Support in recent conflicts (poll)

[hangman]

No I understand that, and that's a very sensible approach.

But you said you support Palestine, taking Hamas out of the equation. I wondered why you'd not support Israel, taking it's government out of the equation.

Or to put it in negatives: Not support Palestine, putting Hamas back into the equation, or not supporting Israel, putting it's government back into the equation.

And I typo'd Putin once while trying to write putting. I'm being manipulated

Ah, right. I think the issue is that we are reading the poll question two different ways. I'm reading it as, "where do you stand as things are now?" versus "who are you biased towards?" If we are considering the second question, I'd say neither on both accounts, obviously

 

[illram]

The Palestinian government and the Israeli government both share blame for the violence. I support true advocates of peace on both sides.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Kaiserguard, the voice of dissent!

Preach it brother, be different, be your own man!

 

[hangman]

Also, I should clarify that I don't have a problem with Crimea being broken off as a separate state or as a Russian territory. However, their referendum lacked any legitimacy IMO.

 

[Harv]

I like to think I support innocent people just wanting to live their lives without the risks of war. So I don't particularly support any particular state or state-like entity in these conflicts.

Isn't this one of the definitions of freedom?

 

[hangman]

Kaiserguard, the voice of dissent!

Preach it brother, be different, be your own man!

Still waiting on the Palestine/Russia combo so we can construe them as an axis-of-evil supporter

 

[cybrxkhan]

Also, I should clarify that I don't have a problem with Crimea being broken off as a separate state or as a Russian territory. However, their referendum lacked any legitimacy IMO.

That referendum didn't feel right to me either.

 

[Phrossack]

That referendum didn't feel right to me either.

Army without any identifying symbols marches into country, forces country's soldiers to surrender within their own bases. Neighboring major power denies the soldiers are theirs. Soldiers turn out to be theirs. Said neighbor's forces seize most of neighboring country's navy because reasons. Neighboring power then holds referendum, asking members of conquered territory to either join them now or join them later. There is no third option. Members of neighboring power say that it was justified because some other completely unrelated country they don't like did something they didn't like years ago, thereby justifying all invasions forever because two wrongs make a right.

Hell no it doesn't feel right.

 

[Tahuti]

Kaiserguard, the voice of dissent!

Preach it brother, be different, be your own man!

Thank you, thank you!

Now, to be serious, I have to say my Pro-Russian beliefs have been put to the test due to the events of plane crash - and I have a stake in it, since I just learnt that friends of friends have died on the crash. Yet, I also believe that the demands for the rebels and Russia are the key to solving the Ukrianian crisis, so I am prepared to forgive that, as callous and lazy I fear it may sound.

Now, I have more straightforward reasons to support Israel: I was simply raised that way. I did rebelled at one point by supporting Palestine, though I have become convinced the Pro-Palestinian is a matter of groupthink supported by a snowball effect. In some ways, I think my Pro-Palestinian episode has made my current Pro-Israel convictions stronger; I completely understand the Pro-Palestinian reasoning, I just do not agree with it.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Army without any identifying symbols marches into country, forces country's soldiers to surrender within their own bases. Neighboring major power denies the soldiers are theirs. Soldiers turn out to be theirs. Said neighbor's forces seize most of neighboring country's navy because reasons. Neighboring power then holds referendum, asking members of conquered territory to either join them now or join them later. There is no third option. Members of neighboring power say that it was justified because some other completely unrelated country they don't like did something they didn't like years ago, thereby justifying all invasions forever because two wrongs make a right.

Hell no it doesn't feel right.

Yeah, all that seemed pretty fishy, if you ask me.



I would also like to add, though it is a relatively minor detail, that that referendum literally came out of the blue and happened so fast nobody had time to properly react, in my opinion. It's like as if when I wake up tomorrow the governor suddenly announced there will be a referendum the next day on whether California should declare independence.

 

[Oruc]

Palestine and Russia.
Not entirely sold on Palestine though.

 

[Phrossack]

Yeah, all that seemed pretty fishy, if you ask me.



I would also like to add, though it is a relatively minor detail, that that referendum literally came out of the blue and happened so fast nobody had time to properly react, in my opinion. It's like as if when I wake up tomorrow the governor suddenly announced there will be a referendum the next day on whether California should declare independence.

There are two options: Yes and eventually. Thousands of soldiers will ensure that voting is done correctly.

Of course it's entirely justified because over there they lynch Negroes.

 

[Oruc]

I would also like to add, though it is a relatively minor detail, that that referendum literally came out of the blue and happened so fast nobody had time to properly react, in my opinion. It's like as if when I wake up tomorrow the governor suddenly announced there will be a referendum the next day on whether California should declare independence.

Best way to do it, otherwise you just let the media dictate.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Best way to do it, otherwise you just let the media dictate.

It's still too fast, regardless. It's not typical for referendums to be suddenly held out of the blue.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Oruc representing!

All options accounted for. Diversity baby, yeah!

 

[Goodfella]

Let's see if my impression is correct.

I have a feeling that impression is that most people would vote for the first option. I could see how you might think that, but most people on here are too nuanced.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

The Israeli and Palestinian leadership are both dominated by bitter, angry, irrational people with no regard for human life.

The Ukrainian government is criminally incompetent and a loose collection of disparate, irrational groups, including many violent extremists.

The Donetsk rebels are violent extremists who killed hundreds of civilians and made a clumsy attempt to cover it up.

Don't even get me started on Russia.

Should we 'not get you started on Russia' because you are bitter, angry, and irrational?

Can you suggest any point whatsoever in being a 'peaceful extremist' since the world's 'mainstream' is demonstrably violent and well known for exterminating extremists whether they are peaceful or not...unless they can totally* marginalize them of course?

*defined as landless, penniless, and voiceless, as a minimum. Also cannot exist in any significant numbers.

 

[Oruc]

It's still too fast, regardless. It's not typical for referendums to be suddenly held out of the blue.

Didn't they have a week? I had to vote less then 5 minutes after first hearing what I was voting on, now that was fast. No time to talk or discuss with people you know to find out what you aren't being told.

 

[Goodfella]

Should we 'not get you started on Russia' because you are bitter, angry, and irrational?

I'm sure there's something in between loving Russia and being 'bitter, angry, and irrational." We're talking about an increasingly homophobic place that annexed another nation's territory by force and a place where most people are content with maniacal leadership in the past and present.

 

[Phrossack]

Should we 'not get you started on Russia' because you are bitter, angry, and irrational?

No. The problems I have with Russia's government are well-founded and numerous enough that they would derail the thread into a cesspit of nationalists defending their wounded pride.

Can you suggest any point whatsoever in being a 'peaceful extremist' since the world's 'mainstream' is demonstrably violent and well known for exterminating extremists whether they are peaceful or not...unless they can totally* marginalize them of course?

*defined as landless, penniless, and voiceless, as a minimum. Also cannot exist in any significant numbers.

...What?