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SprylliNES V: The Peloponnesian War

Discussion in 'Never Ending Stories' started by spryllino, Sep 28, 2011.

  1. Thlayli

    Thlayli Le Pétit Prince

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    This proposal, prudent as it might be, is premature. Let us wait to see if Sparta abides by the terms of the peace, and does not lend aid or comfort to those cities which still bear hatred for Athens.
     
  2. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

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    OOC: Is Shadowbound definitely not going to be playing, then?
     
  3. spryllino

    spryllino Deity

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    Thus Nicias is NPC for the moment.
     
  4. The Strategos

    The Strategos Thanatos

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    Since it was not addressed to me, I won't directly respond to it, but hopefully someone will think to bring up in the Athenian assembly that what a majority of the Peloponnesian League agrees to is binding upon all. Thus by the very fact that the Peloponnesian League agreed to the treaty (despite any individual objections) by a majority vote means Corinth, as member of said league, is a signature to the treaty and any attack upon it is a violation of said treaty.

    But hey, if Athens wants to break its oaths to the gods, I'm sure the Erinyes will understand.
     
  5. spryllino

    spryllino Deity

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    From Nicias
    To Corinth


    Does Corinth intend to adhere to the Treaty then, as a member of the Peloponnesian League?
     
  6. Thlayli

    Thlayli Le Pétit Prince

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    If Corinth submits meekly to the treaty, we will consider it bound. But if the Boeotians persist in their aggression, we will have no choice but to punish them.

    Thebes must immediately consent to the return of Panactum, or they will suffer our wrath.
     
  7. Kentharu

    Kentharu Zebra Commander

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    So I'm here and things.
    Mantinea shall now take diplomacy. Tremble and fear.
     
  8. das

    das Regeneration In Process

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    It has always been Sparta's understanding that Corinth has accepted the treaty. The ones causing both of us difficulties right now are further north.
     
  9. erez87

    erez87 Lord of Random

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    Tell me if my orders are fine! Other than that - sent!
     
  10. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

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    From: Lamachos
    To: The Athenian boule and ekklesia


    Fellow Athenians,

    I find it surprising that men who had just chosen to forsake war instead of peace, and let the spiders weave cobwebs amid their abandoned spears, find themselves in support of this proposal from young Alkibiades.

    By the terms of the peace just sworn with the Lakedaimonians and their allies, the Lakedaimonians themselves are bound to enforce the provisions; it is they who must convince the Boiotians to return Panakton, and they who must aid us in recovering Amphipolis. Why should we expose ourselves by undertaking to do things which are not our responsibility? Let the Lakedaimonians carry out those provisions of the peace, while we return Pylos, Kythera, and the other places we have sworn to return.

    And if the Lakedaimonians find themselves unable to compel their allies to fulfill their obligations by the treaty, we should naturally aid them in doing so and in recovering what is rightfully ours. But let us concentrate on those places which are most important to us. The treachery that lost us Panakton was as grievous as the loss of a finger, yes; but the loss of Amphipolis was as the loss of an arm. Surely we should recover those places more important first, by reestablishing our rule in Amphipolis and the other cities of the north, and collecting the agreed tribute from the rest, before worrying about the issue of Panakton, which is less important and which may cause a war between the Athenians and Boiotians.

    Men of Athens, why should we fight a full scale war to recover Panakton, while Amphipolis remains outside our control?

    I do not say that we should scorn to regain Panakton if we can, of course. The loss of a finger is painful, even if it is not as bad as the loss of an arm. And I do not say that the Boiotians will refuse to return it, for they may very well do so. But if they do not return Panakton, let us act to regain it if we are certain of Amphipolis, and certain that the Lakedaimonians carry out their sworn treaty obligations and help us in recovering our lost territory.
     
  11. spryllino

    spryllino Deity

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    The Assembly passes the following Proboulomata to the Assembly (to meet tomorrow at 2.30pm GMT):

    1. On the proposal of Nicias, that the Athenian people be allied with Sparta, according to the following terms, in order to perpetuate the peace:

    Spoiler Proposed Treaty of Alliance :
    1. The Lacedaemonians shall be allies of the Athenians for fifty years.

    2. Should any enemy invade the territory of Lacedaemon and injure the Lacedaemonians, the Athenians shall help them in such way as they most effectively can, according to their power. But if the invader be gone after plundering the country, that city shall be the enemy of Lacedaemon and Athens, and shall be chastised by both, and one shall not make peace without the other. This to be honestly, loyally, and without fraud.

