Something Interesting About Iraq

[Neomega]

While obviously IGNORING who it really is causing all the deaths in Iraq that survey even if right, as it likely is not only proves that great human tragedies are taking place in Iraq now while many are more concerned in blindly fighting a blame game.

blindly...

And guess who doesn't like "playing the blame game?"

That's right, the sorry souls who are to blame. The ones who thought it would be a cakewalk, greeted as liberators, reconsrtuction pay for itself, last throes, we know where they are... blah blah blah, lie lie lie

Yes, I hold those who didn't think of the consequences of their stupid actions to blame.

Who really is killign the 10,000 or so Iraqis seem to them unworthy of note or even irrelevent.

Yup, You pour a paint can on the floor, I really don't care about why the pigments are staining the floor, and what chemical reactions are to blame, I just care that you poured the paint can, and ruined the carpet.

Instead they blame the US for doing anything and equaly blame it for doing nothing.

No, I blame it for not doing nothing in the first place. Everything afterwards is just the catastrophe of stupidity.

Yet, most of you seem apathetic with anything except blaming the US while people in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere die everyday, their cries falling on the deaf ears of those who find it much more worthwhile to blame the US.

Whatever.

Yet, the majority of people who were not being killde by Americans would care that their deahts mean little more to some then a number with which to blame the Americans.

Rich, someone responsible for the misery brought is now trying to speak for the victims.

However, the Americans are not responsible for but a minority of civilian casulties.

That is the truth.

They are responsible for the chaos. they should have thought of that before invading the country.

 

[Fox Mccloud]

blindly...

And guess who doesn't like "playing the blame game?"

That would be people like me who are more concerned with ending the war and bringing our troops home safely then in passing blame on others.

That's right, the sorry souls who are to blame.

Rich, someone responsible for the misery brought is now trying to speak for the victims.

Once again, the relevent blame, or even irrelevent blame becomes the only cornerstone or benchmark of anything that progresses in Iraq.


The Iraqis are to blame for waging a brutal vendetta between the tribes after the fall of Saddam. Although I understand also how you think. The US did create some of the conditions for it to happen.

 

[Neomega]

what? You think some sanitized picture is going to fool me, or shock me? I've seen the real deal. I've seen the children with their skin torn off by shattered glass, adn women with their faces obliterated by fireballs. Your little picture is not shocking.

I know what the hell is going on over there, and it is hell on earth. Things are not getting better, they are getting worse, and will continue to do so as long as we are over there sewing the seeds of paranoia and fear.

That would be people like me who are more concerned with ending the war and bringing our troops home safely then in passing blame on others.

pishtosh. You would have no problem with the war going on for another 10 years, if your republican overlords said it was necessary. You don't want it to end, you want America to "win", whatever the hell that means.

Once again, the relevent blame, or even irrelevent blame becomes the only cornerstone or benchmark of anything that progresses in Iraq.

It's relevant, because there is no longer any need to heed the advice of the incompetant. And people must constantly be reminded just who those poor incompetant souls are... teh ones to blame. They keep talking like they know the future, or know what's best, but lets look at what they got us.

Yup, they got us a messed up situation in Iraq, a more unstable middle east, 3200 dead Americans, at least a hundred thousand dead Iraqis, hundreds of thousands of wounded people, and massive amounts of debt.

And yet, the ones TO BLAME for all this are still foolishly opening their feces stenched yappers and trying to tell us how we should go forward.

You guys had your chance... and you blew it, now, for the sake of the good of the country... please shut up and sit down, the real American patriots will fix your mess.

 

[Neomega]

Oh yeah, and that picture is from afghanistan, not Iraq. I can tell by the way the men are dressed.

 

[Fox Mccloud]

what? You think some sanitized picture is going to fool me, or shock me? I've seen the real deal. I've seen the children with their skin torn off by shattered glass, adn women with their faces obliterated by fireballs. Your little picture is not shocking.

There goes the point, flying right over Neomega's head.

