Speculating on (Historical) Civ Progression

[Professor Phobo]

It's quite possible the unlocks are based on synergistic traits more than they are on history.

 

[thecrazyscot]

I have no doubt Abbasids will be a historic route for Babylon and (if present) Assyria as well as for Egypt. They may also be an option for Persia, especially if we do not have an Exploration Age Persian civ. (However, I hope that sooner rather than later we have Persia covered for all three ages.)

Indeed, but the question is...if all those Antiquity civs are in the game, which ones gets the Abbasids???

 

[Zaarin]

Indeed, but the question is...if all those Antiquity civs are in the game, which ones gets the Abbasids???

I can't remember where I heard it, but I think I recall reading/hearing duplicates are allowed. I imagine there will be a toggle for that, though, like they ended up adding to Civ6.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Trying to come up with progression pathways for Antiquity MENA civs:

Egypt -> Fatimids
Babylon -> Abbasids
Assyria -> ??
Persia -> Seljuqs
Nabataeans -> Umayyads

No way we have three Arabian caliphates in the game though. And a Syria-based Umayyad civ wouldn't be really different from the Abbasids. If they went for the Iberian Umayyads, that would be a different matter.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I just tried to make a table showing a priority 1 historical progression path (i.e. whatever the devs code as the greatest "historical" progression value for the AI) and almost had a nervous breakdown trying to figure out - given what we know and what we surmise and a few wild logical leaps - how the Americas play out.

I can only imagine the years of discussions it took Firaxis to finalize their lists for each Age, and presume there were some very strong arguments on the road there. I quit here:

Aksum	Songhai	Buganda
Egypt	Abbasids	Ethiopia
Goths	Spain	Mexico
Maurya	Khmer	India
	Inca	Brazil
Rome	Normans	England
Huns	Mongolia	Russia
Greece	Venice	France
Han	Ming	Qing
Maya	Shawnee	America
Persia

Goths to Mexico is funny when you think about it. Surely there has to be some path towards Germany, right?
Not that I like it but Maya to Spain to Mexico at least makes more sense.

I have no doubt Abbasids will be a historic route for Babylon and (if present) Assyria as well as for Egypt. They may also be an option for Persia, especially if we do not have an Exploration Age Persian civ. (However, I hope that sooner rather than later we have Persia covered for all three ages.)

If the Nabateans are for sure in, I would at least believe that it would be them and Egypt into the Abbasids.

 

[thecrazyscot]

I presume Firaxis is really enjoying watching us try and figure this out

 

[thecrazyscot]

Goths to Mexico is funny when you think about it.

I was actually kinda proud of that one

 

[Xandinho]

I just tried to make a table showing a priority 1 historical progression path (i.e. whatever the devs code as the greatest "historical" progression value for the AI) and almost had a nervous breakdown trying to figure out - given what we know and what we surmise and a few wild logical leaps - how the Americas play out.

I can only imagine the years of discussions it took Firaxis to finalize their lists for each Age, and presume there were some very strong arguments on the road there. I quit here:

Aksum	Songhai	Buganda
Egypt	Abbasids	Ethiopia
Goths	Spain	Mexico
Maurya	Khmer	India
	Inca	Brazil
Rome	Normans	England
Huns	Mongolia	Russia
Greece	Venice	France
Han	Ming	Qing
Maya	Shawnee	America
Persia

I can see them having Brazil come from Spain, until Portugal is added. Most likely Mexico will come from the Aztecs.

By the way, will Age 3 China really be called Qing?

 

[Krikkit1]

It's quite possible the unlocks are based on synergistic traits more than they are on history.

Very unlikely... The civ->civ unlocks are almost certainly based on historical "proximity" Synergistic traits would be gameplay unlocks.

Don't have a Pueblo (Desert civ we won't have) unlock Saudi (another Desert civ we may get at some pint)
Instead Saudi Gets unlocked by controlling X Desert tiles in your cities... which a Desert civ will do)

Siam wouldn't unlock Brazil if they both get jungle bonuses... instead Portugal + Native S.American civs would unlock Brazil (as well as maybe having X Jungle tiles)

 

[thecrazyscot]

By the way, will Age 3 China really be called Qing?

Not a clue!

