Superheroes!

[EgonSpengler]

Finished Hawkeye and Falcon and Winter Soldier.

Should we take the matter-of-fact report to mean that you weren't impressed?

 

[Cutlass]

Should we take the matter-of-fact report to mean that you weren't impressed?

More that I know I'm behind all the discussions. I liked Hawkeye. Steinfeld did a really good job. I particularly liked when she told Clint about seeing him in the Battle of New York. I actually had the graphic novel at least part of that show was based on. But I donated it to the library. The difference in the book is that the Clint in the book isn't the Clint in the MCU. But the Kate in the book to a large extent is the Kate on the show. As is the one eyed dog and track suit mafia.

Falcon and Winter Soldier I liked, but not as much. Was OK. But I felt they did a poor job with that new assigned Capt. That story line was just not well handled.

 

[EgonSpengler]

More that I know I'm behind all the discussions. I liked Hawkeye. Steinfeld did a really good job. I particularly liked when she told Clint about seeing him in the Battle of New York. I actually had the graphic novel at least part of that show was based on. But I donated it to the library. The difference in the book is that the Clint in the book isn't the Clint in the MCU. But the Kate in the book to a large extent is the Kate on the show. As is the one eyed dog and track suit mafia.

Falcon and Winter Soldier I liked, but not as much. Was OK. But I felt they did a poor job with that new assigned Capt. That story line was just not well handled.

I don't think the discussion here needs to be up to date. Nobody's talking about Moon Knight, anyway.

I'm only passingly familiar with the Matt Fraction comic everybody raves about, but I agree that Steinfeld did a superb job. She and Florence Pugh had great chemistry. I think the 'fight' scene starting in the elevator might have been one of my favorite sequences in the whole MCU. If there isn't a Hawkeye & The Black Widow down the road, I'll think Ike Perlmutter is back in charge. (Have I mentioned yet today that I hate Ike Perlmutter? ) Tony Dalton was a riot. I don't necessarily need to see Jack/The Swordsman again, but I wouldn't object, either. Alaqua Cox and Vera Farmiga were both good, although they were both among the many plot set-ups that didn't get resolved to any degree of satisfaction. One criticism I heard of Hawkeye was that half the episodes felt like "back-door pilots" for other shows, and I kind of understand what they meant. It felt like the series started a lot of balls rolling and didn't wait to see where they all went. We know Cox is getting an Echo show, so that's okay, but I'm worried we'll never see Farmiga's character again. I don't know if Feige & Co have said anything about a 2nd season of Hawkeye, and if Steinfeld/Bishop features in some other series, like a Young Avengers, I don't see how there'd be much room for Farmiga. I liked the fight scenes, and I liked the family stuff with Clint and his kids (I loved the scene with Kate writing out what Clint's son is saying on the phone). All in all, I thought it was a successful series.

I liked Falcon okay, but it's in 4th-place among the Disney+ series right now (it's too early to rate or rank Moon Knight). That one felt kind of half-baked to me. There's a theory around the interwebz that a whole plotline about a global disease pandemic was lifted out of the show, and I think somebody did a YouTube video that was at least thought-provoking, if not fully convincing. iirc, it highlighted scenes (Karli going to visit her dying mother, who was played by an accomplished actress and yet she had no lines?) and lines of dialogue that seem to come out of nowhere and lead to nothing, and lines of dialogue spoken off-screen (that is, the person speaking isn't onscreen when we hear his voice, which could indicate a voiceover in post-production... or not - I think that was in the scene with the scientist in the shipping containers). The showrunner denies it, so I suppose we'll never know, but that series felt seriously disjointed to me. So much so that the 'crackpot' web-theory actually kinda fits.

I haven't gone back to rewatch any of these shows since watching them the first time, so of course I reserve my right to change my mind. Similarly, a lot of these unresolved plotlines are deliberate. All of these shows are clearly setting up later stories, by design, so it's hard to know which plotholes will be filled in later and which won't be. My ultimate sense of whether these series were a success will be affected by whether and how the unresolved stories get tied up later.

