Sullla's (*Spolier*) GOTM10: Lowest Scoring Challenge

[Sullla]

I have completed my "entry" into GOTM10, a One City Challenge game that I hope will be the lowest scoring victory in this month's competition. The report is hosted at my Civ3 website; a link to it is available here. While you're there, you might be interested to look around the site I've been building recently, since there's a lot there. I won't say exactly what happened in the game, but will instead let this picture speak for itself.

 

[col]

Love reading these accounts

Ive been particularly looking forward to reading this one. I've tried a OCC on this map several times. I have no difficulty in getting under your score. My 'little' problem that I havent quite cracked yet is in getting to 20k before someone else wins!

 

[col]

Wow - that was some science city.
Just goes to show that good Civ players can do well in ANY kind of challenge.
Phil and I will have to have a rethink. There MUST be something we do well at......

Time to write a OCC guide ?

 

[Zachriel]

Great play and great read. I had considered the One City Challenge, as it was an excellent position for such a strategy.

Your first move was the crucial one.

 

[col]

Well I had one more OCC go and followed your opening research / build strategy - although placed Paris one square away from you - on coast and on river of course.

Won with 20k culture in 2014! Score 274. Just shows how low you can go!

The fact that I took longer was more a reflection of the fact that I'm not as good as you are - especially at trading which is what I spent most of the game doing!

City was on 60 culture per turn for ages, then 67 near end (not sure why it increased. )

When Apollo predicted 2015 finish at about 1800 I thought I had no chance but raging world wars slowed everyone down. UN was built 3 turns before finish but no votes ever held. Maybe I could have held off but was so relieved to win that I didnt think to try to extend. I thought someone was bound to launch at any time.

Thanks for the tips.Sulla.
If we ever get this one in the tournament, I'll know how to tackle it. It IS nail-biting though.

 

[Chieftess]

Now I *really* want to try a OCC! But, how'd you survive with just one spearman defending the city? No one even declared war on you?

 

[col]

Nope - the fact that youre trading constantly just to get enough luxuries to stay out of trouble keeps everybody civil I think.

Sulla was much better than I and managed to get more wonders so had more culture per turn.

Obviously he overcooked it - I missed a few he got but finished before 2050. I doubt if anyone else could hit that slot between 2020 and 2050 with any precision.

It DOEs make for an amazingly one the edge nail biting game. The first time I played, I just swept the board until sure of winning then cut back - score way too high.

After seeing what Sulla managed I cut my winning score to 274. Obviously I cant submit to GOTM but I'll bet no-one gets under that with a winning game (2014 save avilable if you're interested!)

 

[col]

The real problem was fightng off the barbarians!

 

[Sullla]

Originally posted by col
Won with 20k culture in 2014! Score 274. Just shows how low you can go!

Hey, nicely done! I knew it would be possible to win at a later date and thus achieve a lower score (444 of my 581 points were from end-of-game bonus), but it's really hard to deliberately put fewer culture in a city than you can. I could have been close to 100 culture/turn at the end if I had built a research lab and not sold off my library and university. And the AI was actually running UN votes and approaching a domination victory in my game (Russia), so it was about time to end the game anyway. And, like you said, getting an earlier finish date means that I did a "better" game, although that's not the case when trying to reduce score!

You can't submit the game of course, seeing as how you had already played the map (and followed my build strategy). I considered the tile one space further up the river and I liked it better, but oftentimes those space seem to be on the coast and actually are not. Rather than gamble with this one, I just went for the sure thing. Hope you had fun, and realize that OCC games are really not that scary at all!

Originally posted by Chieftess
Now I *really* want to try a OCC! But, how'd you survive with just one spearman defending the city? No one even declared war on you?

One thing that most players don't realize is that if you are much weaker than the other civs, the AI will largely leave you alone. Unlike a human, who would instantly kill the civ to claim all those wonders in a city, the AI will instead leave the player alone as long as he or she does not do something stupid - like refusing a demand for tribute (always pay). As long as you trade with everyone frequently and never break any deals, it is extremely unlikely that anyone will attack you. No one ever came close to attacking me in the game mentioned; what value would they get from killing such a city when I was such a valuable trading partner? If you are tiny and pose no threat, you will be left alone unless you do something to attract attention to yourself (the same holds true on Deity, by the way). In 3 Deity games and 3 OCC games, I have never been sneak attacked by the computer, even when incredibly outclassed in power. Treat them fairly, and you will be ignored. I can practically guarantee it. Trust me: OCC games only LOOK hard. On Regent and below they are very easy to win.