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I can see them having Brazil come from Spain, until Portugal is added. Most likely Mexico will come from the Aztecs.

By the way, will Age 3 China really be called Qing?

Wouldn't it have to be called Qing or PRC? I guess they could just call it China.

 

[E.C.H]

Wouldn't it have to be called Qing or PRC? I guess they could just call it China.

If that one wonder sighted has been correctly identified as the Summer Palace complex, I'd be surprised if it wasn't Qing.

 

[lt22677]

I just tried to make a table showing a priority 1 historical progression path (i.e. whatever the devs code as the greatest "historical" progression value for the AI) and almost had a nervous breakdown trying to figure out - given what we know and what we surmise and a few wild logical leaps - how the Americas play out.

I can only imagine the years of discussions it took Firaxis to finalize their lists for each Age, and presume there were some very strong arguments on the road there. I quit here:

Aksum	Songhai	Buganda
Egypt	Abbasids	Ethiopia
Goths	Spain	Mexico
Maurya	Khmer	India
	Inca	Brazil
Rome	Normans	England
Huns	Mongolia	Russia
Greece	Venice	France
Han	Ming	Qing
Maya	Shawnee	America
Persia

Don't get angry, it's not a criticism of you, but if Firaxis presented itself with this Huns - Mongolia - Russia association it's very likely that Putin would invite them to drink tea, then the others are a bit curious Greece-Venice-France

 

[Mudokon Pop]

I just tried to make a table showing a priority 1 historical progression path (i.e. whatever the devs code as the greatest "historical" progression value for the AI) and almost had a nervous breakdown trying to figure out - given what we know and what we surmise and a few wild logical leaps - how the Americas play out.

I can only imagine the years of discussions it took Firaxis to finalize their lists for each Age, and presume there were some very strong arguments on the road there. I quit here:

Aksum	Songhai	Buganda
Egypt	Abbasids	Ethiopia
Goths	Spain	Mexico
Maurya	Khmer	India
	Inca	Brazil
Rome	Normans	England
Huns	Mongolia	Russia
Greece	Venice	France
Han	Ming	Qing
Maya	Shawnee	America
Persia

Wouldn't Aksum be the most historical route to Ethiopia?

For Persia I hope we also see a Timurid option. The Timurids would be a historic route to the Mughals too. Unless the Mughals are also Exploration Age.

 

[The_J]

It's quite possible the unlocks are based on synergistic traits more than they are on history.

In one of the videos this was also mentioned.
It does make sense. You don't want a cultural antiquity civ, which switches to a warmonger exploration era civ, and then a scientific modern age civ. The AI would probably not be able to handle this, given that traits are also determined by the leader. Many people would also find this very non-thematic (although there are historical examples like that).
Both Egypt and Songhai get river bonuses, so that choice makes gameplay-wise sense.

 

[Xandinho]

What would a good Scandinavian progression path look like?
Since I think the Viking civ will be in Age 2, maybe something like "Swedes/Suiones (Svear) > Norway (based on Viking age) > Sweden (modern)" could work? Or maybe "Norway > Denmark (Centered in the Kalmar Union) > Sweden"?

 

[Zaarin]

What would a good Scandinavian progression path look like?
Since I think the Viking civ will be in Age 2, maybe something like "Swedes/Suiones (Svear) > Norway (based on Viking age) > Sweden (modern)" could work? Or maybe "Norway > Denmark (Centered in the Kalmar Union) > Sweden"?

Iceland is a good alternative to Norway. Could even have Snorri Sturluson as a leader now.

 

[The_J]

I think the vikings might be one of the civs which maybe could only be unlocked via leader or via a thematic choice ("plundered 3 cities via naval warfare", etc), and might not have an antiquity or modern age "historical" choice (because these are both questionable for global influence; it is not confirmed that this possibility exists though).

 

[Zaarin]

I think the vikings might be one of the civs which maybe could only be unlocked via leader or via a thematic choice ("plundered 3 cities via naval warfare", etc), and might not have an antiquity or modern age "historical" choice (because these are both questionable for global influence; it is not confirmed that this possibility exists though).

The Norse considered themselves descendants of the Goths and spoke a related language so that's one possible route for a historical Antiquity civ for the Nordic civ.

 

[The_J]

Ah, I did not know that, thanks .