Solstice

[Rashiminos]

I have a religious based question: how does the 3 day resurrection fit in with the solstice and Dec 25th being his "birthday"? I understand there is a lag time - maybe 2-3 days - between the sun appearing to reach its southernmost point and starting northward again. I imagine people all over the world, especially in the N hemisphere, were very keen to make sure the sun didn't just keep going south and rituals developed to ensure the return of the sun. Kinda makes me wonder if some bizarre event happened in the deep past that scared the hell out of our ancestors.

The Resurrection is celebrated at Easter, if we go by traditional Christianity.

 

[Berzerker]

What?

I have a religious based question: how does the 3 day resurrection fit in with the solstice and Dec 25th being his "birthday"? I understand there is a lag time - maybe 2-3 days - between the sun appearing to reach its southernmost point and starting northward again. I imagine people all over the world, especially in the N hemisphere, were very keen to make sure the sun didn't just keep going south and rituals developed to ensure the return of the sun. Kinda makes me wonder if some bizarre event happened in the deep past that scared the hell out of our ancestors.

 

[_random_]

I have a religious based question: how does the 3 day resurrection fit in with the solstice and Dec 25th being his "birthday"? I understand there is a lag time - maybe 2-3 days - between the sun appearing to reach its southernmost point and starting northward again. I imagine people all over the world, especially in the N hemisphere, were very keen to make sure the sun didn't just keep going south and rituals developed to ensure the return of the sun. Kinda makes me wonder if some bizarre event happened in the deep past that scared the hell out of our ancestors.

The dates for observing His birth and His Resurrection aren't connected to my awareness.

 

[AL_DA_GREAT]

The sun doesn't go above 7 degrees now. I leave my house at night to go to work and I come home at night. The dark has really been getting to my head the last couple of days.

And I thought our days were short... at least we have sunlight until 4 PM!

Our days will only be that long on the fourth of February. It is nearly 6 weeks left.

Luckily the sun sets at 10:20 in the evening and rises before 3:30 in the morning in June.

 

[really]

It's a shame people aren't familiar with the celestial drama our ancestors created holidays around...little wonder they look at Christmas trees and Easter bunnies with utter confusion.

I agree - I visited Newgrange - a stone age monument recently.

There is a passage to a space in the centre where the sun shines into it at dawn on the winter solstice. The amount of effort that must have gone into it is impressive.

There is a lottery to be in the space on the solstice to see it but 25,000 people apply for the 20 or so spaces.

 

[timtofly]

I have a religious based question: how does the 3 day resurrection fit in with the solstice and Dec 25th being his "birthday"? I understand there is a lag time - maybe 2-3 days - between the sun appearing to reach its southernmost point and starting northward again. I imagine people all over the world, especially in the N hemisphere, were very keen to make sure the sun didn't just keep going south and rituals developed to ensure the return of the sun. Kinda makes me wonder if some bizarre event happened in the deep past that scared the hell out of our ancestors.

A great Flood that changed the course of history?

 

[Berzerker]

The Resurrection is celebrated at Easter, if we go by traditional Christianity.

The dates for observing His birth and His Resurrection aren't connected to my awareness.

I understand that, but I still see a connection between the annual "resurrection" of the sun and Jesus... Another adoption of pagan beliefs; after all, if Dec 25 became his birthday to accommodate all the pagans, why not the 3 day resurrection? Why did pagans celebrate the 25th? Because that was 3 days after the solstice - and by the 25th the sun's apparent motion northward became obvious.

A great Flood that changed the course of history?

Of that I have no doubt, but I cant tie that in with the 3 day resurrection rituals. People dont have the same concern about the summer solstice, not even people in the S hemisphere.

 

[_random_]

I understand that, but I still see a connection between the annual "resurrection" of the sun and Jesus... Another adoption of pagan beliefs; after all, if Dec 25 became his birthday to accommodate all the pagans, why not the 3 day resurrection? Why did pagans celebrate the 25th? Because that was 3 days after the solstice - and by the 25th the sun's apparent motion northward became obvious.

I think I get what you're saying, but the Resurrection on the Third Day was a part of Christian doctrine long before any significant pagan thought was picked up. As I understand it, the date of Christmas was chosen to coincide with the Roman feast for the birth of Sol Invictus (the Invincible Sun), and Solstice would be a good time to celebrate that. I don't think there's any further association between Jesus and any sun deities.

 

[Quintillus]

Dec 21, 2011 7:26 AM - 4:25 PM 8h 59m 38s where I am. Plenty bright in the morning for me, but it's already dark by the time I get off work and I do find I'm less likely to go places after work than I was in the late summer. Apparently the sunset has already become later by two minutes since the earliest sunset of the year, which makes me happy.

Thursday night I'll probably be preparing to fly home for Christmas on Saturday, washing clothes and getting my apartment in nice shape, so no celebrations are likely then.