I know what the hell is going on over there, and it is hell on earth. Things are not getting better, they are getting worse, and will continue to do so as long as we are over there sewing the seeds of paranoia and fear.



pishtosh. You would have no problem with the war going on for another 10 years, if your republican overlords said it was necessary. You don't want it to end, you want America to "win", whatever the hell that means.

Often I have wondered how much of your posting uses logic and how much uses emotion?

Is it 60% feeling 40% rational thought? 70% feeling 30% thought? 80% feeling 20% thought? Perhaps even 90% feeling?

I can tell you are a really very emotional, feeling kind of person, as your posts belay it. I was just curious if you could put a number on it.

It's relevant, because there is no longer any need to heed the advice of the incompetant. And people must constantly be reminded just who those poor incompetant souls are... teh ones to blame. They keep talking like they know the future, or know what's best, but lets look at what they got us.

Yup, they got us a messed up situation in Iraq, a more unstable middle east, 3200 dеad Americans, at least a hundred thousand deаd Iraqis, hundreds of thousands of wounded people, and massive amounts of debt.

You obsess with what you can not change. The real question is what are we going to do about it and what are the consequences of what we do now?

You guys had your chance... and you blew it, now, for the sake of the good of the country... please shut up and sit down, the real American patriots will fix your mess.

I suppose the "real American patriots" such as yourself have a plan, then? Something that must be better then what we have now, right? Because if you do, I haven't heard about it.

Oh yeah, and that picture is from afghanistan, not Iraq. I can tell by the way the men are dressed.

I know, I could tell too. Yet, it is still relevant in illustrating a response to your question.

 

[nonconformist]

The US has provided the conditions for the brutal civil war in Iraq, by overthrowing yet another stable government for some self-serving right wing agenda, and all the blood is upon thir hands.
This was fully predictable, and the neocon claim that it's the Iraqis faults is amongst one of the vilest lies perpetrated, along with the "life is better today" and "most of the insurgents are foreign Jihadis. The Iraqis love us" mantras.
Was this not fully predictable?
Is Iraq not a country of artificial creation and conception by the west?
Is it not feasable that each clique will vie for supremacy in a country whihc has been held together since its conception by authoratarianism?

What the US has instituted in Iraq is not democracy; it is anarchy. The right-wing neocon thinktanks can't look past their blinkers; if it ain't American, and served up with a slice of mom's home-baked apple pie, it doesn't exist.
God forbid that american values are not universal to the world. God forbid that countries with no history of democracy, no mentality of it, a middle eastern country which doesn't share your precious christian, dollar-loving, president worshipping, should exist.
God forbid that a country which has so much hatred for the US, for their invasion in 1990, for the decade of sanctions that crippled Iraq and murdered so many of their citizens, who has bombed Iraq on a weekly basis since 1990, for their 1990 betrayal of the Shia rebels, should fight the invader coming in, and destroy everyone of their vile constructions and puppet folk.

The current situation is fully the neocon's faults, and they have as much blood on their hands as the people on the ground actually risking life and limb living in the world's number 1 hellhole, made in the USA, if not more.
At least I have respect for the ones on the ground.

 

[MobBoss]

what? You think some sanitized picture is going to fool me, or shock me? I've seen the real deal. I've seen the children with their skin torn off by shattered glass, adn women with their faces obliterated by fireballs. Your little picture is not shocking.

You have seen the same he has. Pictures. You havent seen the real deal at all.

I know what the hell is going on over there, and it is hell on earth.

All you know is what you have read or been told.

Things are not getting better, they are getting worse, and will continue to do so as long as we are over there sewing the seeds of paranoia and fear.

Not true. Outside of Baghdad things have gotten a lot better..especially in the North.

pishtosh. You would have no problem with the war going on for another 10 years, if your republican overlords said it was necessary. You don't want it to end, you want America to "win", whatever the hell that means.

America 'winning' equals Iraq being strong enough to deter invasion from its surrounding neighbors.

