Immaculate
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confirming thebes
SprylliNES V: The Peloponnesian War
- Thread starter spryllino
- Start date
Immaculate
unerring
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A note on the proposed truce (from history books),
"In the first phase, from 432 to 424, there is rough parity as the Spartans and allies regularly invade Attica and are themselves attacked by the Athenians by sea. The capture of the Spartans at Pylos and the attacks of Brasidas in Thrace brought about a truce [aka: armistice]; but one so badly made that a continuation of the war was 'inevitable'. "
"In the first phase, from 432 to 424, there is rough parity as the Spartans and allies regularly invade Attica and are themselves attacked by the Athenians by sea. The capture of the Spartans at Pylos and the attacks of Brasidas in Thrace brought about a truce [aka: armistice]; but one so badly made that a continuation of the war was 'inevitable'. "
Pft. The peace of Nikias is workable if those who are supposed to implement it wish to see it done. In 421, it was absolutely not doomed to fail.
But it probably will, because NESers are NESers.
Immaculate
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From Pagondas of Thebes, Commander of the Boeotian forces at the Battle of Delium, and First Statesman of Great Thebes,
To the Athenian Assembly
Before we make our decision in regards to our acceptance of the Peace of Nicias or not, you must reconsider your insistence on continuing the devastating Megarian decree for these economic sanctions are rightfully felt by our friend and ally, Megara, to be wrongfully punitive, and frankly, petty.
Did not the playwright Aristophanes tell how, in the Acharnians, the Megarian degree left the Megarians ‘slowly starving’? If the playwrights of your own city know the truth of your vengeful policy, then surely the statesmen do too?
And so, desist your wrongful decree, the work of a statesmen the gods themselves have punished with plague for his follies and make the Peace of Nicias possible by dissolution of this decree.
In reference to the fort of Panactum, to abandon it would be a great disservice to the people of Tanagra, many of whom gave their lives to prevent your hegemony only 3 years ago.
From Pagondas of Thebes, Commander of the Boeotian forces at the Battle of Delium, and First Statesman of Great Thebes,
To the Spartans
We worry that the Peace of Nicias wins not freedom and justice for the Thracians but abject slavery. The Chalcidians, and Amphipolitans in particular have been noble allies; indeed without their struggle the coffers of the Athenians would be full, their forges clanging with the sound of hammers as they build new armor and spears and their shipyards stinking of pitch from the construction of new ships. Their efforts and sacrifice is what have brought us such recent victories. To effectively sell these people for an unsustainable peace is a travesty and I feel I must add my voice to that of your general, Clearidas, who begs of you to ”reconsider this clause of the treaty if not the whole document.”
This treaty also asks that we turn our backs on the people of Megara and Tanagra; surely you do not intend to do such a great disservice to your allies, the Chalcidians, the Magerians, the Tanagrans, others? We too seek peace with the Athenians and a return to our farms and homes but we cannot simply wash our hands of the responsibilities we owe to our allies.
OOC: Where is Panactum?
To the Athenian Assembly
Before we make our decision in regards to our acceptance of the Peace of Nicias or not, you must reconsider your insistence on continuing the devastating Megarian decree for these economic sanctions are rightfully felt by our friend and ally, Megara, to be wrongfully punitive, and frankly, petty.
Did not the playwright Aristophanes tell how, in the Acharnians, the Megarian degree left the Megarians ‘slowly starving’? If the playwrights of your own city know the truth of your vengeful policy, then surely the statesmen do too?
And so, desist your wrongful decree, the work of a statesmen the gods themselves have punished with plague for his follies and make the Peace of Nicias possible by dissolution of this decree.
In reference to the fort of Panactum, to abandon it would be a great disservice to the people of Tanagra, many of whom gave their lives to prevent your hegemony only 3 years ago.
From Pagondas of Thebes, Commander of the Boeotian forces at the Battle of Delium, and First Statesman of Great Thebes,
To the Spartans
We worry that the Peace of Nicias wins not freedom and justice for the Thracians but abject slavery. The Chalcidians, and Amphipolitans in particular have been noble allies; indeed without their struggle the coffers of the Athenians would be full, their forges clanging with the sound of hammers as they build new armor and spears and their shipyards stinking of pitch from the construction of new ships. Their efforts and sacrifice is what have brought us such recent victories. To effectively sell these people for an unsustainable peace is a travesty and I feel I must add my voice to that of your general, Clearidas, who begs of you to ”reconsider this clause of the treaty if not the whole document.”