    3. Should any enemy invade the territory of Athens and injure the Athenians, the Lacedaemonians shall help them in such way as they most effectively can, according to their power. But if the invader be gone after plundering the country, that city shall be the enemy of Lacedaemon and Athens, and shall be chastised by both, and one shall not make peace without the other. This to be honestly, loyally, and without fraud.

    4. Should the slave population rise, the Athenians shall help the Lacedaemonians with all their might, according to their power.

    5. This treaty shall be sworn to by the same persons on either side that swore to the other. It shall be renewed annually by the Lacedaemonians going to Athens for the Dionysia, and the Athenians to Lacedaemon for the Hyacinthia, and a pillar shall be set up by either party; at Lacedaemon near the statue of Apollo at Amyclae, and at Athens on the Acropolis near the statue of Athena. Should the Lacedaemonians and Athenians see fit to add to or take away from the alliance in any particular, it shall be consistent with their oaths for both parties to do so, according to their discretion.


    2. That on the proposal of Alcibiades, an expedition should be equipped, to make war on Boeotia, unless Boeotia accepts the treaty before the Athenian army reaches the border; and that three generals should be chosen for the expedition; and that the three generals should be Alcibiades, Lamachus, and Demosthenes, according to Nicias's proposal.

    Proposals to amend the Probouleuma may already have been made, and more can be made now, for consideration at the Assembly. So far:

    Alcibiades has tabled an amendment to elect Nicias rather than Demosthenes to the command in Boeotia.



    The deadline for orders is the end of tomorrow.
     
  12. Thlayli

    Thlayli Le Pétit Prince

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    I propose the amendment that Lamachos be allowed to attempt with his troops to regain Amphipolis, while the other two commanders make war upon Boiotia unless they accept the terms of the peace and return Panactum unharmed.

    OOC: I'm afraid the meeting time for the Assembly (early morning East Coast USA) is utterly unworkable for me and most of the others. I propose a postponement.
     
  13. Gen.Mannerheim

    Gen.Mannerheim Grand Moff

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    To Himera, Selinus, Acragas, Camarina and Gela
    It is the wish the leaders if Syracuse that a conference be held in Syracuse, before the almighty Zeus and Ares (our patron) to discuss the prospects of greater cooperation betwixt out peoples. A stronger league between our cities to provide greater economic, political, and military unity among the Dorians of Sicily would be our upmost priority. At this time where we of Dorian decent are being encircled by natives, Phoenicians, and especially Chalcidians is it not wise to join together to help prevent the bloody history that the motherland just emerged from engulfing our fair island?

    To Taras
    We are unable to commit to an outright alliance with your great city in principle at this time. Instead, we invite you to send us a delegation to Syracuse to discuss what you had in mind in regards to an alliance.

    To our sister under siege
    The government of Syracuse wants to express our strongest desire to aid you in this time of need. Regrettably, as we are currently engaged in a righteous campaign to restore the proper government to Leontini and are this unable to send ground troops at this present moment until after this issue is resolved. Should this local crisis be resolved in a timely manner, then the issue of military aid for you will be reevaluated. However, We are making large public sacrifices at the altar of Ares our patron for the safety and security of the citizens of Cumae and proclaim that a convoy of much needed supplies of grain and other materials will be sent to you in a convoy protected by 10 warships to help mitigate you hardships in this trial.

    Camarina and Gela
    Esteemed allies,
    The government of Syracuse is currently engaged in a war to restore the proper government to the city of Leontini. To help achieve our goal, we humbly request that you each send 100 cavalry to assist with our operations against the rebels. Your troops have the guarantee of the government of Syracuse that they will be protected in our territory as well as fully supplied from the stores of the army of Syracuse while both en-route and while on campaign with us.
     
  14. das

    das Regeneration In Process

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    I'd rather like to know the Athenians' final decision before I send orders.
     
  15. Espoir

    Espoir Warlord

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    Seems rather unfair to the Athenians that all their enemies would have knowledge of what they plan to do before they decide how to act. I understand the mechanism of having Athens deliberate publicly, but that other states would perfectly how they resolved seems a bit strange.
     
  16. das

    das Regeneration In Process

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    It is more that I am waiting for their final decisions with regards to diplomacy. Or have those already been reached?
     