 

[col]

yup - no-one came near attacking me. Obviously you need to make sure you NEVER sign an MPP. I missed a couple of your wonders which is why I took longer. I learned a lot about trading too - and learned to check and trade luxuries every turn to see if I had problems there!

My furs regularly bought me 2 luxuries + cash!

Good learning game.

I was lucky that the other civs stayed fairly balanced and cut each other regularly so no-one was ever near dominating.

 

[Barker]

I am also going to try to play this game as well.

I noticed that if you had built your city 1 tile NW of your starting location, you would have had a much easier time winning the game. There are many more shields available, and you still would have had a coastal start for your wonders.

 

[Sullla]

Originally posted by Barker
I noticed that if you had built your city 1 tile NW of your starting location, you would have had a much easier time winning the game. There are many more shields available, and you still would have had a coastal start for your wonders.

Yep, I know what you're talking about. Trouble is, I've founded cities in those kind of locations many a time - only to discover that the city is not on the coast at all. I have yet to discover a reliable way to tell whether a city is on the coast or not, so I went the safe route and put it in the sure location. I probably could have secured an extra wonder in the better location, and certainly could have gotten the UN (I could only pull about 70 shields from the location I had my city in). But the game was easy enough anyway, so I'm not complaining - and I wouldn't have had such an insanely high science output without all those coastal tiles to provide commerce.

 

[Barker]

I always press down <Ctr> + G to make sure that my city tile will allow me access to water. The only thing I could not be certain about is whether the water is an inland lake, or ocean.

I am currently in 370 AD and have built Granary, Temple, Library, Cathedral, Colloseum, Colossus, The Great Library, Oracle, and Lighthouse. I would like to suild Sistine Chapel, but no-one has researched Theology yet.

36 culture/turn - 1688total

 

[col]

Remember if you finish too soon, your score will be too high!!

 

[Mathias]

Sulla, it is really quite simple. First of all, turn the grid on if it isn't already. I always have the grid on when building cities or improving terrain. If any of the 8 tiles adjacent to the one your settler is on is water (not freshwater - check terrain info to be sure it doesn't have any extra food) then the city will be on the coast. Note: Fish in freshwater produce 3 food under despotism.

I played this game yesterday for a cultural victory in 1918 AD with a final score of 571. Unfortunately, that was on a second attempt so I won't be submitting it. I missed the Great Library after completing the Oracle in my first try, and that pretty much kills any OCC.

Here are a few details from my game:

I first built a warrior and then a worker before building my temple. The two workers cleared the forests to speed production of the temple, then proceded to improve all of the terrain around Paris before joining the city as citizen's 7 and 8.

As I built the Great Library, I continued at near max science toward Monarchy. I prebuilt the Hanging Gardens with the Great Lighthouse, and entered a Golden Age with it. Keeping my science at 80%, I made a beeline for Chemistry while the other civs headed for Education. This gave me a two-tech lead when Education was discovered. I wouldn't use the Great Library any other way.

I kept up in science through most of the industrial age, and was the first civ to discover Combustion. I then sold university, library, cathedral and temple. I traded techs to move into the modern era, andset science to zero. I bought Fission for about 3800 gold (I had over 23000) as soon as it was available, and built the UN in only 12 turns.

After building the UN, something became rather obvious. If you want the lowest score, an OCC Diplomatic victory won't force you to win in the early 20th century. Today I will replay with this in mind. My goal is to get under 250 points. If I can make it last until 2050, it may even be less than 200... but that is seriously pushing it.

 

[col]

Glad you're enjoying it.

It started out of a bit of Anglo-Aussie rivalry between Phil Martin and I. But the more I thought about it, the more fun the idea was.

Sullla opened my eyes to the joys of OCC. I'd enjoyed OCC in Civ2 but couldnt see how to make it work in Civ3. Now that's a new string to my bow. Wish I'd known about it before vet 2-2!

Lowest score is much more nailbiting fun than milking a game for score that you KNOW you've won but still have many hours to go to completion.

 

[Mathias]

Wow, what a game!

I was literally up all night playing this one. Would you believe an OCC Space Race Victory? Well, it wasn't far off. I lost in 1965, with my spaceship due to launch in 1992, one turn before I would have won a cultural victory.

Here is a list of all of the wonders built in Paris:

The Great Library 925 BC
The Hanging Gardens 370 BC
Copernicus's Observatory 960 AD
Newton's University 1130 AD
Theory of Evolution 1510 AD
United Nations 1874 AD
SETI Program 1936 AD

Notice that I did not build Sistine Chapel, or any other middle age cultural wonder. This was deliberate, and late in the game, I even regretted building the Hanging Gardens. It alone produced over 2000 cp, and was the main reason a cultural victory would have been reached in the 1990s. Without it, at least 40 more turns could have been played, delaying the cultural victory until at least 2030 AD.

