[BTS] Stumbling back at Deity

[BornInCantaloup]

Yeah, well, I got what I deserved
I blame that last Hatshepsut game and Pericles for warping my mind into thinking that I can play like I lead a Creative leader

 

[Pangaea]

GAH!!! I play one turn, and...

Spoiler :

This game just doesn't want to play nice, does it? I mean, I was only 12 turns late or so... :|


Ooof. One more turn.

Spoiler :

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Ah, yeah, that's the one spot I lost, too
Talk about a trainwreck...

 

[Pangaea]

Indeed. Edited in what happened next turn. One more settler party. This is feeling more and more hopeless. Goddamnit!

 

[BornInCantaloup]

I'm ready for the next map, Pangaea

 

[Pangaea]

Didn't see that post, but I kept playing. T108 now, so close to 1AD. I'm not dead at least

Spoiler :

First thing that happened after firing up the save again, was the great dash for the jungle. Many settler parties from both Pacal and especially Bismarck. The pesky German stole the spot just north of my capital, and before you blink, another party is going for our pigs. Or maybe not. I managed to get over there and thought I beat him by one turn. But his settler party kept going diagonally across the land, so I suspect he was going for the NW tip all along.

Spoiler :

Turn 96, and we get Alpha with Mansa for Aesthetics. Had to put 120-ish beakers into it. Also got Math from Monty the same turn, as he was the only one willing to trade it, and I didn't want to risk it with him too.

Really tried to play careful here, and actually thought I could beat his settler to the spice area by one turn. I used workers to speed my settler along, but it didn't work as intended. Kept having one worker too little on the 'right' tile, and it dawned on me that Bismarck would beat me by one turn, and there was nothing I could do. We'd be on the tile simultaneously and he would settle in the interturn. I could have settled on the spice itself, but that would ruin the dye city further south, which didn't seem preferential either, as a city further east wouldn't be able to borrow the rice. Therefore I decided to send the settler further north, hoping to grab that spot before another German or Mayan group could get there. I kept seeing 2-4 settling parties on-screen at this point. Nuts.

Spoiler :

We don't have mixed culture in a single tile, but quite a few are touching, which has caused a stir with our dear friend Bismarck

Spoiler :

-1 I had expected, but not -2

Elsewhere I've been able to check out the island to our south-west. Why the hell bugger up the sheep like that? It's downright... barbaric!

Spoiler :

Expected there to be seafood when I saw how they had settled, but nope -- nothing. My workboat is also chased by two barb galleys from the east here. When I met another one from the west, I simply deleted the workboat. Hectic area.

Had kept postponing changing to Hinduism, because there was such a rush trying to get out settlers to beat the AIs. It went so-so, but I'm glad we got the location north of the barb city at least. It's a good one, albeit far away. I've ignored the corn-crabs, and for some reason so has Bismarck thus far. Maybe too little free tiles down there, despite double food. The AI can be stupid like that.

I had one more settler in production, though, and not a good place to send him. There was the hill east of Corinth, which could then have grabbed banana. But the lake would most likely stay German, and it would just add extra border pressure for not much gain. Up north was nowhere to go either. The barb city did look ready to fall pretty instantly, so I assumed I'd be too late to resettle (it kept at size 1, so would be auto-razed). Had I known it would still take some time for it to fall, I may have sent that extra settler up north in preparation, but instead I whipped out a galley and tried to get him to the island. That soon turned out rather dangerous, because one of those galleys hadn't stayed on the south side of the island like I hoped, but ventured north. It slammed right into my galley with an archer and settler on board! Thankfully the RNG was on our side this day, and we won the fight and was able to land the settler party. Phew! I couldn't know what was on the west side, but I settled it where I had dotmapped before. Happy to see another fish popped up. But until those barb galleys are dealt with, no fish can be caught

I'm not in turn 108, with 8 cities. There is unfortunately heavy border pressure with Bismarck, so if he starts plotting, that's probably it. He has swords galore, and I only some warriors plus archers. however, the good news is that iron popped up close to the pigs city east of the capital, which amazingly enough is the only iron anywhere near our starting location. Well, except on that island If he attacks, it will most likely be against that hill city, which brings me a little comfort, but ofc it will be extremely hard to hold him back if he DOWs. For now he isn't plotting, but despite the same religion he is only cautious. Pacal started plotting a while back, but I don't know who that might be on. He despises Mansa, but Mansa must be far away, so it's certainly possible it's on me. He was pleased at the time, but that's no guarantee with nutters like that. Monty and Mansa are still at war, and two GGs have been born. No cities lost yet, but I think Mansa is in trouble. He has been working on Feudalism, though, so maybe that will save him.

