Tell me about Ralph Nader and the Green Party

[zulu9812]

I've been hearing some whisperings about the possibility of a 3rd party in America: the Green Party. I know I could just read their literature, but I'd really like to hear some independent opinions on the Green Party and Ralph Nader in particular. What's their background, how did they form, how long they've been around, how they relate to the voters, how fast they're growing, what their policies are, etc.

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

Ralph Nader ran with the Green Party last year, got a few % of the vote and was likely one of serveral different sufficient casues for Gore Losing. This year he is running as an independant, NOT a green (They are a little too wacko for his taste). His main theme is anti two party republican/democrat system. He feels the too party system is too moribund and is dominated by business lobbiests.

 

[Archer 007]

Nader is not a member of the Greens. He's an indy who ran as the Green candiate.

Info on the Greens:
The Green Party -- the informal US-affiliate of the left-wing, environmentalist European Greens movement -- scored a major achievement when it convinced prominent consumer advocate Ralph Nader to run as their first Presidential nominee in 1996. Spending
just over $5,000, Nader was on the ballot in 22 states and carried over 700,000 votes (4th place - 0.8%). In 2000, Nader raised millions of dollars, mobilized leftist activists and grabbed national headlines with his anti-corporate campaign message. Nader ignored pleas from liberal Democrats that he abandon the race because he was siphoning essential votes away from Al Gore's campaign -- answering that Gore was not substantially different than Bush and that his own campaign was about building a permanent third party. In the end, Nader was on the ballot in 44 states and finished third with 2,878,000 votes (2.7%) -- seemingly depriving Gore of wins in some key states. More significantly, Nader missed the important 5% mark for the national vote, meaning that the party will still be ineligible for federal matching funds in 2004 (Note: a third Nader run is still possible as he said "I haven't ruled out going in 2004" in February 2002). Until 2001, the Greens are largely a collection of fairly autonomous state/local based political entities with only a weak (and sometimes splintered) national leadership structure that largely served to coordinate electoral activities. This faction -- formerly named the Association of State Green Parties (ASGP) -- is the larger and more moderate of the two unrelated Green parties. The ASGP voted in 2001 to convert from an umbrella coordinating organization into a formal and unified national party organization. Other useful Green Party links and information can also be found at the Green Parties of North America (unofficial), Green Information (unofficial), Green Pages (official online magazine), Green Party News Circulator (official - recent news clippings about the party) and Green Party Election Results sites (unofficial). The official youth wing of the party is the Campus Greens. Strong local Green Parties exist -- with ballot status -- in a handful of states. The Green Party Platform 2000 sets forth the party's official views. The Green Alliance is an officially sanctioned, national network of Green Party political clubs.

 

[Archer 007]

The smaller Green Party:
The G/GPUSA is
the older, smaller and more stridently leftist of the two Green parties. While the GPUSA also nominated Nader for President in 2000, Nader rejected the G/GPUSA nomination and embraced the other Green party. Prominent Nader campaign strategist Jim Hightower described the two Green factions as follows in 2001: "There are two Green party organizations -- the [Green Party of the US] whose nomination Ralph accepted and the much smaller one [G/GPUSA] ... on the fringes ... [with] all sorts of damned-near-communistic ideas." Some in the G/GPUSA protested that Hightower's comments were a bit unfair -- but read the G/GPUSA 2000 Platform and decide for yourself. While the Green Party and the rival G/GPUSA appear to be very similar -- they advocate tactical (and some ideological) differences and somewhat compete with claims to the titular leadership of the national Green movement. The G/GPUSA largely emphasizes direct action tactics over traditional electoral politics. A majorty of the G/GPUSA delegates voted that the party's 2001 convention to merge into the Green Party of the US -- but the motion ultimately failed for lack of the required 2/3 majority. That outcome prompted many of the G/GPUSA activists to independently jump to the Green Party of the US -- forming a new leftist caucus within the Green Party of the US -- and leaving the G/GPUSA as a sizably diminished and more dogmatically Marxist party.

 

[Archer 007]

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
was likely one of serveral different sufficient casues for Gore Losing.

This year he is running as an independant, NOT a green (They are a little too wacko for his taste).

He cost Gore the election. Nader votes said that if he had not run, 67% would have voted Gore and 33% would have voted Bush. Remove Nader and test those numbers nation-wide. Gore would have won both New Hampshire and Florida

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Originally posted by zulu9812
I know I could just read their literature, but I'd really like to hear some independent opinions on the Green Party and Ralph Nader in particular.

Ok heres an independent opinion on Darth Nader and the Green Party: the best friends the Republican Party ever had.

 

[Archer 007]

Originally posted by Dumb pothead

Ok heres an independent opinion on Darth Nader and the Green Party: the best friends the Republican Party ever had.

The Greens have now make a policy of staying out of close presidental races (such as this year).

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Archer 007
He cost Gore the election. Nader votes said that if he had not run, 67% would have voted Gore and 33% would have voted Bush. Remove Nader and test those numbers nation-wide.

