Target' No Vote, and Retail Unions in America

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Isn't this a question you can answer yourself? Interactions between unions and companies are voluntary. The state is force.

Base your company in another country then. Love it or leave it.

 

[Traitorfish]

No I am not. And this is why it's not even worth responding to Arwon half the time.

I say.

John is at position A, and wants to get to position Z. But in order for John to get to position Z he must do: B, C, D, E, and F in order to accomplish this goal.

But B, C, D, 4, and Ω all assume certain preconditions which you can only, on the face of things, be assured will be through B, Q, И, أَكْبَر and

already having been achieved, which, as Arwon comments, is circular. Take your blether about "collective organisation"- you assume a degree of spontaneous or pre-existing social organisation which assumes social and material conditions far above that which actually exist, and could only be realistically achieved by improving education and employment prospects, which you offer no solution to beyond demanding an unrealistic level of organisation, and so on and so forth, round and round.

And given that your following polemic basically adds up to an insistence that individuals should do X, as if it was possible to at the same make society-wide generalisations that ignore individual circumstances while refusing to deal with problems as anything more than individual, so I'm not sure that I even need to take it into account.

 

[Elta]

Please, no CATO or I get to start quoting Marx. They are two very distinct entities. One is a morally bankrupt lie-spewing machine that can't see beyond its own self-imposed blinkers, and the other is Karl Marx.


Ask either of our two professional economists (Integral and Jericho) and they will both say that the ideal market found in the econ 101 supply/demand charts rarely, if every, perfectly apply to the real world. The only places where they can be used with some degree of accuracy is with luxury goods and even then, you have to adjust them beyond a zero sum game.

Verbatim the first thing that crossed my mind.

 

[Arwon]

But just once it'd be nice to see them simply acknowledge that if your average poor kid just sat down in the chair and paid attention in school that the breadth of our social problems would go away and turn into an easily manageable problem.

This is not the point of contention.

 

[downtown]

Relevant to our little side tangent:

Within the 7,000 sampled school districts:

*

3,000 schools serving nearly 500,000 high school students offer no algebra 2 classes, and more than 2 million students in about 7,300 schools had no access to calculus classes.
*

Schools serving mostly African-American students are twice as likely to have teachers with one or two years of experience than are schools within the same district that serve mostly White students.
*

Only 2 percent of the students with disabilities are taking at least one Advanced Placement class.
*

Students with limited English proficiency make up 6 percent of the high school population (in grades 9-12), but are 15 percent of the students for whom algebra is the highest-level math course taken by the final year of their high school career.
*

Only 22 percent of local education agencies (LEAs) reported that they operated pre-k programs targeting children from low-income families.
*

The full press release is here. http://www.ed.gov/news/press-releas...09-10-civil-rights-data-collection-show-conti

"shutting up and paying attention" is not going to be as valuable when your school doesn't offer any college-prep math classes, and your teacher has no idea what he's talking about because he's new.

 

[Ajidica]

No college-prep math classes? Seriously? A college prep math is mandatory for graduation in my district. I thought it would be the same elsewhere.

 

[downtown]

No college-prep math classes? Seriously? A college prep math is mandatory for graduation in my district. I thought it would be the same elsewhere.

There are not many states that require the completion of Algebra II for all HS graduates (although there are more than there were say, 15 years ago). For poorer districts, Students may just take Algebra I and Geometry (or in states that require the completion of three math credits, Pre-Algebra, Algebra I and Geometry). While most suburban districts require the completion of 4 math classes, I don't think more than 5 states do.

Lack of funding + Students coming to HS unprepared to do grade level work = lack of postsecondary preparatory curriculum.

 

[civver_764]

Of course they should join a union. That's like asking if people should register to vote.

 

[Archbob]

The workers voted no, so the Union needs to stay out. If they don't want you to represent them, you should not be able to force yourself on them. The union's only pushing the issue because it wants to collect those extra dues.

Honestly whether or not to join a union should be each worker's decision, not the decision as a group.

If the vote was 132-87 or whatever. The 87 should be able to join and the 132 should be able to tell the union to go take a hike.

 

[downtown]

You can't really have a union represent less than half of the workers. There wouldn't be a point.

 

[JollyRoger]

The workers voted no, so the Union needs to stay out. If they don't want you to represent them, you should not be able to force yourself on them. The union's only pushing the issue because it wants to collect those extra dues.

Honestly whether or not to join a union should be each worker's decision, not the decision as a group.

If the vote was 132-87 or whatever. The 87 should be able to join and the 132 should be able to tell the union to go take a hike.

So each shareholder should be represented by board members of his individual choice rather than the one voted on by the group of shareholders?

 

[Archbob]

You can't really have a union represent less than half of the workers. There wouldn't be a point.

Getting people to join is the Union's problem, its not the government's problem or the company's problem. A union should be like a voluntary club that represents its members. The government should neither encourage unions nor discourage them. A union is just cartel of workers anyways in principle.

So each shareholder should be represented by board members of his individual choice rather than the one voted on by the group of shareholders?

That's not the same thing. Stop being stupid Jolly, you do it in about every post where you really don't have a point. If there are less board members than shareholders then, it needs to be a group decision. But see saying that there are more Union members than there are Union members doesn't make any sense. Even you should be able to comprehend that. Its like each shareholder decides himself/herself whether he/she wants to buy into the company or not. No one can force him/her to buy stock. But whether, you yourself want to join the Union or not is not a group decision, it is your individual decision. If the shareholder want direct democracy in a company, they should have it, but they don't most of the time because they don't want the trouble of making the decisions.

 

[JollyRoger]

Getting people to join is the Union's problem, its not the government's problem or the company's problem. A union should be like a voluntary club that represents its members.

You volunteer by remaining employed. Just like you "volunteer" to a company's new arbitration policy in employment-dispute matters by remaining employed.

 

[Junius]

You volunteer by remaining employed. Just like you "volunteer" to a company's new arbitration policy in employment-dispute matters by remaining employed.

So workers shouldn't be able to vote to prevent unionization?