An overview of the empire so far. I'm pleased with the landgrab, but I need more workers to sort out that ugly jungle.

Spoiler :

This turn I also managed to land Monotheism from Monty. It was a bit risky and maybe I shouldn't have, but I saw no other way to get it. He was annoyed with me so wouldn't trade, so I gifted him Alpha. That made him cautious, and I gave him Monarchy for Mono. Bismarck and Mansa hates him, though, so that was the risky part. Got a slight hit with Mansa, but thankfully nothing with Bismarck. But that enabled the double switch to HR+OR that I was after. Some hammers have been saved behind Research building in wait for OR.

Unfortunately that last trade made Pacal get the preposterous idea that we are too advanced. But this time I really haven't traded too crazily. Self-teched all those small techs except Mono itself. But have traded for: Alpha, Math, IW, Sailing, Calendar, Monarchy -- and Monotheism. That is all.

Spoiler :

I've selected MC next for now, thinking I need triremes to deal with those barb galleys, but I'm not sure if that is the right call. Pacal already has it, and it's something the AIs usually like to go for. What do you think I should try to get next?

Is there any hope?

 

[Pangaea]

Have continued this save, hoping to not abysmally fail at this one too, like in NC 291. 100AD currently. Only 11 more turns, but it's a decision point.

Spoiler :

Took a peek with the archer after the barb city was razed. Sure enough, a settler party is on the way instantly

Spoiler :

I'm glad they decided to settle east of the ruins though, because that means there isn't direct contest for the pig.

I've kept tabs on the power graph since I've got view on Mansa, and he has seemed to be doing okay, despite rising war weariness. However, he has now lost a city, and appears to be in great difficulty. If Monty gets Feud, Mansa will cap I'm sure.

Spoiler :

Up until now, I had no idea where Saladin was, and suspected he may be on the same landmass with Monty and Mansa, but hadn't been able to get a workboat over due to locked borders or barb galleys. In turn 118 our exploreboat finally spot some unfamiliar borders, and up comes Saladin! So he was way up north-east all along. (I saw his name in a screenshot from BiC's shadow, so knew he was present)

Spoiler :

Turns out Pacal wasn't plotting, but in a war against Saladin. Doesn't look like he's doing very well either. Really not good if yet another giant AI crushes another, and possibly gets a vassal.

Wasn't sure about opening borders with Saladin, as Pacal may well bombard me with demands, but did after all. Nice to explore his land, and maybe get good trade routes. Instead, Mansa asked me to join the war on Monty. I said no. You're getting crushes anyway, and I don't want Monty to target me next. He can reach us after all, albeit only with galleys. And I spotted a seemingly random Aztec catapult on the island next to ours. Perhaps it somehow to teleported there or something, because the island looks small. Odd.

Spoiler :

The economy has been bad for a long time, 8 cities is a lot on Deity. It has improved and we're breaking even at almost 40% instead of 20%. Calendar helped, due to some nice commerce resources. Shame we lost the spices-rice to Bismarck. A tangent, but it's crazy how quickly Deity AIs get those jungle-infested cities up to speed.

Barb galleys are causing many issues, and ruined the clam in Corinth. After waiting a few turns, hoping the barb galley outside Thebes would travel north, I took the chance to move ours out of the city. Was happy to see we won the ensuing fight, because then it was possible to ferry a worker over to the island, and that place really needed it. Still can't improve the fish there, as there are at least two more barb galleys nearby, but can chop and improve tiles, including iron.