 

[Buster's Uncle]

Falcon and Winter Soldier I liked, but not as much. Was OK. But I felt they did a poor job with that new assigned Capt. That story line was just not well handled.

I rather liked what they did with John Walker as replacement Cap in the comic - he was a jerk who tried to live up to the legacy after starting out criticizing Cap as a stiff. I'm told they tried to do something on those lines in the show, but didn't seem to find enough time to do it justice...

 

[Cutlass]

I rather liked what they did with John Walker as replacement Cap in the comic - he was a jerk who tried to live up to the legacy after starting out criticizing Cap as a stiff. I'm told they tried to do something on those lines in the show, but didn't seem to find enough time to do it justice...

These shows really are too short for much of any substance.

 

[Cutlass]

I don't think the discussion here needs to be up to date. Nobody's talking about Moon Knight, anyway.

I'm only passingly familiar with the Matt Fraction comic everybody raves about, but I agree that Steinfeld did a superb job. She and Florence Pugh had great chemistry. I think the 'fight' scene starting in the elevator might have been one of my favorite sequences in the whole MCU. If there isn't a Hawkeye & The Black Widow down the road, I'll think Ike Perlmutter is back in charge. (Have I mentioned yet today that I hate Ike Perlmutter? ) Tony Dalton was a riot. I don't necessarily need to see Jack/The Swordsman again, but I wouldn't object, either. Alaqua Cox and Vera Farmiga were both good, although they were both among the many plot set-ups that didn't get resolved to any degree of satisfaction. One criticism I heard of Hawkeye was that half the episodes felt like "back-door pilots" for other shows, and I kind of understand what they meant. It felt like the series started a lot of balls rolling and didn't wait to see where they all went. We know Cox is getting an Echo show, so that's okay, but I'm worried we'll never see Farmiga's character again. I don't know if Feige & Co have said anything about a 2nd season of Hawkeye, and if Steinfeld/Bishop features in some other series, like a Young Avengers, I don't see how there'd be much room for Farmiga. I liked the fight scenes, and I liked the family stuff with Clint and his kids (I loved the scene with Kate writing out what Clint's son is saying on the phone). All in all, I thought it was a successful series.

Thing I have here is, just who is the Avengers currently? Tony, Steve, and Nat are dead. Clint is trying to get out of it. Banner seems out (did his arm ever heal?). Thor is off with Guardians of the Galaxy. It's start over time for the Avengers. With Kate Bishop becoming the new Hawkeye (AFAIK that's part of the comics). Scarlett Witch if they can get her. But she's got her own thing too. As do Dr Strange and Spiderman (who no one remembers anyways.) So there's Black Falcon America and Winter Soldier for a core.

I liked Falcon okay, but it's in 4th-place among the Disney+ series right now (it's too early to rate or rank Moon Knight). That one felt kind of half-baked to me. There's a theory around the interwebz that a whole plotline about a global disease pandemic was lifted out of the show, and I think somebody did a YouTube video that was at least thought-provoking, if not fully convincing. iirc, it highlighted scenes (Karli going to visit her dying mother, who was played by an accomplished actress and yet she had no lines?) and lines of dialogue that seem to come out of nowhere and lead to nothing, and lines of dialogue spoken off-screen (that is, the person speaking isn't onscreen when we hear his voice, which could indicate a voiceover in post-production... or not - I think that was in the scene with the scientist in the shipping containers). The showrunner denies it, so I suppose we'll never know, but that series felt seriously disjointed to me. So much so that the 'crackpot' web-theory actually kinda fits.

I haven't gone back to rewatch any of these shows since watching them the first time, so of course I reserve my right to change my mind. Similarly, a lot of these unresolved plotlines are deliberate. All of these shows are clearly setting up later stories, by design, so it's hard to know which plotholes will be filled in later and which won't be. My ultimate sense of whether these series were a success will be affected by whether and how the unresolved stories get tied up later.

Moon Knight was too strange for me to get into. And it's off too far to the side of the rest of the MCU. So dunno what to say about it.