This is based on the assumption that said voter would have voted at all, had their only choices been the two major parties, whereas a large portion, if not a prepoderance of their votes, are predominately protest votes against the two party system and the two parties. Usually third parties add more voters to the mix, rather than taking them from another party. The result was slow close however, in Florida, that it likely did swing the election there.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Originally posted by Archer 007
The Greens have now make a policy of staying out of close presidental races (such as this year).

I didnt know that, last thing I heard they were planning a nominating convention.

 

[Stapel]

A new political party that is either left or right from the current political spectrum, will never become really important. If there is something to change, it will be in the middle.

Right now, the GOP has fans among religious conservatives and free enterprisers.
These two groups do not combine well per se. If a real political change in the USA will come forward,it will most likely be a party with liberal views on both fiscal and social issues. Something like libertarians.

 

[IglooDame]

Originally posted by Stapel
A new political party that is either left or right from the current political spectrum, will never become really important. If there is something to change, it will be in the middle.

Right now, the GOP has fans among religious conservatives and free enterprisers.
These two groups do not combine well per se. If a real political change in the USA will come forward,it will most likely be a party with liberal views on both fiscal and social issues. Something like libertarians.

Don't you mean fiscally conservative and socially liberal? That's where I'd put myself on a political map, and I count myself as a libertarian.

 

[Bobo the Ape]

He cost Gore the election. Nader votes said that if he had not run, 67% would have voted Gore and 33% would have voted Bush. Remove Nader and test those numbers nation-wide. Gore would have won both New Hampshire and Florida

This is the same thing Republicans said about Bush Sr./Clinton and Perot.

Why is it that so many people get upset about the two party setup and wish for a viable third party and then complain when one actually arises?

Maybe the people who voted for Perot/Nader voted for them because what they were saying is what the voter agreed with.

but I'd really like to hear some independent opinions on the Green Party and Ralph Nader in particular.

In my opinion the thing about Nader is that he's based mostly in slogans. Basically his platform is "Things should be better for everyone". This is of course true. However, when actually pressed on how to achieve this he generally just mumbles something about forming a commitee.......

 

[Stapel]

Originally posted by IglooDude


Don't you mean fiscally conservative and socially liberal? That's where I'd put myself on a political map, and I count myself as a libertarian.

Yes, that is what I mean.

But I used the word liberal for fiscal issues in a sense that I mean that a government should not interfer with business. Companies should have more freedom. More fiscal freedom = liberal on fiscal issues.

The the word 'liberal' is used in the US is quite funny, I think.

 

[Archer 007]

Originally posted by IglooDude


Don't you mean fiscally conservative and socially liberal? That's where I'd put myself on a political map, and I count myself as a libertarian.

In European termanoly, liberal means libertarian. American liberals would be semi-socialist.

 

[Archer 007]

Originally posted by Bobo the Ape


This is the same thing Republicans said about Bush Sr./Clinton and Perot.

Why is it that so many people get upset about the two party setup and wish for a viable third party and then complain when one actually arises?

Maybe the people who voted for Perot/Nader voted for them because what they were saying is what the voter agreed with.

I agree about the Bush/Clinton/Perot thing. Most liberals refuse to admit

My AP Govt. teacher for next year (who I already had for World History last year) said he voted Perot just because he wanted to see the House deside it.

 

[Little Raven]

Originally posted by Dumb pothead
I didnt know that, last thing I heard they were planning a nominating convention.

They may nominate someone, but they aren't going to invest any money in promoting a candidate. Following the debacle of 2000, the Greens have decided to concentrate on picking up local power....they're going after seats on the community level. They rightly fear that having their party attached to another Republican victory on the national level could result in backlash that would destroy the party. That's why they sent Nader packing.

 

[Archer 007]

Originally posted by Little Raven
They may nominate someone, but they aren't going to invest any money in promoting a candidate. Following the debacle of 2000, the Greens have decided to concentrate on picking up local power....they're going after seats on the community level. They rightly fear that having their party attached to another Republican victory on the national level could result in backlash that would destroy the party. That's why they sent Nader packing.

This was the same idea that the Socialists used in the 1910s. Even though getting less votes in 1912, they were stronger then the party that came in second in the presidental elecion (Bull Moose), since Bull Moose had no elected officials and Socialists had thousands.

 

[marioh]

Originally posted by Dumb pothead

Ok heres an independent opinion on Darth Nader and the Green Party: the best friends the Republican Party ever had.

LOL ! Yeah, I would've voted for a Democrat if it wasn't for a third party.

I refuse to vote for either of those corrupt parties (dems, repubs).

So basically, no third party candidate, I don't vote. I don't see how that's going to help the dems...

 

[Archer 007]

They aren't corrupt, the Constition is.

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

The Constitution doesn't even mention parties. That whole deal was started by Andrew Jackson. And he had a lot of help from Jefferson and Hamilton.