Subdued Animals in C2C discussions

[AIAndy]

Hmm very weird. I had a similar thing happen when I put in the wrong tag for the spawn info. I put like

<Type>SPAWN_SHARK_WHALE</Type>

when it should have been

<Type>SPAWN_WHALE_NATIVE</Type>

And the game would do just that. Make sure your tags are all right. Or even try to add another animal that you now will work to see if you reached a limit.

The only important thing with the type tags is that they must be unique throughout all XML files.

 

[ori]

All these new animals are great - one note though: it would be nice of the animals that allow building of the master hunter were not a tiny minority

 

[Koshling]

All these new animals are great - one note though: it would be nice of the animals that allow building of the master hunter were not a tiny minority

They are meant to be the slightly tougher ones though

 

[ori]

well, the majority of animals that can build it are strength 2 and deer is 1 - strength 4 gorillas cannot for example...

 

[Koshling]

well, the majority of animals that can build it are strength 2 and deer is 1 - strength 4 gorillas cannot for example...

Yup, not arguing its perfect as it is, just saying it shouldn't be really puny animals is all if we fill out the ones that can

 

[ori]

I have no problem not allowing every animal to do so - but in the game I just started I have killed ~100 animals and subdued dozens but none can mostly because what I get around me are all birds and apes...

 

[strategyonly]

I have no problem not allowing every animal to do so - but in the game I just started I have killed ~100 animals and subdued dozens but none can mostly because what I get around me are all birds and apes...

Yeah the hawks/eagles are a BIT too many. Just glad DH made them with an attack of only 1

 

[EldrinFal]

Sorry you feel that way Quest. With animals I don't really think one should be able to control them enough to set up a safe area. Even today people are mauled by bears, chewed on by sharks, bitten by snakes, and in general having encounters with wildish animals inside cities even. Heck, rat populations are at an all time high in cities, no way we've been able to control that, and not for lack of trying for centuries.

What I'd like though is to have some animals more placid, some more skittish, and predators hungry for blood. This has already been brought up and discussed and I'm looking forward to running from bears and wolves, sneaking up to unsuspecting horse herds, and hunting down that elusive White Stag. Still no matter how many troops you have on a plot animals feeling safe enough miles away (next plot over) can still show themselves. My thoughts anyway.

Cheers

I agree. Maybe since you are referencing my own thoughts in another thread But I think what has to happen first is that "Prey AI" has to be developed where animals/units with it just run away from other units and never attack. Those can spawn in cultural borders, or even wander into them, but then run at first sign of aggro units. I don't think predators should spawn in cultural borders, but they should be able to wander into them-- but not attack cities.

It will be a different type of challenge to wrangle prey that continues to run, probably requiring two or more units to surround and corral the animal, including the use of smaller fast units like birds or dogs or something to sweep around and drive them towards combat/hunter units.

There is no way that if someone wants an area free of bears that they cannot accomplish that. Bears don't magically appear from nowhere. Rats and roaches are certainly uncontrollable, but any animal large enough to be portrayed with a unit can certainly be kept clear from any area that the military decides they want to be free of said animal......

They don't, but it's entirely possible that the bears are there, just have not been "spotted". Afterall, in reality, there are A LOT more animals in an area that what is represented in C2C. So I try to imagine they are hidden in the terrain and just don't become known of until spotted.

Besides, it isn't like there is an electric fence along the entire cultural borders, and every tile up until the border is erradicated of all animal life. Within the fat cross yeah, since that is where people live, but beyond that is just wildland even if it's within the borders of the nation.

Can you make a rotating cast function for the games animals? Meaning you get X number of animals spawning but at the start of the game only Y of each kind actually are involved in any particular game. Make either a few random 'casts' of which animals are prescripted lists of animals that will fill the roll on that map/contient. That or make it so their are a selection of 'job' slot for animals and it pick a predetermined number from each section of the list.

Just because an animal exists doesn't mean its needed every game. The randomized ecology will keep things intresting.

I think all the assets load upon startup of the mod, though I'm only guessing here. If not, yeah, an option would be to randomly load or unload some of those elements to save on resources.

 

[Questdog]

I am not against the animals as much as I am against the way they are utilized.

Having my armies fight snakes seems silly, but if the animal units were utilized more as mobile resources that could only be harvested by special hunter units, they would make more sense, at least to me.

Make the focus be more on catching these elusive buggers than fighting them and make them only catchable by hunter units would be my suggestion.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I am not against the animals as much as I am against the way they are utilized.

