Star Trek Mafia: The Original Spewing - Crew and 3P win

[pzelda]

I am finishing to read the last pages then I'll be back with wall posts about D1. Rereading it I got the will to lunch into Takhisis, Arakhor, Yakostovian, and maybe Dolbster. The last one is getting more and more love from what I have just been reading

Please talk about your wolfreads and what makes you like Sommer's spot?

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

tak/Csargo voted for eachother yesterday when they could've voted Sommer and made it less likely that yesterday would've been Tak vs Csargo so I don't that they're mafia together (the Csargo/Tak/Sommer world conceded as possible)


Arak's prob maf but I think that regardless.

I will reread everything you said about wagonics because I didn't get the same feeling. Timing is important and a TAK/Csargo team couldn't get away with a Sommer lunch just by piling imo. That's the kind of obvious move which would be spotted before EOD and get them both tied for the lunch. I for one was under the impression that CSargo/Tak/Sommer was w/w/t so I am gonna reread your argument to see if I can get what you are saying. or if you are derailing.

I was voting Sommer yesterday, why would I defend them? I think it is just ridiculous to wagon tak because you think sommer is a wolf. Check if sommer is a wolf first, then get tak if they flip. Tak voted for a wolf, making them more likely to be villager. Don't put the cart before the horse people, if you are think Sommer is a wolf, space them then, it is illogical to do otherwise.

Why are you assuming everyone assumes Sommer is a wolf? You have been implying this since D2 start LA.

That is why I think we get Sommer first. If mafia were willing to kill one of their own, then Sommer must be an important role. Then if they turn up Klingon, we just go down the list and get the rest. All of the people in Zack's read list voted with Zack, when they did not have to. They could have tried to hide behind day 1 randomness, and maybe lynched easy targets like me, snerk, or monty, but they did not. So the only two options are that Sommer is an important maf, or Zack got a lucky read in on Csargo and the other reads are baseless

What about Zack wasn't all right, and some people are townie and trying to catch wolf with independent thinking?

Zack is not some omnipotent god, and should not be treated as such.

I am just quoting this for the kicks in case you are lunched D2

Thanks.

@topsecret liked this post. Get a room you two!

Please talk about your wolfreads and what makes you like Sommer's spot?

As I said near EOD, I think almost everything in his D1 was OMGUS/noobish/villagery. Except the thing about Takhisis being important. I asked explanations about it but none came for now. The fact that he is frozen since then is worrying though. I will reread him too before EOD, that's for sure.


Now on to my wall post.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

So suspicions on Takhisis/Arakhor/Yakostovian based on D1 rereading.

Spoiler Takhisis :

*sigh* you missed a Morse reference, but anyway… if you don't care that's scummy. But I hold that scummy is how every townie should be so that's OK.

This post triggered my vote on Takhisis yesterday. I still find it awfull (looking scummy may be OK if there is some unrequested solving mixed in, but stating that's counter-indicative of alignment is lolesque)

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And yet I was lynched on D1 last game.

Using Dolbster's post to justify his behavior. Forgetting to mention he randed scum two games ago and got away with it.

Either he's powerwolfing and leaving a lot of info for us or he's a genuine townie who's trying to get a grip on this game.

quoting for later reference. Potential Dolbster <> Takhisis connection here.

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Dolbster - as I said, either powerwolfing or genuine townie
Csargo - needs looking at
aimee - wtf
Syn - policy lynch, he annoys me while playing DotA
visor, monty, you, winston - I think you 4 cannot be v/v/v/v but it's a vibe
Mary - has voted Snerk, recalculating

The bad looking read list. Felt made up, no strong opinions within. Reassess now we know Csargo was klingon.

now there are 31 posts and a tiny wispy shade of gamesolving

conceding scum?

--------------

OMGUS
vote: Csargo

OK, there are 66% chances of a klingon lynch, let's bus to make that 50%.

Meanwhile, let's push a Sommer's lunch:

This post made me think that you were fishing…

…makes me think that you're still not to be trusted and you are a good candidate for a D1 lynch.

