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SprylliNES V: The Peloponnesian War

Discussion in 'Never Ending Stories' started by spryllino, Sep 28, 2011.

  1. erez87

    erez87 Lord of Random

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    Location:
    Lod, Israel
    TARAS

    to Metapontium
    We agree. Cavalry and a strong force must be left behind to defend our own lands. We intend to send 5000 hoplites and our navy to the aid of Cumae, 4000 Tarentines and 1000 Heracleans. We believe Metapontium will be able to send between 1000-2000 hoplites as well, and we promise to use our men back at home to aid in protecting all of our lands - ours as well as yours.

    to Croton:
    We thank you for the anchorage and the freedom to recruit volunteers. We still do implore you to support us, the barbarians are ever on the rise, and care must be given if they are to be defeated.

    to Locri and Rhegium:
    We understand. If you wish for us to support you in stabilizing your states in the future, we would appreciate aid in the Cumae Campaign, but we will not push this hard for you must put yourself above others first.


    to Cumae:
    We can promise 5000 infantry to arrive at first together with whatever the Metapontine could muster in support. We hope more Greeks from the homelands will join and we will make an official call for volunteers for your cause, for it is a true and honorable cause.

    to the Greek World:
    We call upon the states, and to private volunteers to aid the Greeks in Cumae! If their city will fall it will be a great loss for all Greeks in the world, and will sign the end of Greek Cultural and Militaristic supremacy over Italia and the world! Volunteers are welcome to amass in Taras and Metapontium, and with their words also are welcome to arrive in Croton when we stop there.
     
  2. spryllino

    spryllino Deity

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    To Taras
    From Posidonia and Elea


    We will also contribute men and ships when your fleet passes. May we defeat the Samnites utterly and drive them back so that they may never again threaten our cities.

    OOC: You might like to consider the practicality of sending 5000 men on 20 ships and compare to the Athenian Sicilian Expedition of OTL.
     
  3. erez87

    erez87 Lord of Random

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    ooc: I see. What would be a more normal number for the number of ships I will muster (10 from Cumae, 20 of mine, 5 from Metapontium)? 100 ships and 5000 men. I see. That means I could sea about 1500-2000 altogether by sea? Problematic :p
    50 men per boat, that's just a thousand men.

    We can move our ships several times an year to bring more men...

    TARAS

    EDIT TO CUMAE:
    We will send as many men as could fit in our ships!

    to Posidonia and Elea:
    This are truly wondrous news. Us Greeks must stand united before the barbarians and bring them to their knees, that is the true order of the world. Greek cities should never feel threatened by the likes of the Samnites.

    to Sicilian City State:
    You are nearby and highly needed. Will we see support from you?


    to Sparta:
    Great fatherland of ours. The Peloponnese war have been going for many years and we hear peace accords have been discussed. We need your support! The barbarians are ever on the rise here on Italia and aid is needed in order to push them away before Cumae falls. With your fame and strength you can influence others to join this plea as well. The barbarians are numerous, far more than us, every man is needed.
     
  4. spryllino

    spryllino Deity

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    From various Sicilian States (in more words)
    To Taras


    No.

    From Cumae
    To Taras


    We fear that if you try to provide for 5000 hoplites' journeys and send them to us, you will not be able to manage this within the year, by which time we will certainly have fallen.
     
  5. erez87

    erez87 Lord of Random

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    to Cumae:
    We will send what we can in this year while preparing to send more in the coming years. For now we will maintain the campaign to keep the walls from falling. Once enough resources and men have been organized we will push the Samnites away. The survival of your city will come first.
     
  6. spryllino

    spryllino Deity

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    OOC: I've considered it, and I reckon your situation is different to Athens's. I will allow you to load 3500 men on 35 ships (ignoring logistical factors that may affect this); I think the main reason Athens didn't is that it didn't actually have enough hoplites to fill its ships.
     
  7. erez87

    erez87 Lord of Random

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    Haha! Good. And it's Ok, I can always confiscate merchant ships if needed to carry men and resources.

    3500/35= 100 Hoplites per ship. That sounds decent. 100 should be the average and the state should find a way to handle food etc... Less than a 100 per ship should be easier for the state as they can fill the ships with food for logistics, and more would require food to be in the target, and it must be close by in itself.
     
  8. spryllino

    spryllino Deity

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    OOC NOTICE:

    I have made a few last changes to map and stats, notably in the toe of Italy and in giving Elis an internal boundary.
     
  9. Yui108

    Yui108 Deity

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    Chicago
    OOC: confirming demosthenes.
     
