tesbs further flavored civilizations [development thread]

[tesb]

@Iska Jarak
i found that out recently too, i will update the pedia entry. unfortunately even if the tag <bMilitarySupport> is set to zero the unit will still cost you a bit of upkeep.

unless i find i way to eliminate the upkeep for those units completely i have to leave it as it is.

Edit: zombies are not meant to be defenders and suffer a huge penalty for fighting in cities. they too face the same problem. As do all summons by the way, even elementals and the like cost upkeep.

 

[Valkrionn]

@Iska Jarak
i found that out recently too, i will update the pedia entry. unfortunately even if the tag <bMilitarySupport> is set to zero the unit will still cost you a bit of upkeep.

unless i find i way to eliminate the upkeep for those units completely i have to leave it as it is.

Edit: zombies are not meant to be defenders and suffer a huge penalty for fighting in cities. they too face the same problem. As do all summons by the way, even elementals and the like cost upkeep.

They'll cost you supply costs, but shouldn't cost regular upkeep IIRC.

Though I don't really remember specifics... Long since been a tag in FF and RifE which eliminates it completely.

 

[tesb]

yeah such a tag would be helpful

 

[graywarden]

No, as of now those entries are missing. What would help me more is, if you could review them (check choice of words, etc.). I will send them to you via pm this week or post them here. The reason i left them out is, that those entries will be long and lore heavy. If i would have written them before, the release would have been delayed by 1 to 4 days.

tesb,

I have placeholders tags ready, so send me your entries as you have them ready, or what you have and I can help work on them for you.

 

[Sephi]

What currently does not work:

Basically all additions that need python scripts don't work:
-The Worldspell: Death March
-Dark Ritual (Both the population increase and the faction standing decrease.)
-The Ritual: Death's Embrace
Edit:
-Skeletons still cost a bit of upkeep

Further Bugs/ Unfinished entries:

-The Autocast option for Death Pact and Dark Ritual only works for the tier 5 version of those spells. This is due to how the tag <ObsoletedBySpells> work. If the autocast option would recognize the technology requirement of the higher versions of those spells this problem would be solved.
-The Aristrakh use the same colors as the Calabim. This could make problems when both civilizations are in play and have touching borders.
-There are 5 unwritten pedia entries: (Nikephoros, Aristrakh (+guide), Death's Embrace (+strategy)
-The upgraded Banshees are in need of a better name

Things to add in the future:
-Building Replacements for useless/ unfluffy buildings (like infirmary, market etc.)
-New Art for improvements, like the farm for example.
-Balance tweaks


Apart from the problems mentioned above, please report if you have any issues or suggestions. Any feedback is welcome.

Python for World Spell and Dark Ritual done.

Will add faction standing decrease for Dark Ritual later as it needs lots of DLL modifications. Will check Autocast stuff when I merge the Civ.

To give the Civ a unique color you need to add a colorval XML item (see Faeries for example).

Suggestions:
simply block useless buildings like Kael did for the Infernal (CivilizationInfos)

Lots of Spells are tied to a Worldunit. Could cause issues in games when more than one Aristrakh Civilization is present. Maybe want to add a national Unit and tie the Spells to it.

Some Units have weird XML Names like UNIT_X1, UNIT_X2 etc. Might want to change them to names easier to recognize, for example change UNIT_ZOMBIE3 to UNIT_ZOMBIE_RANGER so you easily see that it is the UU of a Ranger.

Updated Files
(only file modified is the Spellinfos file to link to python)

 

[Sephi]

oh, another thing. Might be useful to create a new thread dedicated only to the Aristrakh and then put all the info and current progress into the first post.

 

[tesb]

@Sephi
My very thanks for your help

To give the Civ a unique color you need to add a colorval XML item (see Faeries for example).

on it

simply block useless buildings like Kael did for the Infernal (CivilizationInfos)

i will make replacements for those since i want the techs to be still viable. an example would be animal mastery and poisons: those doesn't grant you new units, but the zombies gain at least some new spells.

Lots of Spells are tied to a Worldunit. Could cause issues in games when more than one Aristrakh Civilization is present. Maybe want to add a national Unit and tie the Spells to it.

Making Nikephoros a national unit should do.

Some Units have weird XML Names like UNIT_X1, UNIT_X2 etc. Might want to change them to names easier to recognize, for example change UNIT_ZOMBIE3 to UNIT_ZOMBIE_RANGER so you easily see that it is the UU of a Ranger.

