Susan G. Komen for Cure pulls funding from planned parenthood

[BasketCase]

Actually, Machinae, I think that whole question is irrelevant here. Whether abortion is murder or not, abortion foes think it is, and that's not likely to change any time soon.

The OP was more about whether abortion foes went too far in believing what they believe. Normally I would have said "yes", but lately this country has been on a politically-correct slippery slope, granting bennies to everybody else who finds something offensive, so it's religious peoples' turn to get a bennie.

Religion doesn't belong in our schools. But lately school admins have been kicking Christians to the curb and keeping all the others. Religion shouldn't be using public money. Yet a mosque in New York gets public money, while a Greek Orthodox church badly damaged in the 9/11 attack, gets bumped to the back burner.

The real irony in what I just wrote here is, I'm an atheist.

 

[Traitorfish]

So I see you've moved from sentience to sapience. Interesting, that.

Not really, I just realised that my vegetarian ethics are not the norm, and because this means that sapience rather than sentience is the generally understood baseline for a "right to life", it makes a better starting point for this discussion.

(Personally, I don't think that abortion can be reduced to a question of sentience, as if the foetus was growing inside a box instead of inside an actual human being, but that's a slightly more contentious line of argument.)

 

[El_Machinae]

Yeah, traitorfish, your position does seem to be aberrant. Or, at least compared to me. I certainly value human sentience (not sapience), but when it comes to eating animals, I care about sapience. Well, I care about animal sentience as it pertains to suffering, but that's about it.

 

[Traitorfish]

Yeah, I'm very much out of the ordinary on this one, so my choice of words in the post in question was made with that in mind. I'm questioning CelticEmpire's assertions, rather than advancing a counter-assertion.

 

[useless]

Looks like they're reversing their decision and going back to funding PP. A victory for sanity!

 

[Ayn Rand]

under edit [I only saw the first page lolz]

 

[El_Machinae]

If people want to feel better regarding their current mistrust of Komen, I'll put it out there that colorectal cancer research is (relatively) vastly underfunded relative to its incidence, treatment difficulty, and mortality rate. If you find a decent anti-cancer charity of this flavor, you can divert your money (and those of your friends) from the Pink campaign to a campaign that might get a bit more value for your money ...

It's a way to create a win-win situation regarding your goodness and your rage.

 

[Me,myself,and,I]

Alright my use of "voluntary" previously, should by rephrased as "movement exited by external stimuli."

Do none of you care that that child will one day become a human being? If the mother is not in danger then I would say aborting the child simply because you don't want it is evil. Actions have consequences learn to live with them. However I think that the law should fail to treat abortion as anything but an optional medical procedure until such time as we can get a scientific definition of "life".

 

[useless]

And in the case of women who are raped/victims of incest..?

 

[Ajidica]

"movement exited by external stimuli."

Yes, bacteria respond to external stimuli, some by moving.

Do none of you care that that child will one day become a human being?

A zygote is no more a human being then the egg the woman evacuates from her body every month or so.

 

[El_Machinae]

Do none of you care that that child will one day become a human being?

VERY VERY MUCH.

I want every baby born to have the maximum opportunity and advantage we can provide. I want it to come into a home that's as good as possible, from a womb that's as healthy as possible, into a system that's as loving as possible.

Forcing non-sentient organisms to grow into persons, without the guarantee of a healthy and loving home, strikes me as being the wrong thing to do.



(Trees respond to external stimuli, by the way. So do chickens. But only one of those examples can feel terror or pain)

 

[Traitorfish]

Do none of you care that that child will one day become a human being?

I don't. Why should I? It's not a human being now, as you yourself admit, and that's the only relevant criteria.

 

[Me,myself,and,I]

And in the case of women who are raped/victims of incest..?

I would be willing to accept abortion in that situation to, as that is in no way her responsibility.


As for the other comments, this is why I suggest putting the child up for adoption. Should the child not be allowed to grow up?

Also, do you know[I/] that the child, which is growing and moving and breathing and therefore plainly living, cannot feel pain? Are you certain?

@Traitorfish: You sir, remind me of my really weird friend. Not remotely afraid to state opinions that are wildly out of the main stream. Ah, well. If that's your way of looking at it nothing I say will convince you otherwise. I say it is a human being now. You say it will be later, whatever, same thing in my book.

 

[aelf]

@Traitorfish: You sir, remind me of my really weird friend. Not remotely afraid to state opinions that are wildly out of the main stream. Ah, well. If that's your way of looking at it nothing I say will convince you otherwise. I say it is a human being now. You say it will be later, whatever, same thing in my book.

I'm sorry, which view is "wildly out of the main stream"?

 

[Bestbank Tiger]

Looks like they're reversing their decision and going back to funding PP. A victory for sanity!

Your definition of sanity is an organization that claims to be funding breast cancer research decided to keep diverting money to other causes?

 

[useless]

Because obviously PP is just about abortion.

 

[Bestbank Tiger]

Because obviously PP is just about abortion.

Well, good point. Plus Komen is their only source of funding. They'll go bankrupt if Komen doesn't tell the public it's raising money for cancer research and then give the money to organizations that don't do cancer research.

 

[kochman]

I guess abortions weren't so effective at curing breast cancer anymore...

Why should any private charity have an obligation to support anything that they don't want to?
If it is objectionable, stop your support to them, as you are a private charity too... end of story.

Anyhow, other folks have already stepped up. Bloomberg is giving $250,000 by himself. PP will survive, trust me.

 

[useless]

Well, good point. Plus Komen is their only source of funding. They'll go bankrupt if Komen doesn't tell the public it's raising money for cancer research and then give the money to organizations that don't do cancer research.

It's not just about cancer research, but also mammograms and helping women with breast cancer (and even men with testicular cancer!).

 

[Bestbank Tiger]

It's not just about cancer research, but also mammograms and helping women with breast cancer (and even men with testicular cancer!).

So give to an organization that provides mammograms. Planned Parenthood doesn't do them and doesn't claim to: http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/planned-parenthood-challenged-on-purported-mammogram-claim/2011/03/30/AFjCFO3B_story.html

Plus what happened to mammograms being bad because Obama's healthcare panel said they were?