 

[EgonSpengler]

I rather liked what they did with John Walker as replacement Cap in the comic - he was a jerk who tried to live up to the legacy after starting out criticizing Cap as a stiff. I'm told they tried to do something on those lines in the show, but didn't seem to find enough time to do it justice...

Right, there were a few story threads that I thought had great potential, and Walker was one of them. Unfortunately, the show just tried to do way too much.

These shows really are too short for much of any substance.

Well, c'mon now, let's not get crazy here. Six ~50-minute episodes is the equivalent of a trilogy of feature films (or maybe a pair of feature films, if we go by MCU standards of 2½-3-hr movies ).

Thing I have here is, just who is the Avengers currently? Tony, Steve, and Nat are dead. Clint is trying to get out of it. Banner seems out (did his arm ever heal?). Thor is off with Guardians of the Galaxy. It's start over time for the Avengers. With Kate Bishop becoming the new Hawkeye (AFAIK that's part of the comics). Scarlett Witch if they can get her. But she's got her own thing too. As do Dr Strange and Spiderman (who no one remembers anyways.) So there's Black Falcon America and Winter Soldier for a core.

Yeah, I think the Avengers have to be done. I suppose Stark Industries still exists, with Pepper in charge, so they could continue to fund a team, but she has no connection to anyone who's still around. I don't know why she'd fund a team of strangers.

They've got some of the pieces lined up for The Defenders, although I don't know if they'll use that name, since the Netflix series did (which was dumb of them, but I believe in the "yes, and' style of moving forward with these things - what's done is done, I don't want to be retconning those series).
They've also got some of the pieces for Midnight Sons and Young Avengers and West Coast Avengers, but I wouldn't want to actually call them "Young Avengers" or "West Coast Avengers." I think those names are boring and lazy.

Moon Knight was too strange for me to get into. And it's off too far to the side of the rest of the MCU. So dunno what to say about it.

I kind of feel the same way, but for different reasons. I'm reluctant to offer too much of a verdict on these first 3 episodes, because I know they're an incomplete story and I'm hoping the whole thing really comes together and I can then see what the early chapters were doing. Right now, I'm liking it, but I'm not loving it.

 

[RobAnybody]

I thought Hawkeye was really entertaining when it focused on the main character. It was a brave choice to wait almost 4 whole episodes for her to show up though.

 

[Samson]

I thought Hawkeye was really entertaining when it focused on the main character. It was a brave choice to wait almost 4 whole episodes for her to show up though.

I got about three or four episodes in and stopped watching. Perhaps I should restart.

 

[EgonSpengler]

I thought Hawkeye was really entertaining when it focused on the main character. It was a brave choice to wait almost 4 whole episodes for her to show up though.

I liked Clint and Kate, but I wouldn't judge anybody who thinks Florence Pugh is the best part (of anything, really).

I got about three or four episodes in and stopped watching. Perhaps I should restart.

Have you seen Black Widow?

 

[Samson]

Have you seen Black Widow?

The film, yeah.

 

[EgonSpengler]

The film, yeah.

Black Widow isn't something I'd bother recommending to most people, but if you've seen it anyway, picking up where you left off with Hawkeye might be worth it. Don't cancel your plans or anything, but there's 1 or 2 scenes with Pugh that are stellar.

 

[Clubber Lang]

Batman: The Audio Adventures -

Trailer -

1

2

After years of crime fighting, Batman prepares to become an official Gotham employee and deepens the rift between himself and Catwoman, who's been using Gotham criminals for financial gain.

The 10 episode series is meant to be an homage to the original 1966 Batman t.v. series as well as the 1990s Batman: animated series

------------

In other D.C. news...

Warner Bros. Discovery Exploring Overhaul of DC Entertainment (EXCLUSIVE)

The new owners of all things Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman are exploring an overhaul of DC Entertainment, multiple sources close to the situation told Variety.