  17. spryllino

    spryllino Deity

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    Psephismata (Decisions of the Assembly):

    1. That on the proposal of Nicias, the Athenian people be allied with Sparta, according to the following terms, in order to perpetuate the peace:

    Spoiler Proposed Treaty of Alliance :
    1. The Lacedaemonians shall be allies of the Athenians for fifty years.

    2. Should any enemy invade the territory of Lacedaemon and injure the Lacedaemonians, the Athenians shall help them in such way as they most effectively can, according to their power. But if the invader be gone after plundering the country, that city shall be the enemy of Lacedaemon and Athens, and shall be chastised by both, and one shall not make peace without the other. This to be honestly, loyally, and without fraud.

    3. Should any enemy invade the territory of Athens and injure the Athenians, the Lacedaemonians shall help them in such way as they most effectively can, according to their power. But if the invader be gone after plundering the country, that city shall be the enemy of Lacedaemon and Athens, and shall be chastised by both, and one shall not make peace without the other. This to be honestly, loyally, and without fraud.

    4. Should the slave population rise, the Athenians shall help the Lacedaemonians with all their might, according to their power.

    5. This treaty shall be sworn to by the same persons on either side that swore to the other. It shall be renewed annually by the Lacedaemonians going to Athens for the Dionysia, and the Athenians to Lacedaemon for the Hyacinthia, and a pillar shall be set up by either party; at Lacedaemon near the statue of Apollo at Amyclae, and at Athens on the Acropolis near the statue of Athena. Should the Lacedaemonians and Athenians see fit to add to or take away from the alliance in any particular, it shall be consistent with their oaths for both parties to do so, according to their discretion.


    Sworn to by twenty representatives of the Athenian people.

    2. That on the proposal of Alcibiades, an expedition should be equipped, to make war on Boeotia, unless Boeotia accepts the treaty before the Athenian army reaches the border or Panactum surrenders before the Athenian expedition enters Boeotia; and that three generals should be chosen, Nicias, Alcibiades, and Lamachus. If Panactum surrenders or if the Boeotians accept the treaty, the army will not invade Boeotia. The Assembly orders a general levy of all the younger hoplites (15000 hoplites) with accompanying psiloi and all the cavalry, for this purpose.

    3. That on the proposal of Alcibiades, an expedition should be equipped, as soon as the expedition has returned from Boeotia, if that is before autumn, and next year if not, consisting of 40 ships and 2500 hoplites, to sail for Thrace under the command of Lamachus, with the aim of recovering Amphipolis.


    --------------------

    The deadline for orders is the end of tomorrow.
    If you can't manage that, though, and you get them in by 7pm GMT on Saturday, that will do. Any later and you'll miss the start of the updating process.

    ---------------------

    das: please sign for the Treaty.

    Espoir: I understand your point; I may do something about it as the NES continues if I feel it's necessary. By the way, you know there's a load of diplo for Larissa on the front page?

    I, Nicias, oppose the notion of splitting our forces by equipping a force to leave for Amphipolis until the war with Boeotia is over, and so I propose an amendment that the expedition should set sail for Amphipolis as soon as the war is ended in Boeotia.

    You don't all have to be there, Thlayli. The Assembly "meets" in just the same way as the Council meets, i.e. in the post I'm going to post specifying their decisions.

    By the way, you probably should have specified troop numbers, but you didn't, so the Assembly determined troop numbers without you.

    We are always open to conferences if you have something important to say.

    Thank you very much.

    OOC: You sent me a PM of war plans; I need all orders of all types specified in a single PM please, including any orders such as sending food to Cumae.

    We will send a small force depending on the number of willing cavalrymen.
     
  18. das

    das Regeneration In Process

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    The new treaty or the old one? Regardless, consider it signed.
     
  19. Thlayli

    Thlayli Le Pétit Prince

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    From: Alcibiades of Athens
    To: Sparta


    We sternly and sincerely hope that the Lacedaemonians will compel their allies to adhere to the treaty which we have signed.

    Our evacuation of Pylos and those other places which we have taken shall be accomplished soon, however, we insist that the Spartans do all in their power to compel the people of Amphipolis to return to Athens her rightful mother.

    Furthermore, we hope that you shall do everything in your power to compel the Boiotians to accept the treaty, and thereby avoid the necessity of ravaging their land.
     
  20. Espoir

    Espoir Warlord

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    Can someone clarify this for me: Why would the Athenians need to send a fleet to and army to Amphipolis to recover it when it is currently under Spartan control? The Spartans have assented to the treaty and should give it back without battle, should it not?
     

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