This treaty also asks that we turn our backs on the people of Megara and Tanagra; surely you do not intend to do such a great disservice to your allies, the Chalcidians, the Magerians, the Tanagrans, others? We too seek peace with the Athenians and a return to our farms and homes but we cannot simply wash our hands of the responsibilities we owe to our allies.
OOC: Where is Panactum?
OOC: It's the little bit of Boeotian-controlled territory separated by a white line from Thebes and Tanagra which is traditionally part of Attica; it borders a little bit on Theban territory and mostly on Tanagran territory. It isn't worth much except strategically. The only important thing there is the fort (Panactum), which the Boeotians captured a few years ago.
The Boule of Athens, unless it sees reason to change its mind, will not allow the Ambassadors from Thebes to approach the Ekklesia, which has already spoken its mind on the issue. The Boule has no present intention that there should be any debate on the Megarian Decree during the current year.
[OOC: If any player-controlled Athenian politician opposes this, the Boule will almost certainly change its mind to accommodate the politician's wishes.]
[OOC: If any player-controlled Athenian politician opposes this, the Boule will almost certainly change its mind to accommodate the politician's wishes.]
Immaculate
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OOC: whats that mean?
OOC: The Boule (Council of 500, the Executive of the Athenian state) will not call a meeting of the Ekklesia (the Assembly of the whole Athenian people) to discuss Panactum or Megara, unless an Athenian player intercedes to persuade the Boule otherwise. The Boule presently takes the line that the matter of Megara was decided long ago by the decree Pericles proposed a decade ago, and that you, as Sparta's ally, are bound to adhere to the Treaty as currently negotiated, which requires you to give back Panactum, which is a part of Athenian soil just as Pylos is a part of Spartan soil and Atalanta is a piece of Locrian soil.
If you wish to negotiate, the Boule is not the people to do it with. You should be talking to the politicians if you want to negotiate, so that they might intercede.
If you wish to negotiate, the Boule is not the people to do it with. You should be talking to the politicians if you want to negotiate, so that they might intercede.
Immaculate
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This NES has a really sharp learning curve for me (not a bad thing)... just explaining some confusion.
skeptikalz!
The Truth and the Lie
Elis maintains the stance conveyed in this post:
To Sparta and all other Greek Cities
From Elis
Lepreum is our subject and anyone that intervenes there commits a grievous crime and insult against the Elean people. Furthermore, we do not accept the treaty because it is unfair.
To the Peloponnesian League
From Elis
We implore you to follow us and not to accept this utterly disgraceful treaty.
Also, keep in mind that the Olympic Games are not this year, but the next one.
To Sparta and all other Greek Cities
From Elis
Lepreum is our subject and anyone that intervenes there commits a grievous crime and insult against the Elean people. Furthermore, we do not accept the treaty because it is unfair.
To the Peloponnesian League
From Elis
We implore you to follow us and not to accept this utterly disgraceful treaty.
Also, keep in mind that the Olympic Games are not this year, but the next one.
mythmonster2
BEC NOIR! RUN!
I'm sorry, but certain situations outside of my control have reduced my free time. I'll have to drop this, and, again, sorry for having to drop so early into the game.
erez87
Lord of Random
I lay a claim to Taras, but please wait for me to make that sure.
Taras is orange in southern Italy I assume. Anything I should know about it a part from how weak it is?
Taras is orange in southern Italy I assume. Anything I should know about it a part from how weak it is?
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Confirming Alcibiades.
erez87
Lord of Random
OOC: where are Cumae stats? What is the Samnite force, and other Italian states?
TARAS
to Cumae
We will attempt to aid your forces before they are gone. In the case we are too late we will also send a fleet to help you evacuate your citizens so they could join us in Taras for protection.
to Thurii:
The barbarians of Italia are upon us. Cumae might soon fall to the Samnites. We call upon you to sign an alliance to protect us from the barbarians and support others against them as well. Cumae must be saved.
to Other Italian Greek States:
The fall of Cumae will mark the coming end for the Greeks in Magne Grecia! We implore you all to help us in support of Cumae!
to Syracuse:
The greatness your city achieved from starting as a mere colony is for us a glimmer of hope. We wish to discuss with your city-state about a possible alliance, and wish to request aid for aid from your fine city in the defense of Italia.