 

[Berzerker]

Pagans have been celebrating the 3 day resurrection of the sun long before Jesus, so the concept certainly was not foreign to the early Christians... So did Christians adopt that pagan belief too? Prior to Jesus' death, if anyone mentioned resurrection they'd probably identify their solar rituals. Even those earliest of Christians knew the significance of the solstice, they were most definitely into astrology - the fish being Pisces of course.

 

[_random_]

Pagans have been celebrating the 3 day resurrection of the sun long before Jesus, so the concept certainly was not foreign to the early Christians... So did Christians adopt that pagan belief too? Prior to Jesus' death, if anyone mentioned resurrection they'd probably identify their solar rituals. Even those earliest of Christians knew the significance of the solstice, they were most definitely into astrology - the fish being Pisces of course.

The earliest Christian thought is mostly Hebraic with some broadly Hellenic philosophical influences, and Jews didn't really have "solar rituals" per se. The fish was used as a Christian symbol since the Greek word was an acrynom for "Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior." It had nothing to do with the Zodiac.

 

[Disgustipated]

I think I get what you're saying, but the Resurrection on the Third Day was a part of Christian doctrine long before any significant pagan thought was picked up. As I understand it, the date of Christmas was chosen to coincide with the Roman feast for the birth of Sol Invictus (the Invincible Sun), and Solstice would be a good time to celebrate that. I don't think there's any further association between Jesus and any sun deities.

Wait, so Jesus wasn't born on Dec 25th? I feel horribly lied to.

Shows how much I know about Christianity. I found the subject horribly boring as a kid.

As for Solstice, I don't hardly notice it. I don't pay attention to ancient rituals or superstitions. It's just a day like any other day (just not as long ) The lack of daylight sometimes gets to me. I sometimes get depressed in December, although it's usually closer to New Years I get depressed. I haven't been doing too bad the past few years. My social life has been a little better which has helped.

I talk like I don't have much daylight, but in actuality I'm not that far North. I couldn't imagine living in a place without much daylight. I'm working nights right now, and I don't like sleeping during the day. I wake up, and I don't want to do anything. I don't like shopping at night, I like to do it during the day. So I'll just be on my computer all night.

I'm not sure where you guys found your info, I just did a google search, and came up with these values for Las Vegas:

Date Sunrise Sunset This day Difference Time Altitude Distance
(106 km)
Dec 20, 2011 6:47 AM 4:29 PM 9h 42m 03s − 06s 11:38 AM 30.5° 147.177
Dec 21, 2011 6:48 AM 4:30 PM 9h 41m 59s − 03s 11:39 AM 30.5° 147.167
Dec 22, 2011 6:48 AM 4:30 PM 9h 42m 00s < 1s 11:39 AM 30.5° 147.158

 

[_random_]

Wait, so Jesus wasn't born on Dec 25th? I feel horribly lied to.

Wait, you seriously believed that? The "Sol Invictus" thing isn't the only theory for why Christmas is dated the way it is, but I don't think I've heard anybody outside of a few Patristic writers say that Jesus was actually born on December 25th.

 

[madviking]

Newton, on the other hand...

 

[_random_]

Well, as I understand it from a few obnoxious UVA students, that's disputed.

 

[madviking]

Well, as I understand it from a few obnoxious UVA students, that's disputed.

The people at UVa are generally obnoxious.

 

[Berzerker]

The earliest Christian thought is mostly Hebraic with some broadly Hellenic philosophical influences, and Jews didn't really have "solar rituals" per se. The fish was used as a Christian symbol since the Greek word was an acrynom for "Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior." It had nothing to do with the Zodiac.

Why did Jesus care about a Greek acronym?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Who said that Jesus cared about it? It was Greek-speaking Christians who made it into a Christian symbol.

 

[Berzerker]

The point of my question was to show that Jesus was the source of the fish symbolism, not later Greek speaking Christians with an acronym. I was told the fish has nothing to do with the Zodiac because it was invented later on... But "Jesus" linked himself to both the fish and the virgin - they're opposites on the zodiac. The lamb of God was sacrificed to bring forth the age of the fish. Thats Zodiac lingo, the age of the ram (Aries) was giving way to Pisces and a "new age".

 

[_random_]

The point of my question was to show that Jesus was the source of the fish symbolism, not later Greek speaking Christians with an acronym. I was told the fish has nothing to do with the Zodiac because it was invented later on... But "Jesus" linked himself to both the fish and the virgin - they're opposites on the zodiac. The lamb of God was sacrificed to bring forth the age of the fish. Thats Zodiac lingo, the age of the ram (Aries) was giving way to Pisces and a "new age".

The virgin imagery comes from prophecies in the book of Isaiah. The Hebrew Scriptures typically use sea creatures as an image of Gentiles, so I suppose you could see "the age of the fish" as representing the extension of the Covenant. Regardless, you can't come up with any Hellenic Zodiac imagery from a Hebraic standpoint, since the Hebrews didn't identify the Constellations with the same things the Greeks and Romans did. Where are you getting these ideas from exactly?