It’s been less than a week since Discovery closed its $43 billion deal for WarnerMedia, joining one of the largest producers of reality programming with one of the most venerable entertainment brands under the new moniker of Warner Bros. Discovery. David Zaslav, the CEO of the combined companies, and top leadership have been toying with the idea of turning DC into its own solidified content vertical, the sources said.

The move would potentially affect DC feature film development in the Warner Bros. Pictures Group, streaming series at Warner Bros. Television, and the creative arm within DC proper — all in an effort to have the disparate elements more closely aligned in order to maximize the value of the superhero stable — one often seen as punching up against Marvel.

Before the merger closed, Zaslav vetted candidates with experience in creating and nurturing blockbuster intellectual property with a goal of potentially finding someone to serve as a creative and strategic czar similar to what Marvel has in Kevin Feige. One of those candidates included Emma Watts, a former top film executive at 20th Century Studios and Paramount, but it does not appear that Watts will take the job. One insider suggested that Zaslav was less interested in finding a creative guru and more eager to hire someone who had the type of business background needed to keep all the different factions at DC working more harmoniously.

Insiders say that Zaslav believes that the success of the merger, one that has left the company highly leveraged, will rest in no small part on unlocking the full potential of the DC Comics universe of characters. Discovery insiders believe that although DC has achieved cinematic success with recent films such as “Aquaman” and “The Batman,” it lacks a coherent creative and brand strategy. Discovery believes that several top-shelf characters such as Superman have been left to languish and need to be revitalized. They also believe that projects like Todd Phillips’ “Joker” are a shining example of how second-billed characters from the DC library can and should be exploited (Margot Robbie’s Harley Quinn was another opportunity, though “Birds of Prey” missed the mark).

DC has started to figure out ways for its big screen films to inspire more streaming content — recent examples include the HBO Max show “Peacemaker,” which was a spinoff of “The Suicide Squad,” as well as an upcoming planned series on Colin Farrell’s The Penguin and Gotham City’s police force. But the company believes that DC must do more to grow its approach to comic book fare, including bolstering gaming. Under Walter Hamada, who took over DC Films from Jon Berg and Geoff Johns in 2018, the unit has achieved more consistency in terms of both the critical and commercial reception to the company’s movies. He is under contract until the end of 2023 and could play an important role in whatever Zaslav has planned.

Zaslav has pledged to find $3 billion in synergies in the newly merged company, a signal of how important cost cutting will be to Warners’ new owners. Mining DC’s library of characters could help control spending as Warner Bros. Discovery owns the underlying intellectual property, insiders say.

Upcoming DC Films projects include a sequel to Zachary Levi’s “Shazam,” a sequel to Jason Momoa’s “Aquaman,” the long-awaited franchise started “Black Adam” with Dwayne Johnson, and a third installment of Gal Gadot’s “Wonder Woman.”

 

[EgonSpengler]

The trailer for Thor is pretty cool. I think Taika Waititi has the best visual style in the MCU right now, maybe in all of movies (but I'm eager to see what Raimi does with Dr. Strange). If I cared about The Eternals or The Inhumans, I'd wish he'd done either of those. I think Chris Hemsworth may be one of our best action-comedy stars. And I did not recognize Natalie Portman in that helmet. Like, at all. (And are those really her arms or was that CGI? )

 

[EgonSpengler]

I rewatched the first couple of episodes of Jessica Jones over the weekend, and with Dr. Strange coming up and No Way Home not too far behind us, I naturally started thinking about alternate-universe "variants" of the main characters.

Some of the casting jumped into my head right away. Alison Brie as Jessica; Michael Sheen as Kilgrave; Yahya Abdul-Mateen as Luke. Kathleen Robertson and Ali Larter popped into my head to play Trish, but that's clearly my age showing. At first, I was thinking that you need to cast someone who appears to be the same age as Jessica. But could a variant-Jessica be Trish's little sister? Would that create an interest dynamic that separates them from their "prime" versions? I'll have to think about that. I also thought of Tatiana Maslany as Jessica, probably because Sarah in Orphan Black was so similar, but since she's doing She-Hulk I decided to go with Brie. I haven't come up with a variant Jeri Hogarth yet.