  10. spryllino

    spryllino Deity

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    Possible Goals:

    On request, I suggest these are the possible goals of each faction. Use them however you think best. I provide them merely because some of you current or prospective players may not have a clear basic idea of what your state's interests are. Feel free to vary them according to your own preferences, of course, as that's part of the point of a NES.

    Spoiler :

    Nicias/Shadowbound

    - To promote the interests of the party of the rich;
    - To promote his own reputation as general and peacemaker;
    - To preserve the peace just negotiated by himself;
    - To avoid being disgraced;
    - To avoid another command, because of cowardice, ill health, and the desire to keep an immaculate reputation for luck and competence.

    Alcibiades/Thlayli

    - To carve a niche for himself at Athens;
    - To become famous and important;
    - To gain a military reputation;
    - To improve the fortune and reputation of the Alcmaeonid family.

    Hyperbolus/?

    - To become the leader of the People by demagogy;
    - To undermine political opponents.

    Demosthenes/Yui108

    - To have as much military success as possible;
    - To avoid involvement in politics.

    Lamachus/Dachs

    - To have as much military success as possible;
    - To defend the interests of Athens.

    Sparta/das

    - To assert thorough hegemony over the Peloponnese;
    - To avoid helot revolt;
    - To avoid losing too many Spartiates;
    - To prevent Athens gaining too much power.

    Corinth/The Strategos

    - To reassert control of colonies such as Corcyra and Potidaea, or alternatives;
    - To reassert control of major Aegean and Adriatic trade routes;
    - To defeat Athens by almost any means.

    Elis/skeptikalz!

    - To maintain control of the Olympic Games;
    - To control Triphylia, including Lepreum.

    Mantinea/Kentharu

    - To control Arcadia;
    - To be independent of Sparta as far as possible;
    - To outdo Tegea (the city to the south in firm alliance with Sparta).

    Argos/Kraznaya

    - To gain hegemony in the Peloponnese;
    - To regain control of the Thyreatis and Cynuria;
    - To remain a democracy.

    Achaean League/NPC

    - No major aims.

    League of Acte/NPC

    - To avoid domination by Argos.

    Thebes/Immaculate

    - To maintain and increase control over the Boeotian League;
    - To defend Boeotia and its interests against imperialism from Athens or anyone else;
    - To be supported by independent Boeotian states (Orchomenus and Tanagra).

    Larissa/Espoir

    - To dominate the Thessalian League;
    - To ensure the continued dominance of the Aleuads in the city and elsewhere.

    Pharsalus

    - To dominate the Thessalian League;
    - To balance the continued dominance of the Aleuads in Thessaly.

    Pherae

    - To become richer and more populous through trade.

    Subjects and Allies:
    Perrhaebi 2000/0 - To not be invaded from Macedonia or Illyria.
    Magnetes 1500/0 - To not be encroached on by Larissa or Pherae.
    Achaei 2000/0 - To not be encroached on by Pharsalus or Heraclea-in-Trachis.
    Aenianes 2000/0 - To not be encroached on by Heraclea-in-Trachis.
    Dolopes 3000/700 - To not be encroached on by Athenians or Peloponnesians fighting in the Aetolian theatre.
    Paralians 500/0 - To liberate the Trachinians from the Spartans.
    Hiereans 500/0 - To liberate the Trachinians from the Spartans.

    League of the Chalcidians in Thrace/?

    - To be independent of Athens and not to pay tribute;
    - To make as many Athenian possessions revolt as possible;
    - To hold Amphipolis regardless of the Peace of Nicias.

    Macedonia/Ekolite

    - To conquer surrounding regions;
    - To avoid being seriously attacked by anyone;
    - To avoid being ravaged by Illyrians or Thracians.

    Lyncus

    - To maintain independence;
    - To maintain cohesion.

    Molossis

    - To maintain monarchy;
    - To dominate Epirus;
    - To not be raided by Illyrians.

    Chaonia

    - To not be interfered with by Greeks;
    - To not be raided by Illyrians.

    Thesprotis

    - To not be interfered with by Greeks;
    - To not be raided by Illyrians.

    Carthage/Permanent NPC

    - To defend traders' interests in Sicily and the Western Mediterranean;
    - To avoid the loss of native manpower or default on payment of mercenaries;
    - To head off threats to Punic settlements in western Sicily.

    Egesta/?

    - To avoid defeat by Selinus;
    - To main good relations with Carthage.

    Syracuse/Gen. Mannerheim

    - To maintain the position of being the most important state in Sicily;
    - To defeat the Leontinian democrats;
    - To keep non-Sicilian parties from intervention in Sicily against Syracuse's interests.

