards?
Who manages all of the above people?
It isn't like A Christmas Carol where there are these one-room storehouses that have just a boss and his clerk... any businesses around these days that are like that are family businesses, and even then the boss still has to carry all of the above responsibilities; contracts, materials, financing, etc. don't just pop out of thin air, my good man!
Remember, no one man can make a pencil!
the fact that tasks have split as well as the profiteurs since marx doesnt change anything about the basic principle that still applies.
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