It's relevant, because there is no longer any need to heed the advice of the incompetant. And people must constantly be reminded just who those poor incompetant souls are... teh ones to blame. They keep talking like they know the future, or know what's best, but lets look at what they got us.

The people that I blame for this are the ones that let Iraq 'get away with it' for 14 years of powerless UN resolutions. You know...the ones that voted to keep Saddam in power since they wanted to do business with him.

You guys had your chance... and you blew it, now, for the sake of the good of the country... please shut up and sit down, the real American patriots will fix your mess.

The 'real' american patriots? Utterly laughable. I seem to recall a whole bunch of those 'real' american patriots voting in favor of going into Iraq in the first place.......

 

[Azale]

@noncom, are you saying Iraq was stuck with Saddam and his sons? The only other way to depose of him would be a revolution...which would likely cause this situation all over again. He had a pretty tight grip and the military was his tool, so a military coup de'tat would have been very unlikely.

 

[Neomega]

There goes the point, flying right over Neomega's head.

No, you missed the point. You are trying to say the people engaged in civil war are to blame. ... but you don't want to play the blame game... and then post a picture from afghanistan. Good one.

Often I have wondered how much of your posting uses logic and how much uses emotion?

Is it 60% feeling 40% rational thought? 70% feeling 30% thought? 80% feeling 20% thought? Perhaps even 90% feeling?

I can tell you are a really very emotional, feeling kind of person, as your posts belay it. I was just curious if you could put a number on it.

When in doubt, resort to ad hominem and worthless tripe.

I am emotional because a bunch of retards are singing the star spangled banner as they lead my nation into an abyss from which we may never be able to climb from.

AND

You can argue with emotion, and have logic to back it up.

You obsess with what you can not change. The real question is what are we going to do about it and what are the consequences of what we do now?

I already told you.

step 1: Ignore the neocons and their little yapping poodles.

I suppose the "real American patriots" such as yourself have a plan, then? Something that must be better then what we have now, right? Because if you do, I haven't heard about it.

Well, geeze, the Iraq study group would be a start. No, not cherry picking from it, in it's entirety, including engaging Iraqs most important trade partners, Syria and Iran...

(ooohhh dat wascawy pewosi)

I know, I could tell too. Yet, it is still relevant in illustrating a response to your question.

You just hoped you could slip it by ol' "no logic" neomega, eh?

 

[Neomega]

You have seen the same he has. Pictures. You havent seen the real deal at all.

I didn't claim to. I don't need to.

All you know is what you have read or been told.

Very good, Mobboss. That's true... and?

Not true. Outside of Baghdad things have gotten a lot better..especially in the North.

Yeah, the north has been relatively calm the whole time. But that is surely not "a lot better"

But, since I am here... proof?

allthough, as a whole, things have gotten alot worse, things in bagdhahd have actually improved slightly, due to the surge.... however things outside of Bagdhad, contrary to your opinion, have actually gotten worse!

America 'winning' equals Iraq being strong enough to deter invasion from its surrounding neighbors.

So, engage Iran and Syria, so they won't feel the need to invade.
Oh, and while we are at it, we might as well start making things "less calm" in the North, since the Peshmerga are pestering Turkey.

The people that I blame for this are the ones that let Iraq 'get away with it' for 14 years of powerless UN resolutions. You know...the ones that voted to keep Saddam in power since they wanted to do business with him.

blame whoever you want. In the real world, we know the Bush administration is to blame for the chaos in Iraq, not Anan and Putin. But your buddies Kristol and Pearle can keep tickling your ears and let you feel like you were lucky, and ignorance and incompetance were not to blame, but crooked oil for food politicians... blame it all on them.

And keep listening to the neocons... what? War with Iran is the answer... well since you neocons have been so smart, well do it!! And if that fails... um..... blame France!

The 'real' american patriots? Utterly laughable. I seem to recall a whole bunch of those 'real' american patriots voting in favor of going into Iraq in the first place.......

Yeah, when in doubt, resort to pointing to Clinton and Lieberman.

I mean the real American patriots who were in the streets protesting. You know, the ones that made your guts turn with hatred. You know, the people who were right.