    Chalcidian League in Sicily/?

    - To avoid being dominated by Syracuse;
    - To avoid Oligarchic revolutions.

    Gela/?

    - To be independent, especially of Ionians;
    - To reassert its former importance before Gelon became tyrant at Syracuse.

    Camarina/?

    - To avoid being dominated by Syracuse or any other state.

    Acragas/?

    - To be prosperous and independent.

    Selinus/?

    - To maintain good relations with Syracuse, for the sake of trade and security;
    - To maintain good relations with Carthage, for the sake of trade and security;
    - To expand, particularly at the expense of Egesta.

    Himera/?

    - To be prosperous and independent;
    - To avoid being threatened by Carthage.

    Rhegium/?

    - To be prosperous;
    - If possible, to control Locri or Messina;
    - To compete with Locri;
    - To support the Ionians elsewhere in Magna Graecia.

    Epizephyrian Locris/?

    - To maintain control of Medma and Hipponium;
    - To compete with Rhegium and generally support Dorians and oligarchies;
    - If possible, to control Rhegium or Messina;
    - To compete with Croton.

    Caulonia/NPC

    - To maintain a quiet and insignificant independence.

    Croton/?

    - To maintain control of its territory, including Terina and Scylletium;
    - To compete with Thurii and Locri.

    Thurii/TheLizardKing

    - To defend against the Lucanians and avoid raids;
    - To compete with Taras and Thurii;
    - To maintain control of Laus.

    Metapontium/?

    - To keep on the right side of Taras;
    - To keep the Lucanians out of its territory.

    Taras/mythmonster2

    - To defeat the Lucanians;
    - To expand its control of the coastline and widen into the interior;
    - To be acknowledged as the leading state in Greek Italy, perhaps through use of the occasional Italiote League, which last met at Heraclea;
    - To compete with Thurii and Metapontium;
    - To be prosperous.
     
  11. erez87

    erez87 Lord of Random

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    TARAS
    to Metapontium:
    After much consideration we decided that other than sending forces to Cumae in support of our Greek brothers, we must push on into Lucanian territory to pacify them and have a second route against the Samnites.

    Messengers to Etruscan villages around the Samnites:
    We share a common enemy. Capua fell not long ago and we will fight to protect out brothers in Cumae. Support in rescuing Cumae, and perhaps Capua, is welcome.
     
  12. spryllino

    spryllino Deity

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    To Taras
    From Metapontium


    Very well. We shall join you.

    The messengers report that they were unable to find any Etruscan settlements left anywhere south of Veii that are not actually subject to the Samnites.
     
  13. das

    das Regeneration In Process

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    Location:
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    Sparta confirms its commitment to the peace agreement reached with Athens.

    Sparta likewise promises to provide assistance to Taras and Cumae, and implores Syracuse to lend its assistance to this cause as well.
     
  14. spryllino

    spryllino Deity

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    The Athenian Boule (Council) will officially meet on this thread on Thursday at 11pm GMT (so afternoon in America).

    All motions for the Assembly must be posted in thread by that time, or they will not be considered. The same goes for any embassies to the Athenian people.

    The Boule will give the go-ahead to the motions, and then the Athenian Ekklesia
    (Assembly) will meet on Friday at 2.30pm GMT to approve or vote down the motions.

    Athenian players are welcome to speak to the Assembly in order to influence how they vote on the motions at any time between now and 2.30 GMT on Friday.


    Orders will then be due by the end of Friday, wherever that falls in your timezone. I will probably update on Saturday evening, so this will be a strict deadline.
     
  15. Thlayli

    Thlayli Le Pétit Prince

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    In the desert
    From: Alcibiades
    To: The Athenian Boule And Assembly


    We must consider, fellow Athenians, the effects of the peace which has now been placed upon our shoulders.

    It cannot be denied that more had been sought, or hoped for, from this Spartan war, and it cannot be denied that those who sought victory might have been more courageous in seeking it. But accusations of cowardice, whatever their merits, should not be tolerated. Malice towards the enemy might be tolerated, for the hatred they bear for our city's glory is born of the most wretched vulgarity, but malice towards our own leaders, all of whom have acted in Athenian interests, albeit tempered by their own, cannot be condoned.

    Let us act always in the interests of our city, not our personal glory. And if glory come to us, let it only be as a lesser shade of that glory which enriches all of Athens and her people, for the demos should be set above all.

    I move that we honor the peace negotiated by our fair son Nicias, for while it is a flawed peace, and requires us to abandon a position from which victory might be attained, to divide Athens between partisans of war and of peace against Sparta would not ennoble us in the eyes of Hellas, and would not win us alliances if it can be seen that our agreements are not to be trusted.