Having my armies fight snakes seems silly, but if the animal units were utilized more as mobile resources that could only be harvested by special hunter units, they would make more sense, at least to me.

Make the focus be more on catching these elusive buggers than fighting them and make them only catchable by hunter units would be my suggestion.

But you can't get a hunter until you have captured an animal and brought it back home. Also you forget that humans a just "mobile happy meals" for most of history and before.

 

[Questdog]

But you can't get a hunter until you have captured an animal and brought it back home. Also you forget that humans a just "mobile happy meals" for most of history and before.

You can certainly change the fact that a hunter needs a captured animal to be created.

And you are saying that you remember that humans were "mobile happy meals"? I dispute this assertion and make the claim that humans being eaten by animals has always been a fairly rare event. And in any case, when it happened, it was one man getting caught, not a whole division of infantry.

In my vision of this, the hunter units would be very weak militarily and really only useful for gathering animals.

 

[Hankc]

An idea: give some animals stealth.

I'm thinking snakes in particular. Easy to miss if you are travelling, but can give you a nasty surprise if it attacks. I would suggest keeping strength as it is, making them more a nuisance than a serious threat. If they could inflict a temporary promotion on those that they fight, similar to spiders etc. in FfH it would be even better.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Love that idea Hank!

Questdog: I do understand what you're saying and I think it amounts to the difference between an individual or small group and an ARMY. You're saying that a bear poses no threat to an army but sure does to an 'individual' or small group.

I've always thought we might be allowing the line between army and individual to be a little too blurred. Assassins would be individuals, Hunters would be individuals, Stone Axemen would be an army. And the difference between an Army and an Individual would be like night and day where power is concerned... aka, we could represent it fairly if we took all Army units and multiplied their current power levels by either 10, 100, or even 1000 depending on just how many individuals would make up an army unit.

That, sadly, would then steal from a lot of the game balance and unit functionalities in a checks and balances system we've evolved into. But it might be a good way to start with a massive reconsider of the mod down the road... and when I say down the road I mean DOWN the road... much like most of the ideas I float around here

 

[Questdog]

Love that idea Hank!

Questdog: I do understand what you're saying and I think it amounts to the difference between an individual or small group and an ARMY. You're saying that a bear poses no threat to an army but sure does to an 'individual' or small group.

I've always thought we might be allowing the line between army and individual to be a little too blurred. Assassins would be individuals, Hunters would be individuals, Stone Axemen would be an army. And the difference between an Army and an Individual would be like night and day where power is concerned... aka, we could represent it fairly if we took all Army units and multiplied their current power levels by either 10, 100, or even 1000 depending on just how many individuals would make up an army unit.

That, sadly, would then steal from a lot of the game balance and unit functionalities in a checks and balances system we've evolved into. But it might be a good way to start with a massive reconsider of the mod down the road... and when I say down the road I mean DOWN the road... much like most of the ideas I float around here

I'm just saying make the animals harmless and let's hunt them with hunter units (the only units that could hurt them).

It would be more of a challenge. Currently the big strategy the animals offer is to set a Clubman on a forested hill and let him gather all the animals that come running (and they SURE do come running). It takes no effort whatsoever to collect your menagerie of Myths and Herds. If the animals were skittish and were more inclined to have survival instincts and could only be hunted by a small group of units (who were slower than their prey), it would be more fun (at least I think).

Edit: It should be dern near impossible for two hunter units to capture a Giraffe, but should also be fun trying....

 

[climat]

Bear, Big Cat, Wolf enclosures give +1 Experience to Recon units, and others don't.
Should enclosures give Experiences anyway?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Bear, Big Cat, Wolf enclosures give +1 Experience to Recon units, and others don't.
Should enclosures give Experiences anyway?

This is the way it has always been. I fact it is that way in the mod they were recycled from. I will review.

 

[robomani]

If they continue to give xp it should at least include hunter units, I almost always build recon units an upgrade them to hunter because with cages they start with more xp and I almost always have the event that give free combat 1 promo to all scouts.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Dancing Hoskuld

Here are some animal cage icon/buttons for you, so each can have their own unique icon/button.

- Bear
- Bird
- Primate
- Reptile
- Rodent

EDIT: Also I gave you a Dolphin Myth icon/button. You should use that instead of the whale one.

 

[strategyonly]

Are ALL the new animals "food" resources or some of them just hide or just kill? ie Iguana.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Dancing Hoskuld

Here are some more Myth icon/buttons for you.

- Beluga
- Dragon
- Fish
- Kangaroo (A better one for you)
- Koala
- Leopard Shark
- Monkey
- Unicorn

Enjoy!