The real American Patriots.

The ones who knew more about the situation than:

support our troops
how quickly we forget
bomba osama
freedom isn't free

and all those other worthless little jingles educated American patriots had to endure when trying to lay out the facts and risks associated with invading Iraq.

What? You think we forgot the basis of the sorry arguments?

P.S. Did you know it is your duty as an American citizen to be educated about your government?

 

[JollyRoger]

Where is the monthly thread about U.S. casualties going down?

 

[Fox Mccloud]

No, you missed the point. You are trying to say the people engaged in civil war are to blame. ... but you don't want to play the blame game... and then post a picture from afghanistan. Good one.

Perhaps I have not made my views entirely clear.

Whoever the deserving target of blame is not entirely relevant.

As I have said before even if the survey was correct, as it likely is not only proves that great human tragedies are taking place in Iraq now while many are more concerned in blindly fighting a blame game.

The Narcisists of today, like the earlier generation of narcissists and aging hippies from Vietnam and Korea do not seem to have any semblence of care or concern for the people actually dieng and obsess with the past in fighting in blaming someone else.

They obsess with the past and only look toward the past while only seemingly unknowingly moving towards the future seemingly unaware that the answers are not to be found in the past.

The answers to the problems of the Iraqis, and solutions toward peace which too many people don't seem to really care about can only be found in the present and future through some maner of action.

While the blaming is not entirely relevent, I do feel it is unfairly directed.

Well, geeze, the Iraq study group would be a start. No, not cherry picking from it, in it's entirety,

There was lots of critisism of the ISG, not just from Bush.

including engaging Iraqs most important trade partners, Syria and Iran...

I have little hope in negociation with Iran. They could try it, and perhaps I could be proven wrong and it might satisfy some people but I doubt the negociations would work with Iran.

However, we may be able to negociate with the Sunni Arabs who have a lot to lose in Iraq and could get them to persuade Syria to loosen it's ties to Tehran.

You just hoped you could slip it by ol' "no logic" neomega, eh?

The picture applies in Iraq just as much as in Afghanistan.

I mean the real American patriots who were in the streets protesting. You know, the ones that made your guts turn with hatred. You know, the people who were right.

The real American Patriots.

The ones who knew more about the situation than:

Yeah right, Neomega. These patriots sure do know alot about the situation, don't they.

 

[sonorakitch]

Yeah right, Neomega. These patriots sure do know alot about the situation, don't they.

Hahahahahahah...that is a damn funny video.

Just goes to show you...

Good one Fox.

~Chris

 

[RedWolf]

Hahahahahahah...that is a damn funny video.

Just goes to show you...

Good one Fox.

~Chris

And you could interview enough American soldiers until you found one saying Saddam was responsible for 9/11.

And if you interview enough Americans you'll find one that doesn't know where Canada is.

So what?

 

[Neomega]

While the blaming is not entirely relevent, I do feel it is unfairly directed.

No NO No, they say, we cant play the blame game... what are you going to do to fix "the" mess.

No No NO, I say. it's not "the" mess, it's "YOUR" mess. You are to blame. Now shut up and get out of the way. Your stupid ideologies, half baked ideas, and warmed over talking points aren't helping.

Well, geeze, the Iraq study group would be a start. No, not cherry picking from it, in it's entirety,

There was lots of critisism of the ISG, not just from Bush.

Yeah, there is a lot of criticism of Bush's plan too.

I have little hope in negociation with Iran. They could try it, and perhaps I could be proven wrong and it might satisfy some people but I doubt the negociations would work with Iran.

However, we may be able to negociate with the Sunni Arabs who have a lot to lose in Iraq and could get them to persuade Syria to loosen it's ties to Tehran.

???

Syria loosen ties with Tehran? What does that have to do with Iraq?

But since right wing-nut plans have made things worse, I think perhaps its time we stop listening to right wingers.