At 100AD, we have finally saved up enough to be able to research something. I've slow-teched MC so far, but that looks like a poor choice to fully tech. Most AIs have Feudalism now, but only two have CoL and only two have Currency. More sober tech pace here, thankfully, but it tends to take off after 1AD. I think part of what is happening is that they run out of buildings to build, so build research or wealth instead, which really speed them up due to large cities and low maintenance.

Anyway, I'm thinking about picking Compass. Hopefully we have enough into MC already to be able to get MC for Compass with somebody, or alternatively without adding a lot of gold on top. Should be able to get CoL too, at least once Pacal goes Friendly (currently +9). Construction may be possible to get from Mansa. Does this sound like a good idea, or should I try something else?

Below is the map and tech overviews, and I've added the save as well. Please try to help me out so I don't lose this one as well

Spoiler :

 

[civac]

Bismarck would tilt me to the point that I'd go try to kill him, fail and start a new game.

 

[Fippy]

Would lean towards currency (speed up to 3t).
Only 2 AIs have it, should still give some trade value and ofc gold.

Biz has 8gpt if you sell him dye.
Philo bulb looks good in 10t (usually does)

 

[Pangaea]

Okay, then I can try that instead. See how it goes. Thanks.

 

[Fippy]

Was thinking like that: Compass has great trade value, but nothing else for now.
Currency can make you gold just by selling techs (and resources eventually).
Sometimes AIs delay it while at war, ofc if everybody suddenly gets currency the whole idea looks bad.
But imo it's worth trying in this case.

 

[Pangaea]

Thanks for the tip. The Currency gambit thankfully worked out here. Nobody else got it in the meantime

Spoiler :

Was able to get Construction from Saladin by paying 20g on top. Could get it in an even trade with Mansa, but then the possible MC trade was out, so I did it with Saladin. Put some more research into MC that turn, and thankfully it was enough to get it from Mansa, and he didn't get Currency between turns either. Suppose he's a bit more isolated here than he usually is, and still in a bad war with 10-city Montezuma in Police State. Cannot be a nice experience! Was also able to get CoL, think that was with Pacal. Although the Pacal-Saladin war ended, that trade made Saladin hate me, since they were still worst enemies, and I only met Saladin very recently.

Then Bismarck asked me to cancel relations with Montezuma.

Spoiler :

I really dislike demands like that, because it's a 100% negative event. We don't even get any positive diplo with Bismarck by agreeing, but merely don't get negative with him (for rejecting it). Okay, there is the slight penalty between Montezuma and Bismarck if we agree, because of a trade embargo, but that's it. Anywho, I don't want to anger ze Jerman, so I agree

In 300AD something happened which I hoped wouldn't. Somebody gets a GS. I'm only two turns short myself, but it's too late and nothing I can do. CoL has gone around, and Philo will get bulbed by Bismarck. Darnit.

Those two turns have now passed, and our own GS has been born. I'm thinking I should still bulb Philo, as it's pretty useful, and hopefully nobody else will get it for a while. Kinda means I can't use it for trades. What's the advice here? Do I bulb it, and do I keep it away from the trading table? I'm three turns away from CS, which doesn't look to be available otherwise, although Mao and Monty have it.

Tech overview. Pacal got a pile of gold from Saladin building Colossus, but no way to get it.

Spoiler :

Overview of the core of the empire. Capital has been getting along okay, but was recently two-popped for an Odeon. It had gotten unhappy. Unfortunately the spice cover it up, but the city is size 10 or 11.

Spoiler :

What's the play going forward here? Many AIs are pretty big, and the tech screen looks less favourable now than it did a little while ago. Music hasn't gone yet, but I'm sure it will happen soon with so many able to tech it. It's been available for Mao for a long time.

When do barbs typically get upgraded to longbows? I'd like to get the barb city on the island, but sadly need to raze it since it has no other food than the sheep they settled on top of.

 

[Fippy]

Golden Age in 3t i think.
Means no Paci for 5t after switching into Bur and Caste, but still pretty good with 200% from PHI and GA.