Note the last wonder I built and check out the screenshot. Copernicus's + Newton's + SETI all in the same city with a Research Lab, now that is a real Super Science City.

Also note that the Hoover Dam is not in the list. I was about to begin construction on it when I realized that a Hydro Plant was a lot cheaper and doesn't carry any culture points with it. For an OCC, Hoover Dam is about as useless as the Pyramids or Sun Tzu's.

Here is a list of SS components and when they were built, or would have been built:

Apollo Program 1952
SS Docking Bay 1954
SS Cockpit 1958
SS Thrusters 1962
SS Engine, 8 turns (1970)
SS Stasis Chamber, 4 turns (1974)
SS Storage/Supply, 2 turns(1976)
SS Fuel Cells, 2 turns (1978)
SS Life Support System, 4 turns (1982)
SS Planetary Party Lounge, 2 turns (1984)
SS Exterior Casing, 8 turns (1992)
Cultural Victory in 1993 to be preceded by Space Race victory

I just might give this one more go, as for most of the industrial age I was at 80% science, with 20% luxury to keep my peeps happy. I never bothered to trade for luxurys, after all, I was 1 tech ahead until Radio, and accumulated over 35,000 gold since the AI would much rather buy tech than research it for themselves. I challenge anyone to an OCC Space Race victory on this or any other map. Good luck, and have a safe flight to Alpha Centauri

Edit: The Colossus was built in or around 1625 BC.

 

[col]

Sounds like a great game.

Now isnt that better than the usual boring dom / spaceship??

 

[Sullla]

Originally posted by Mathias
Wow, what a game!

I was literally up all night playing this one. Would you believe an OCC Space Race Victory? Well, it wasn't far off. I lost in 1965, with my spaceship due to launch in 1992, one turn before I would have won a cultural victory.

Yep, the OCC games can be amazingly addictive. I always get the feeling, "Well I'll just play until this wonder completes... okay, well I'll stop after this one..." and so on.

Too bad that you lost the game; you could have held a UN vote and won that way when the other civs were getting close though. At least, that's what I would have done. It's entirely possible to win a spaceship victory in a OCC (it's been done before on Deity, albeit on earlier, easier versions of the game) but you cannot trade away the spaceship techs to the AI civs. That's the thing that prevented you from winning. If you had kept those techs jealously close and to yourself... you might have blasted off to the stars from your one city.

 

[cas]

Originally posted by col
Nope - the fact that youre trading constantly just to get enough luxuries to stay out of trouble keeps everybody civil I think.
...
Obviously he overcooked it - I missed a few he got but finished before 2050. I doubt if anyone else could hit that slot between 2020 and 2050 with any precision.
...
After seeing what Sulla managed I cut my winning score to 274. Obviously I cant submit to GOTM but I'll bet no-one gets under that with a winning game (2014 save avilable if you're interested!)

282 in 2047 on my first try with GOTM X. Also my first attempt at OCC (my variant with 2-4 other single pop cities for support & resources). For instance, I put a city down by the 3 incense to give me something to trade...then used incense and gpt to help keep up in techs and make the closest civs happy with me. Prebuilt most wonders with my main city and then finished them quicker than the AI once I traded for the appropriate tech. Only one I really missed that I wanted was Newtons Univ...and had a close call with ToE. Germany decided to go to war with me in 1914 but my size 1 rubber/uranium resource city survived 2 panzers and I turned EVERYONE against them for gpt or tech. That kept the entire world at war for the last 120 turns and kept the AI in communism/low tech research. In the end, it was only Russia, the Iroquois, and me. I will try to attach a picture if I can figure out how.

It seems most people not aware that you can 'milk' an OCC by going into mobilization (lowers culture produced to half I think) or anarchy (stops culture produced completely). I would have finished around 1950 without milking (and selling my temple/col/cathedral/library/univ even earlier). It is EASY to hit the 2040-2050 range as long as another civ isn't going to win during that time with dom or space victory...and I'm assuming you built the UN to stop the possibility of AI diplo victory. Techs after fission (for UN) are not necessary for a 20K culture win.

My goal was to get below 500, so I am happy with my game. But I could have been around 250 if I had micro-managed a bit better. If we get a Monarch GOTM soon, I might try a combination of conquest, colonies, and space victory. Emp I can barely beat and I stink at Diety (not counting cheesy diplo win).

Cheers. :jump:
cas