    But we have been handed fair fruit from the tree of peace. Sparta has agreed to honor the peace with Athens, and Athens must honor the peace with Sparta, but Sparta's allies, smaller and weaker than herself, have stood firm in their unending malice. I speak of Corinth and the Boeotians.

    We must use this opportunity to press the assault in Boeotia with the removal of Sparta from this war. The Peace that exists stands between Athens and Sparta alone, if Sparta's allies refuse it, we are not dishonored by chastising them for their folly, as the noble men of Athens have done in the past, and shall do in the future, until their power is destroyed utterly, and replaced with those in whom the trust of the Athenians can be placed.

    I move that the Peace of Nicias be honored with Sparta and Sparta alone, and that the prisoners be freed, but also that three commanders be tasked with the destruction of Corinth and Thebes, and additional soldiers and ships be raised for this purpose. If, then, Sparta chooses to dishonor the peace and come to the aid of her vicious allies, she shall be greatly stained by treachery, and Athens vindicated in the eyes of all neutrals.
     
  16. spryllino

    spryllino Deity

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    From Nicias
    To the Athenian Boule and Assembly, and to the Thebans and other Boeotians


    I, Nicias, support Alcibiades's motion, and I congratulate him on making such a creditable entry into politics with such a useful and responsible proposal. I urge the Athenian people to nominate as generals Alcibiades himself, Lamachus, and Demosthenes (on the basis that Demosthenes will assume his new command as soon as he has handed over Pylos).

    We urge the Thebans to accept the peace immediately and stop rambling on about the honour of the young men of Tanagra, in order to avert the necessity of destroying so many of those same young men, and we urge the young men of Tanagra and Orchomenus to, just so, see what's right for them and accept the treaty as independent allies of Sparta.

    From Tanagra
    To Thebes


    In our opinion, it would be best to accept the treaty, although we will defend our fatherland whatever you do.

    OOC: Nicias is NPC until a) I see Shadowbound come online and he doesn't show up; b) we get to next Tuesday and someone else wants it; c) Shadowbound takes it.
     
  17. Thlayli

    Thlayli Le Pétit Prince

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    I am humbly willing to accept such a nomination by Nicias and the people of Athens, though I recommend that in place of Demosthenes, Nicias himself be nominated for a second command. For his experience and victories show that he is more worthy for the command than any other, and we accept his omission of his own name as a sign of humility. As such, I urge the nomination of Nicias.
     
  18. spryllino

    spryllino Deity

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    Nicias to the Athenian people

    In the light of Demosthenes's recent glowing successes at Pylos, I do think he is a much better choice for the command, and so I urge you to vote for my proposal that he be given it.
     
  19. Yui108

    Yui108 Deity

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    To: The People of Athens
    From: Demosthenes

    I do not wish to ferment discontent, but should it be wished I accept command, I shall do so.
     
  20. spryllino

    spryllino Deity

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    From Nicias
    To the Athenian People


    I move that the Athenian people should make a defensive alliance with Sparta in order to reinforce the treaty and prevent the disruption of the peace by any other state.

    1. The Lacedaemonians shall be allies of the Athenians for fifty years.

    2. Should any enemy invade the territory of Lacedaemon and injure the Lacedaemonians, the Athenians shall help them in such way as they most effectively can, according to their power. But if the invader be gone after plundering the country, that city shall be the enemy of Lacedaemon and Athens, and shall be chastised by both, and one shall not make peace without the other. This to be honestly, loyally, and without fraud.

    3. Should any enemy invade the territory of Athens and injure the Athenians, the Lacedaemonians shall help them in such way as they most effectively can, according to their power. But if the invader be gone after plundering the country, that city shall be the enemy of Lacedaemon and Athens, and shall be chastised by both, and one shall not make peace without the other. This to be honestly, loyally, and without fraud.

    4. Should the slave population rise, the Athenians shall help the Lacedaemonians with all their might, according to their power.

    5. This treaty shall be sworn to by the same persons on either side that swore to the other. It shall be renewed annually by the Lacedaemonians going to Athens for the Dionysia, and the Athenians to Lacedaemon for the Hyacinthia, and a pillar shall be set up by either party; at Lacedaemon near the statue of Apollo at Amyclae, and at Athens on the Acropolis near the statue of Athena. Should the Lacedaemonians and Athenians see fit to add to or take away from the alliance in any particular, it shall be consistent with their oaths for both parties to do so, according to their discretion.

    [OOC: Thucydides V.23]
     

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