But in some ways, the casting is the easy part. To create a good variant of an existing character, you have to bend the character's personality or story in some way that still seems plausible. Either refashion her within the boundaries of her personality as we know her - change the emphasis of one character-trait over another - or craft some alternate outcome from a critical plot point. The latter is like a mini-Nexus Event within the character's story, even if it isn't a full-fledged, alternate-universe-defining, change to history - although it could be that, too. I can see Michael Sheen doing a Kilgrave that's not far off of David Tenant's version. I think he's a bit more impish. Tenant played Kilgrave as kind of angry; I think Sheen would be more playful (while still being basically evil, of course - I don't want to make Kilgrave too likeable). I feel like Alison Brie also has a different energy from Krysten Ritter, even though both are more than capable of balancing drama with humor (and I think the humor is vital, given how heavy the subject matter is). My first thought was that Brie could play a version of Jessica who hasn't fallen into the clutches of Kilgrave yet. Brie could be playing the Jessica that we saw Ritter play in flashbacks, but in the present; she has her strength, but she hasn't met Kilgrave. Older now, not quite as bubbly and naive as she was in those flashbacks, but also not the sardonic, alcoholic, PTSD-sufferer that Ritter played. Somewhere in the middle. I'm not sure if that character is as interesting as Ritter's damaged version, but since we're talking about a 'variant' she doesn't have to carry a whole series the way Ritter did (and hopefully will again).

Now, Daredevil variants... I'm thinking Tyler Labine as Foggy...

 

[Cutlass]

I rewatched the first couple of episodes of Jessica Jones over the weekend, and with Dr. Strange coming up and No Way Home not too far behind us, I naturally started thinking about alternate-universe "variants" of the main characters.

Some of the casting jumped into my head right away. Alison Brie as Jessica; Michael Sheen as Kilgrave; Yahya Abdul-Mateen as Luke. Kathleen Robertson and Ali Larter popped into my head to play Trish, but that's clearly my age showing. At first, I was thinking that you need to cast someone who appears to be the same age as Jessica. But could a variant-Jessica be Trish's little sister? Would that create an interest dynamic that separates them from their "prime" versions? I'll have to think about that. I also thought of Tatiana Maslany as Jessica, probably because Sarah in Orphan Black was so similar, but since she's doing She-Hulk I decided to go with Brie. I haven't come up with a variant Jeri Hogarth yet.

But in some ways, the casting is the easy part. To create a good variant of an existing character, you have to bend the character's personality or story in some way that still seems plausible. Either refashion her within the boundaries of her personality as we know her - change the emphasis of one character-trait over another - or craft some alternate outcome from a critical plot point. The latter is like a mini-Nexus Event within the character's story, even if it isn't a full-fledged, alternate-universe-defining, change to history - although it could be that, too. I can see Michael Sheen doing a Kilgrave that's not far off of David Tenant's version. I think he's a bit more impish. Tenant played Kilgrave as kind of angry; I think Sheen would be more playful (while still being basically evil, of course - I don't want to make Kilgrave too likeable). I feel like Alison Brie also has a different energy from Krysten Ritter, even though both are more than capable of balancing drama with humor (and I think the humor is vital, given how heavy the subject matter is). My first thought was that Brie could play a version of Jessica who hasn't fallen into the clutches of Kilgrave yet. Brie could be playing the Jessica that we saw Ritter play in flashbacks, but in the present; she has her strength, but she hasn't met Kilgrave. Older now, not quite as bubbly and naive as she was in those flashbacks, but also not the sardonic, alcoholic, PTSD-sufferer that Ritter played. Somewhere in the middle. I'm not sure if that character is as interesting as Ritter's damaged version, but since we're talking about a 'variant' she doesn't have to carry a whole series the way Ritter did (and hopefully will again).

Now, Daredevil variants... I'm thinking Tyler Labine as Foggy...

I rewatched JJ s1 about 2 months ago. I think Ritter is the best choice. If you're redoing it for a reboot with younger actors, Brie is past that. And I'm afraid that as I get older, I know fewer of the younger ones to suggest casting.