(yes neomega is playing the blame game... yes he's blaming right wingers, no you cant make him stop playing it, because it is VERY important to remember who got us in this mess in the first place, so we can be smart enough to not listen to their stupidity anymore)

The picture applies in Iraq just as much as in Afghanistan.

Are you trying to say the Taleban is responsible for violence in Iraq? Are you trying to say all middle easterners look alike? It doesn't apply to Iraq at all.

Yeah right, Neomega. These patriots sure do know alot about the situation, don't they.

1. that was a stupid jock thinking he was smart, asking stupid typical shallow neocon questions, and thinking he won.

2. 1,000,000 Kurds killed? thats what he claimed. Without any proof. Stupid video. That's where I stopped watching.

3. Those three girls aren't president, vice president, or secretary of defense. Shall I dig up all the videos of those three fools saying dumb things?

 

[theimmortal1]

Its simple..

The passifist socialists will blame anything on America. If a meteor was going to strike earth, it was their athiest God punishing America according to them. In other words, their entire plan is to discredit America, capitalists, and freedom loving people in general.

That is all it is.


We can give them facts and evidence until we are blue in the face. They are on a crusade to bring down capitalism and freedom. They are trying to chop us down slowly but surely to bring about the socialist passifist utopia

 

[Neomega]

Its simple..

The passifist socialists will blame anything on America. If a meteor was going to strike earth, it was their athiest God punishing America according to them. In other words, their entire plan is to discredit America, capitalists, and freedom loving people in general.

That is all it is.


We can give them facts and evidence until we are blue in the face. They are on a crusade to bring down capitalism and freedom. They are trying to chop us down slowly but surely to bring about the socialist passifist utopia

what about the isolationist capitalists?

the pacifist capitalists?

All the Vietnam veterans against the war?

Bring down freedom?

You are the ones waving your rights with your flags. You are the ones willing to give up your civil liberties to save yourselves form the big bad muslim boogy-man. You are the ones that want to take away our freedoms. And then when the real Americans, who know our freedoms are to be cherished, protest, you are the ones who call out treason.

You want a christo-fascist utopia.



where is your facts? Where are your WMD's? Your connection between Saddam and Osama?



All you got is spin. You got spin layered on spin layered on spin.

facts? give me a break.

 

[Neomega]

Its simple..

The passifist socialists will blame anything on America. If a meteor was going to strike earth, it was their athiest God punishing America according to them. In other words, their entire plan is to discredit America, capitalists, and freedom loving people in general.

That is all it is.


We can give them facts and evidence until we are blue in the face. They are on a crusade to bring down capitalism and freedom. They are trying to chop us down slowly but surely to bring about the socialist passifist utopia

P.S.

I just couldn't help but notice what this quote sounded so eerily like:

"The leaders of a country determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along -- even into a war they don't want. Tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for their lack of patriotism and for exposing the country to danger. Whether the government be a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, a parliamentary form or a communist dictatorship, it works the same everywhere." -- Hermann Goering

 

[nonconformist]

@noncom, are you saying Iraq was stuck with Saddam and his sons? The only other way to depose of him would be a revolution...which would likely cause this situation all over again. He had a pretty tight grip and the military was his tool, so a military coup de'tat would have been very unlikely.

Yep, you're right, but here's the clincher-it wouldn't have been our fault.
That means:
a)No "you broke it, you bought it" deal.
b)Multilateral peace keeping mission, instead of every UN country sitting back while US troops are being attacked and targeted, and sipping their beers while saying "nope, not our problem".
c)Less hatred from the Iraqis; in fact the Shia may have considerd the US to have redeemed itself after the 1991 betrayal.
d)The US would still have an international reputation.

Its simple..

The passifist socialists will blame anything on America. If a meteor was going to strike earth, it was their athiest God punishing America according to them. In other words, their entire plan is to discredit America, capitalists, and freedom loving people in general.

That is all it is.


We can give them facts and evidence until we are blue in the face. They are on a crusade to bring down capitalism and freedom. They are trying to chop us down slowly but surely to bring about the socialist passifist utopia

J00z did 9/11 lol