Now, Csargo's self-saving lurch on D1 makes me vote him even because I like these two new competing waggons. One's a rôle-fisher, the other's a mere self-saving person with little contributions to this thread. My participation generates a lot of indirect data through the many interactions… and hey, since I went off to do a RL thing now you're self-preserving, I might vote for you after all.

Actually Somemerswerd said he'd played mafia many many years ago so it's not his first game… he might be rusty but that's not the same as new. Also, he's a lawyer IRL

if that fails, let's try something else:

CFD?

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Hopefully.

Let's collect town cred, and quote that Arakhor's post with the "randomly" word in it. It might get into some heads.

Spoiler Arakhor :

Basically, it's Lord Argon or lurkers D1. slim as scum hunting.

Because it really worked for you last game, right?

You also see townies rarely so eager to lie to their town mates, but hey.

Tunneling on LordArgon.

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Anyone who, well, lurks in the background, not saying a lot, and maybe popping up to vote is a lurker. In the absence of a compelling mafia choice, a lurker might not be a terrible option.

While not being in full disagreement with this, it lacks the obvious townie advice to a noob: try to catch wolfs first. Just do't stay iddle voting lurkers!

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Do you have anything useful to add?

Vote: Argon.

Back on Argon. He seems to only be sharp regarding our compulsive claimer.

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There has been a whole lot of spam posted, so (as you no doubt can expect) I don't have any real scum reads at the moment.

I still think that Argon is likely to be a liability (though he's perfectly entitled to prove us wrong), Monty has been strangely quiet (just six posts all thread, so far) and Dolbster I thought was trying too hard really early on. I also noted Winston's fluff about Zack, but it's consistent with what I vaguely remember from years back.

Finally sharing a bit, but I really really dislike the first sentence of this post. "as you no doubt can expect", promoting self-made meta

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When you don't have anything else to go and you're just starting the game, that's the best time to focus on people not engaging with the game.

Again promoting to go after lurkers, when there are tones of info in the game.

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So, @Dolbster, does Argon pull all this supremely unfunny and unhelpful stuff in every game, or is there a reason you were going in hard on him being innocent?

Yes he does

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Did we just randomly lynch a scum on Day One?

I disliked this EOD poppin. Implying that was random might be a way to minor earlier Csargo's connections.

1000 posts over two days is what. Perhaps you could point me to what made your mind up for you or shall I just go back to utter incomprehension again?

fake!

Spoiler Yakostovian :

Yakostovian ( ) has some good posts imo... but it striked me how he has been backing Csargo and distancing from Tak (without scratching him) all day long... and pushing a sommer lunch (villager imo)

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Csargo is probably town, feeling muted because of the picture posting limitation.

Tak could go either way at this point.

His 2nd post is a read list. With Csargo TRed. Tak is null.

It's not meant to be an OMGUS, but
Vote: Sommerswerd

For pretty much what he said in his accusation of me. Few posts, little presence, no opinions (except of me.)
Vote can be rescinded if he gives more than one opinion.

but it is true OMGUS. Sticking to this line all day.

This first part was going to be a response about how I didn't call Tak scummy, then I realized he said as much himself. I forgot to delete that quote when I stumbled upon the second one.

Feel free to ignore this bit.

I am not ignoring that.

I'm willing to vote for monty to save someone I have a null on.

For the love of Jebus, I will never do that...

I don't think Tak is town, but I don't want to dogpile on Tak. I will move my vote near EOD if he looks like he is slipping away, but I do like Csargo for town, so I won't be voting for that particular counterwagon unless something significant sways my opinion.
For now, I am fine with my vote as it is, or, barring that, I am willing to vote for Mary.

liking Csargo for town, don't think Tak is town, but not willing to vote him bad read/incoherence or lying/distancing? Since there is a pattern in this D1, I am inclined to think it's the latter.

With the Csargo wagon gaining traction, I may find myself voting Tak to save my doggie buddy.

never did. stayed on sommer until the end. Again, that might be some kind of distancing.

Off to ISO Csargo to see what I've missed.