 

[Synobun]

The trailer for Thor is pretty cool. I think Taika Waititi has the best visual style in the MCU right now, maybe in all of movies (but I'm eager to see what Raimi does with Dr. Strange). If I cared about The Eternals or The Inhumans, I'd wish he'd done either of those. I think Chris Hemsworth may be one of our best action-comedy stars. And I did not recognize Natalie Portman in that helmet. Like, at all. (And are those really her arms or was that CGI? )

Real, but steroids. (Not judgement. Male stars need to do it too. It's a requirement for getting the definition they need in so short a time.)

I'm very, very skeptical of the new movie. I don't like the Guardians or Portman, but Taika's Ragnarok is one of my all-time Marvel favourites.

 

[EgonSpengler]

I rewatched JJ s1 about 2 months ago. I think Ritter is the best choice. If you're redoing it for a reboot with younger actors, Brie is past that. And I'm afraid that as I get older, I know fewer of the younger ones to suggest casting.

Yeah, no, I couldn't support the idea of a reboot of any of the Netflix series with new actors. We already know that Charlie Cox and Vincent D'Onofrio are back on board. I've read that Deborah Ann Woll, Krysten Ritter, and Jessica Henwick would all come back, if asked. I don't know about Elden Henson or Rachael Taylor. Obviously, it doesn't make total sense to bring David Tennant back (since we're talking about variants, it's easy to imagine a story in which you would bring Tennant back, but I don't think I want to see that story). Mike Colter is doing Evil, and I don't want him distracted from that, but he might able to do Luke Cage again. Jon Bernthal could be tricky. He seems to be the busiest of all of them. And frankly (pardon the pun), I don't really need to see The Punisher right now. I think Rosario Dawson is also a busy-beaver, but I don't think her character is crucial; if she could do it again, great. I would like to see Daughters of the Dragon, and I have no idea what Simone Missick is doing these days. On the whole, I would say if any of these actors are unavailable or uninterested, then I wouldn't want to see the 'prime' versions of any of these characters played by someone else. Matt Murdock and Wilson Fisk are probably the two most-important characters to bring back, and we've got those actors back already; the rest would be frosting on the cake, for me.

As for variants, I do think there's a case to be made for occasionally having the same actor play the variant. Loki being the best example, I think. Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness also apparently has Cumberbatch playing his own variant(s), so we'll see how that plays out. If there's ever a story where you want the variant to be confused with the 'prime' version, you'd of course want the same actor. Also, if they bring Captain Carter from the animated series to the live-action stuff, I absolutely want Hayley Atwell to reprise the role. But for the most part, I'm keen on the idea that variants don't have to so closely resemble the 'prime' version. I feel like it opens things up a bit. Clearly, Ritter is versatile enough to play a version of Jessica who never fell under Kilgrave's spell, but I liked the opportunity to cast someone else as that variant. Loki of course is also the best example of using another actor to play a variant - so far, I think Loki is the only character whose variants are of different genders, ethnicities, and species - just as it's the best example of using the same actor. I thought Richard E. Grant's old-school Loki was great, I wished we'd gotten to see more of him.

Do I still need to post Spider-Man: No Way Home notes in spoiler tags?

Spoiler :

Actually, No Way Home is the best example of using other actors to play variants. Even though Marvel/Disney kind of fell into it backwards, having the three actors onscreen together was just brilliant. I mean, it was such a success that people have wondered aloud whether Sony could re-start Andrew Garfield's movies. I'm sure the business side of the character's film rights are Byzantine, and could bring everything to crashing halt, but Sony have to be thinking about it. No idea whether Garfield is interested, but if he sees how many zeros will be on the check...

 

[Arakhor]

Do I still need to post Spider-Man: No Way Home notes in spoiler tags?

I think it's only sensible and considerate.

 

[EgonSpengler]

I think it's only sensible and considerate.

Yeah, looking it up just now, it's only been out 4 months. It feels like I saw it ages ago.