Argos should be able to get another Philo GS within 5t of golden age, 6 specialists each worth 9gpp hmm so 54 per turn..bit closer than i thought but should be okay.
Leaves 3t of golden age for other cities with all bonuses including Paci.
Staying in Caste is fine, can be fixed later with Theo + Slavery when war preparations start.

Could tech Compass + almost Paper while waiting for the new GS. Almost so Edu doesn't steal the bulb

No idea on barb city longbows, but should be anytime now with Feuda spread.
But i wouldn't really be tempted by settling that city, a lonely sheep seems of too low quality for past AD.

 

[Pangaea]

Went back to this Alex game and took you up on the advice of launching a golden age in three turns, when CS was done. But instead of then bulbing Philo, I decided to self-tech it (a few had it, but not available), and instead use the GS I had plus another one on Edu + Lib. Felt this part went relatively well. Was able to win Lib and pick Military Tradition, and then self-tech Gunpowder in three turns afterwards. However, it was hard to know what was happening in the Mansa-Monty war. Kinda looked like Mansa had gone on the offense based on tiles missing (being pillaged). But then suddenly he lost Djenne too, and capped to Monty between turns. Not great...

It's now 900AD and it's possible to produce Cuirs. I need to change civics first, so need a turn of anarchy to go into Slavery+Theocracy. Then it's all about whipping things into the ground and hope it's possible to beat somebody down. However, it's also quite possible that Saladin is plotting on me, and also Monty. The crazy bugger started plotting this very turn, after capping Mansa only a few turns ago. Total nutter. I turned down some demands and suchlike from them, so that may be why, but there is only so far I can bend over. On that note, I tried to raze the barb city with swords, but the RNG kept screwing me over, so it didn't happen. Still archers there, but one of them is now CG2 from winning at stupid odds and now I can hardly prioritise that capture gold and possible re-settlement.

The AIs look pretty rough to deal with, but hopefully this is still possible. A 1000AD attack is going to be too early, I have no army currently, but hard whipping for 8-10 turns may be enough? A few cities need other infra too.

Took some screenshots as usual:

Spoiler :

Mansa really did get screwed for land here. Should have done much better with placement of cities, but tough to be locked in a corner surrounded by jungle... Not sure how he held out for that long with no strategic resources. He must have built a thousand longbows.

Hated to see this guy! Meant I lost a bunch of tiles in two cities, and losing that mine also meant that very food-rich city had 0 hammers. It's why I had to get up some lousy workshops. At least Caste made them 1 2

Diplo with Shaka doesn't look great.

Against the barb city, stuff like this kept happening. When you need to slow produce one and one guy...

Looks much like before, but this is our core. The continent with Mansa and Monty happened to be connected via the island we settled. So he can technically reach us despite lacking Astro. Gulp.

Tech situation

Crossing my fingers something bad doesn't happen before I'm ready, like Monty suddenly landing from 20 galleys. Saladin thankfully can't reach us via land due to closed borders with Pacal (they fought a war). Possible he plots on him again ofc, but I'm not sure.

Our natural target is Bismarck really, but he's definitely not an easy target.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Short version : I'd keep the possibility open to DoW Pacal instead of Bismark. Maybe look for a war of opportunity.


This looks way better than your 600 BC or even early AD situation.
I guess this is the power of PHI. That Golden Age really served you well. It also helps that the AIs seem to have had limited trading.
Well played

The Apostolic Palace is Hindu (Mutal). Pacal is Friendly with Bismark and Mao.
Bismark has some nasty wonders parked in his backyard : Chichten Itza and the Statue of Zeus.
So, there still could be some danger/manoeuvering to do. Bribes, peace vassaling, AP resolutions could all turn ugly. You will still have time to consider all of that when you are closer to DoWing.

Maybe Saladdin will have declared on Pacal, by then. That would be good (if Pacal doesn't swoop).
So the diplo is tricky but you have quite an excellent invasion route against Pacal, from German territory : fork the 2 cities south of Mutal, converge against Mutal and, then, Lakamha.
The plus side of invading Bismark is that he won't bribe anybody.