Probably going to miss EOD: hope to see Sommer stay in the lead

Csargo, when he's not just joking around:
Csargo votes visor, changes to Syn, seems to like Empoof and Argon (but not really) sheeps Zack onto Monty, gives some specific shade for monty, flatters winston, responds to the Winston vote, comments on zack voting for him, asks visor if he's going to vote for Csargo and finally a readslist in P#727 that I will need to revisit later.

"hope to see Sommer stay in the lead" OK... followed by a flat description of what Csargo did (aimee style). Not reading him whatsoever, it feels like a Csargo's rehabilitation attempt. Also not mentioning the content of the readslist which I found very bad.

I haven't done a full reread of Dolbster but I will do it eventually. I disliked his early attempt against me because it was really him trying to space me one hour into the game when everyone was basically trolling around. Then there is the possible connection with Tak I mentioned in that spoiler above. I didn't get the same feeling than him about the wagonics but I am gonna reread that now to see if I can get the grasp of it.

----

Aimee is so fluffy that she could get away as a wolf with this being her first game. I will keep on watching her.

Empoof meh.

Winston is a must watch. I am really liking his posts so far but he has so much potential for power wolfing that I can't be relaxed with him. Kinda feeling the same about Snerk/Visor.

LA is getting worse as time goes.

The rest of the roster I am OK with for now (Synsensa is getting more active, but I find him constructive as Monty said).

 

[Winston Hughes]

Have you been tracking the votes as others said you might, RRRas?

Or am I going to have to type up my handwritten list?

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

vote: Arakhor

@Winston: I will post a spreadsheet of D1 votes a bit later.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

lol what a cross post, you are in mind Winston

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

I will request you do D2 though

 

[Sommerswerd]

I didn't post in this thread yesterday because yesterday was too stressful with it seeming like everyone was after me. When I glanced at the thread after it reopened it seemed like things were even worse than yesterday and even more people had made up their minds to kill me so I thought "Well I'm dead, that's that" I figured at that point that literally anything I said would be interpreted as grounds to kill me as folks had already made up their minds, so I wasn't really up for posting in the thread.

Anyway, I've read the whole thread at this point and I will say that it seems dumb to lynch anyone who voted for Csargo because Csargo is a confirmed Klingon. The only person who voted for Csargo who should not be off the hook... for at least a couple days... is me, because I only voted for Csargo to self-pres, obviously. Csargo's vote to lynch me doesn't exonerate me for the same reason, he was clearly self pres'ing. But clearly anyone besides me who was voting for Csargo is in the clear, because if they were mafia they would have switched to me to save their comrade, right?

Also, it seems dumb to lynch, any of the three people Csargo said we should lynch, (Tak, Montmercy and Synsensa) because Csargo is a confirmed wolf. I mean, its possible that he named one wolf in his "I would lynch" post just to throw folks off, but all three? No way, right? So those three people have got to be given a pass, again, at least for a couple days until more suspicious targets are explored.

So the people who seem like they should be assumed town and lynch-exempt at this point are Synsensa, Visor, Empoof, Takhisis, Manasi and Monty, because those are the people, who are still alive, excluding myself, who either voted for Csargo or were named by Csargo for a lynch (Tak and Sysensa were both). My final thought is that anyone who has been hard pushing anyone on that list (people who voted for Csargo or were targeted by Csargo) for a lynch has to be a prime suspect.

Also... what are "bus / bussing" and "PR"?

 

[Winston Hughes]

Thanks Ras.

Can't promise to do d2, tho.

I'm back to work on Tuesday, plus I'm busy all Monday evening, so if I'm still around d3 then I'll need to move to a much more time-efficient approach.

And I am sloooooowww as hell when it comes to collecting and presenting stuff like vote data.

 

[Sommerswerd]

OK bye leika. vote: Csargo

I missed this in my analysis... RRRask cast the deciding vote to space Csargo because there was a tie between me and Csargo. So RRRask should definitely be treated as town as well.