TARAS
to Cumae
We will attempt to aid your forces before they are gone. In the case we are too late we will also send a fleet to help you evacuate your citizens so they could join us in Taras for protection.
to Thurii:
The barbarians of Italia are upon us. Cumae might soon fall to the Samnites. We call upon you to sign an alliance to protect us from the barbarians and support others against them as well. Cumae must be saved.
to Other Italian Greek States:
The fall of Cumae will mark the coming end for the Greeks in Magne Grecia! We implore you all to help us in support of Cumae!
to Syracuse:
The greatness your city achieved from starting as a mere colony is for us a glimmer of hope. We wish to discuss with your city-state about a possible alliance, and wish to request aid for aid from your fine city in the defense of Italia.
You can't be sure. Cumae is a city smaller than your city, and there are a fair number of Samnites.
From Cumae
To Taras
Thank you very much indeed! We are delighted to see that we Greeks may finally be taking a stand together against the barbarian. There are about one and a half thousand hoplites and cavalry currently under arms here, because we have already been defeated and are currently under siege. We will send our small fleet of ten ships to help convoy your troops. Please come quickly or we will soon fall, as we are running out of food and many of our soldiers lack weapons.
erez87
Lord of Random
ooc: Will spies be able to give me more correct information? What's my chance in a war? And I guess the other NPC city states care little for this?
from Taras
to Cumae:
We do not know about all the Greeks, but we in Taras wish to see the Greeks in Italia succeed. We also must be pessimistic as we most likely cannot force the Samnites out of your city state or even defeat them in battle by ourselves. At the very least we shall aid your population in evacuating and will attempt to slow down the Samnites.
To Taras
From Cumae
You can do a great deal to help, as a sizeable force will enable us to give battle to the Samnites, or to hold out long enough by disrupting their lines that they give up. We would sooner pay tribute to the Samnites than evacuate.
OOC: If you ask nicely some of the NPCs of various sorts might be interested, especially if you give them some reason to. You have no spies in Cumae - although merchants say that the Cumaeans are telling the truth, that is to say they are running out of energy, food and replacement weapons - and it is for you to judge what your chances of success might be.
erez87
Lord of Random
Taras
to Metapontium, Rhegium, Croton, Epizephyrian Locris:
The Italian barbarians are growing in power and aggression towards our city states. Will you sign an alliance with the state of Taras and join us to aid Cumae? Let us put our differences aside, for us Greater Greeks must stand together before the onslaught of the Samnite and other barbarians.
to Cumae:
We will do out best to aid you. But please keep in mind, the Samnites will not take tribute, but your lives!
to Metapontium, Rhegium, Croton, Epizephyrian Locris:
The Italian barbarians are growing in power and aggression towards our city states. Will you sign an alliance with the state of Taras and join us to aid Cumae? Let us put our differences aside, for us Greater Greeks must stand together before the onslaught of the Samnite and other barbarians.
to Cumae:
We will do out best to aid you. But please keep in mind, the Samnites will not take tribute, but your lives!
To Taras
From Metapontium
We are ever your allies and are happy to send some men on our ships to accompany you, but we fear the likelihood of large-scale Lucanian raids - maybe even an all-out invasion - if many of us leave the city. We would need a clear assurance that all the cavalry from Taras, Metapontium and Heraclea would stay behind under arms (not that our ships are equipped to carry cavalry). We would also need to keep back a substantial force of infantry, and we should not be entirely happy unless Thurii joined the expedition.
To Taras
From Croton
We care little about this, but we will give you anchorage and food on your voyage, and you are free to try to recruit volunteers here.
To Taras
From Locri and Rhegium
We are too worried about the present instability within our own metropolis and colonies to help.
From Metapontium
We are ever your allies and are happy to send some men on our ships to accompany you, but we fear the likelihood of large-scale Lucanian raids - maybe even an all-out invasion - if many of us leave the city. We would need a clear assurance that all the cavalry from Taras, Metapontium and Heraclea would stay behind under arms (not that our ships are equipped to carry cavalry). We would also need to keep back a substantial force of infantry, and we should not be entirely happy unless Thurii joined the expedition.
To Taras
From Croton
We care little about this, but we will give you anchorage and food on your voyage, and you are free to try to recruit volunteers here.
To Taras
From Locri and Rhegium
We are too worried about the present instability within our own metropolis and colonies to help.
