I'm not necessarily opposed to a shrine, I dislike way too early UBs, because they are a hell to balance however.
All three of them, to be honest.
Sumer - CBP Compatable Custom Civs
- Thread starter Sun Pope
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Sun Pope
Warlord
Hmm, maybe I'm missing where it could get complicated. Programming wise, it makes sense in my head on how I can do it. Basically just some code that prompts a selection screen (similar to the Pantheon one) and whatever benefit you pick gets added to the Ziggurat. The only thing that I really see that could be complicated is if we have to have a separate instance of eah Ziggurat with the each bonus, and when the un-buffed Ziggurat is built the code just takes away that one and replaces it with the customised one.
Balance wise, thats the real question IMO. We would have to come up with a bunch (10-20) of bonuses that are neither OP or useless. Then, there is the question of what happens when the user builds a Ziggurat after theyve already selected all of the options already.
Gameplay wise, its really not that complicated. When you build a Ziggurat, you esentially pick a bonus for that specific city. So the entire empire doesnt get the bonus, just the tiles being worked by that city. It's the same system the base game uses for localised yields, such as a pasture being worked by a city with a stable VS a pasture in a different city without the stable. Each Ziggurat is a special building
Balance wise, thats the real question IMO. We would have to come up with a bunch (10-20) of bonuses that are neither OP or useless. Then, there is the question of what happens when the user builds a Ziggurat after theyve already selected all of the options already.
Gameplay wise, its really not that complicated. When you build a Ziggurat, you esentially pick a bonus for that specific city. So the entire empire doesnt get the bonus, just the tiles being worked by that city. It's the same system the base game uses for localised yields, such as a pasture being worked by a city with a stable VS a pasture in a different city without the stable. Each Ziggurat is a special building
Easy fix would be to have a generic ziggurat that you can build, and then your x other bonus ziggurats with a cost of -1 (and set not to show in pedia). The popup would simply replace the generic ziggurat with one of these custom ones. Minimal extra code, and it's all sitting in the buildings XML.
G
Sun Pope
Warlord
Yep, that's the basic idea! Thanks for the tip on the -1 production cost, I didn't know for sure if that would work in xml
Funnily enough, I was just talking with Tomatekh about adapting a few of his civs for CBP. He's totally down for it, although his schedule is iffy these days. As you probably know, Tomatekh has had the best Sumer for years now. In this particular case, you might have an easier time helping Tomatekh adapt his Sumer than coming up with your own. After all, he's got the leaderscreen, unit graphics and everything, he'll just need help balancing everything for CBP.
Should I ask him to come over here, if possible?
Should I ask him to come over here, if possible?
Sun Pope
Warlord
Sure! That would be awesome! You'll find that cooperation is one of my stronger suits, heheh
I kinda dislike his Sumeria, mostly because of the lack of Gilgamesh in it.
Really? The way his Sumer is focused on a faith-based science victory makes me think of the anime "Gilgamesh"...I imagine I have my own little mad scientist specialists pushing the bounds of human evolution in pursuit of godhood. It gives me an evil grin of the sort I only get when watching tons of embarked berserkers bearing down for a coastal invasion.
IIRC the E&D Decisions are also faithy-science flavored, so that helps.
My personal Gilgamesh is the guy in golden armor from Fate/Stay night and Fate/Zero, everything about him is just so damn awesome.
Sun Pope
Warlord
A little off topic, but I always deafult to Final Fantasy's Gilgamesh. The loveable buffoon. Then I remember having to read the epic of Gilgamesh in high school, and how he basically was just some guy who ran around with a sword and had a lot of sex
#ancienthistory
Sun Pope
Warlord
Alright, so we've gotten a lot of options for the Ziggurat down. We can keep talking about that, but I'd also like to focus on the UA a little too. I do like the Sumer UA by Tomatekh, where they start cities with more population (more on rivers), but it doesn't feel like a CBP UA to me. That can be part of it, but I think it's lacking a certain pizzaz, if you will. We also need a name for said UA!!!
The UU is pretty simple, as I think it should be. It'll replace either a spearman or swordsman, and be a little stronger. We could give it a friendly lands bonus, as from my understanding Vultures were used as pretty heavy city defense in time of peace, or even a bonus vs non-mounted melee units. I think most wars that Sumer fought in were basically waves of infantry being thrown at each other, so their unique unit being good at fighting other foot soldiers wouldn't be too much of a stretch historically.
As for borders, who likes the classic Pink and Baby blue and who likes my Dark Green with light green trim idea? I like it because it feels like a "green Babylon" to me. EDIT: I forgot about Arabia having pretty much that exact colour scheme.
The UU is pretty simple, as I think it should be. It'll replace either a spearman or swordsman, and be a little stronger. We could give it a friendly lands bonus, as from my understanding Vultures were used as pretty heavy city defense in time of peace, or even a bonus vs non-mounted melee units. I think most wars that Sumer fought in were basically waves of infantry being thrown at each other, so their unique unit being good at fighting other foot soldiers wouldn't be too much of a stretch historically.
As for borders, who likes the classic Pink and Baby blue and who likes my Dark Green with light green trim idea? I like it because it feels like a "green Babylon" to me. EDIT: I forgot about Arabia having pretty much that exact colour scheme.
As I said earlier, if you want an "early start" UA, I've got my dumpstered America UA. That along with something else of minor to medium power would probably suffice.
Sun Pope
Warlord
Well, tell us what your dumpstered America UA is, and then we can see if we like it.
I posted it earlier.
Every city settled gains plus X population (scales with era) and one free worker
It's hardly enough to carry a UA, it is sorta similar to the gold on settle that Carthage gets, but more limited.
phantomaxl1207
King
Sounds like a variation of the Shoshone. If the other Uniques are more interesting than it's fine.
Shoshone get extra tiles, this gets you extra pop and a worker, nothing really similar.
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I'd like to offer an alternative to the Vulture.
Sumer was one of the first people to use mobile military power. Before they had chariots, they had battle-wagons pulled by wild donkeys. The crew was armed with axes and also transported warriors into battle.
For Civ, it could replace the Chariot Archer, but available from the start of the game. Sumer could also start with one instead of a warrior as part of the UA, like the Shoshone with their Pathfinder. It would also be melee preferably, and upgrade to Horsemen.
I believe the Anno Domini mod has a Battle Wagon unit model, if the author would be amenable to sharing.
Again, just offering it as an alternative. The thing that has always bothered me about Vultures is that they are based on a single carving which happened to be decorated with vultures, and there's no real indication of what made those troops unique.
Sumer was one of the first people to use mobile military power. Before they had chariots, they had battle-wagons pulled by wild donkeys. The crew was armed with axes and also transported warriors into battle.
For Civ, it could replace the Chariot Archer, but available from the start of the game. Sumer could also start with one instead of a warrior as part of the UA, like the Shoshone with their Pathfinder. It would also be melee preferably, and upgrade to Horsemen.
I believe the Anno Domini mod has a Battle Wagon unit model, if the author would be amenable to sharing.
Again, just offering it as an alternative. The thing that has always bothered me about Vultures is that they are based on a single carving which happened to be decorated with vultures, and there's no real indication of what made those troops unique.
Wouldn't it be better replacing the horseman?
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Perhaps, as long as it comes before the Chariot Archer.