 

[Winston Hughes]

Also... what are "bus / bussing" and "PR"?

bussing is scum voting (or at least pushing with some vigor) on their own teammates

pr usually means power roles - characters who have some significant ability to affect the game through night actions or such

 

[Sommerswerd]

thanks

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Anyway, I've read the whole thread at this point and I will say that it seems dumb to lynch anyone who voted for Csargo because Csargo is a confirmed Klingon. The only person who voted for Csargo who should not be off the hook... for at least a couple days... is me, because I only voted for Csargo to self-pres, obviously. Csargo's vote to lynch me doesn't exonerate me for the same reason, he was clearly self pres'ing. But clearly anyone besides me who was voting for Csargo is in the clear, because if they were mafia they would have switched to me to save their comrade, right?

Also, it seems dumb to lynch, any of the three people Csargo said we should lynch, (Tak, Montmercy and Synsensa) because Csargo is a confirmed wolf. I mean, its possible that he named one wolf in his "I would lynch" post just to throw folks off, but all three? No way, right? So those three people have got to be given a pass, again, at least for a couple days until more suspicious targets are explored.

So the people who seem like they should be assumed town and lynch-exempt at this point are Synsensa, Visor, Empoof, Takhisis, Manasi and Monty, because those are the people, who are still alive, excluding myself, who either voted for Csargo or were named by Csargo for a lynch (Tak and Sysensa were both). My final thought is that anyone who has been hard pushing anyone on that list (people who voted for Csargo or were targeted by Csargo) for a lynch has to be a prime suspect.

Let's play WIFOM! (Wine in front of me, search wiki.mafiascum.net if you forgot what it is )

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

^^ Not saying you are wrong, but that I am not sold on D1 wagonics. I will rather be following my reads for now.

 

[Winston Hughes]

Anyway, I've read the whole thread at this point and I will say that it seems dumb to lynch anyone who voted for Csargo because Csargo is a confirmed Klingon. The only person who voted for Csargo who should not be off the hook... for at least a couple days... is me, because I only voted for Csargo to self-pres, obviously. Csargo's vote to lynch me doesn't exonerate me for the same reason, he was clearly self pres'ing. But clearly anyone besides me who was voting for Csargo is in the clear, because if they were mafia they would have switched to me to save their comrade, right?

The problem with the 'everyone who voted Csargo can be town' line is that Csargo was the default lynch yesterday. By the time the votes started to pile up, it was obvious Zack was de facto town leader (if even I'm not seriously doubting him, Zack is pretty much lock clear), and was not going to back off his Csargo push. At this point, Csargo's chances of surviving more than another day or two approached zero, making him a liability for the scum team and a very viable candidate for bussing, especially if there was another scum player in the running to be lynched (as well as you, both Tak and Empoof could fit here).

 

[Sommerswerd]

if you forgot what it is )

How dare you! Me forget what that is?!? That's INCONCEIVABLE!!!

 

[Sommerswerd]

The problem with the 'everyone who voted Csargo can be town' line is that Csargo was the default lynch yesterday. By the time the votes started to pile up, it was obvious Zack was de facto town leader (if even I'm not seriously doubting him, Zack is pretty much lock clear), and was not going to back off his Csargo push. At this point, Csargo's chances of surviving more than another day or two approached zero, making him a liability for the scum team and a very viable candidate for bussing, especially if there was another scum player in the running to be lynched (as well as you, both Tak and Empoof could fit here).

As the person who tied with Csargo in the lynch voting and all the stress of that I will say I take issue with your casual characterization of Csargo as the "default". I was leading the vote for half the day so it didn't feel very "default" from my perspective. The only thing that saved me was literally a last minute vote by RRRas (thanks RRRas you wonderful, wonderful person ). "Default" my ass

I will also note that since you aren't on my list of folks who should get a pass, again at least for a couple days... your skepticism of the list is at least partially self-serving.

 

[pzelda]

Anyway, I've read the whole thread at this point and I will say that it seems dumb to lynch anyone who voted for Csargo because Csargo is a confirmed Klingon. The only person who voted for Csargo who should not be off the hook... for at least a couple days... is me, because I only voted for Csargo to self-pres, obviously. Csargo's vote to lynch me doesn't exonerate me for the same reason, he was clearly self pres'ing. But clearly anyone besides me who was voting for Csargo is in the clear, because if they were mafia they would have switched to me to save their comrade, right?

Also, it seems dumb to lynch, any of the three people Csargo said we should lynch, (Tak, Montmercy and Synsensa) because Csargo is a confirmed wolf. I mean, its possible that he named one wolf in his "I would lynch" post just to throw folks off, but all three? No way, right? So those three people have got to be given a pass, again, at least for a couple days until more suspicious targets are explored.

All of these assumptions only work if you're town. And some could corner themselves in voting their comrade or not being around to switch their votes. Tak for example made a really bad Csargo read, which was his first interaction with the hanged man. More so, Csargo lacked any presence in the thread at that point.
But, thanks for reminding me of that.

Unvote
Vote: Takhisis

 

[Winston Hughes]

As the person who tied with Csargo in the lynch voting and all the stress of that I will say I take issue with your casual characterization of Csargo as the "default". I was leading the vote for half the day so it didn't feel very "default" from my perspective. The only thing that saved me was literally a last minute vote by RRRas (thanks RRRas you wonderful, wonderful person ). "Default" my ass

From your perspective, sure. But all wagons are not alike, and from my perspective yours was very much a counter-wagon to Csargo. There was a distinct shift in the game around the time Csargo picked up his first votes from me and Zack, and it was from here that you started becoming a serious candidate (prompted at least in part, I think, by Zack first disagreeing and then agreeing with me that you looked scummy). Why exactly that happened is key to understanding why yesterday played out as it did.

Simply giving a pass to everyone who voted Csargo is choosing not to even engage with what actually happened, in favour of just staring at the final vote count.

 

[pzelda]

The problem with the 'everyone who voted Csargo can be town' line is that Csargo was the default lynch yesterday. By the time the votes started to pile up, it was obvious Zack was de facto town leader (if even I'm not seriously doubting him, Zack is pretty much lock clear), and was not going to back off his Csargo push. At this point, Csargo's chances of surviving more than another day or two approached zero, making him a liability for the scum team and a very viable candidate for bussing, especially if there was another scum player in the running to be lynched (as well as you, both Tak and Empoof could fit here).

I think that wolves would prefer to avoid losing one of theirs d1 if possible. Even with Csargo outed, they could use him to kill the thread. Bussing d1 is unwise, because it's the easiest day to ignore town leaders and avoid pressure from making bad moves.

Btw, I quite like Rask rn. I think he's town, mostly for going in another direction and talking about Argon more. I don't think his Arakhor case is great, it actually shows that Arakhor's posting is closer to Franklin than I've noticed. His Yako retrospective is impressive. That guy looks bad, especially if Sommer's town. I know there were some well regarded posts from Yako and I like them too, so It's yet another player to see more from before deciding.
Jeebuses to Rask.

Current wagons:
Tak wagon I find interesting. There's Arakhor, who is closer to my scumreads than to my town. Empoof, who is really difficult to get grasp of this game. He feels soft and comforting and this stresses me out. His moves are all good and pro town, tho. Synsea should be town based on Csargo's list.
Empoof has my top two towns and Monty, who I recently found towny enough, on his tail. These are some decent voters to sheep.
Sommer's wagon with Argon and Tak on it is an underdog.
Dolby and Jo on Arakhor feels pure, they both have good reasons for voting the guy. Rask adding the third vote is ok.

Ok, my two main theories would be:
1. An easy game. Wolves are mostly among low impact players and lurkers. None of them is really solving and they're all trying to stay under radar. This would mean some combination of Tak/Sommer/Yako/Manasi/Snerk/Arakhor/Aimee/Argon
2. Dobster and/or Empoof wolves and I find this to be more likely, actually. Basically one or of the two and a reduced poe from 1. For example Dolbster could only be with Tak/Yako/Snerk/Aimee/Argon. Empoof I have no idea atm. I don't think he made any independent pushes.

Things I don't want to think about:
3. Visor is wolf
4. Rask is wolf
5. Hughes is wolf

Syn, Monty, Johanna, Visor, Rask, Hughes and Dolbster are in my town.
Poof, Aimee, Arakhor, Argon, Snerk, Manasi, Yako have things going for and against them.
Takh, Sommer don't have much going for them. I think Sommer's looking better than Tak today.