To me the current system is much better arranged then your suggestion, especially for the reinforcement spells. I just wanted so see immediately what unit is the next version of the other. The place the unit takes can still be easily seen in the unitclass, right above the unit type.

oh, another thing. Might be useful to create a new thread dedicated only to the Aristrakh and then put all the info and current progress into the first post.

I wanted to make new thread where all changes (once they are merged) are consolidated and which would act as a reference, since this is still a development thread.

 

[tesb]

Pedia entry for Nikephoros for review, please comment:

Spoiler :

"So you took the long journey just to judge me. You left your petty castles in which you hide like mere animals. Let me ask you: Do you still lick your lips when a foreigner enters? Are you still getting nervous when the bootlicks of the Empyrean enter your so called cities? Do you still feel a lingering hunger after every feast you take?

You want to judge me, but is you being judged! The world judges you, for you are abominations in their eyes, an evil that needs to be put down. And I judge you for what you are: Cowards! You are being given the most marvelous gift in the whole of Erebus but still you let the jealousy of those lesser creatures impede on your true nature.
I once was like you, filling the void inside me with endless nights feasting on the puppets in my realm, concealing my true nature from outsiders and myself and living with that disgust for i would not embrace my true nature.

I give you a choice, do like i do or begone! There are only two ways: Be what you are or be swept away by the lesser races."


Nikephoros was the first Calabim defector that would outright satisfy his hunger with the souls of his victims, not caring what other people might think. His disgust for the Calabim that still maintain their way of life is well known and an anathema to other leaders of the Calabim, although some secretly want to join him. It is his pride that gave him the courage to truly live as himself and it is his pride that might kill him for every other civilization despises the Aristrakh for either being an abomination on the face of the earth or a very dangerous opponent in their plans for domination.

 

[graywarden]

Pedia entry for Nikephoros for review, please comment:

Spoiler :

"So you took the long journey just to judge me. You left your petty castles in which you hide like mere animals. Let me ask you: Do you still lick your lips when a foreigner enters? Are you still getting nervous when the bootlicks of the Empyrean enter your so called cities? Do you still feel a lingering hunger after every feast you take?

You want to judge me, but is you being judged! The world judges you, for you are abominations in their eyes, an evil that needs to be put down. And I judge you for what you are: Cowards! You are being given the most marvelous gift in the whole of Erebus but still you let the jealousy of those lesser creatures impede on your true nature.
I once was like you, filling the void inside me with endless nights feasting on the puppets in my realm, concealing my true nature from outsiders and myself and living with that disgust for i would not embrace my true nature.

I give you a choice, do like i do or begone! There are only two ways: Be what you are or be swept away by the lesser races."


Nikephoros was the first Calabim defector that would outright satisfy his hunger with the souls of his victims, not caring what other people might think. His disgust for the Calabim that still maintain their way of life is well known and an anathema to other leaders of the Calabim, although some secretly want to join him. It is his pride that gave him the courage to truly live as himself and it is his pride that might kill him for every other civilization despises the Aristrakh for either being an abomination on the face of the earth or a very dangerous opponent in their plans for domination.

tesb, your english is better then most, i found two very minor "grammarical" items that I fixed. otherwise great work buddy! (Ive already inserted into files)

 

[tesb]

Pedia entry for the Aristrakh for review, please comment:

Spoiler :

The Aristrakh are a group of Calabim defectors, lead by Nikephoros. Following his paradigm the Aristrakh strengthen their vampiric characteristics by consuming the life-force of their realm. Since there are only very few Airstrakh Vampires they have to make use of their necromantic powers to raise an army of undead and even their cities are inhabited by the walking dead. Being mere puppets of the will of their masters, those undead are average warriors at best. It is the endless horde of bones and rotting flesh that gives them their strength to compete with other civilizations. Once the Aristrakh Civilization has significantly progressed, it may attract more Vampires to join their ranks. Those Vampires are more powerful then any Calabim counterpart, or any other comparable creature for that matter. Once a Vampire ascends to Lordship he can use his daunting powers to control the terrifying Dracolich.

Since no living creature dares to enter the realm of the Aristrakh, or only with the intend of purging them, Nikephoros has to use his unique powers to raise warriors of eons long ago to serve him. Doing so however is an affront to every other civilization for they either honor the dead or fear what may happen if the Aristrakh become too strong. Every significant undead army will nourish on the population of the Aristrakh cities, meaning that maintaining a powerful undead legion will most propably cause war with most races.

tesb, your english is better then most, i found two very minor "grammarical" items that I fixed. otherwise great work buddy! (Ive already inserted into files)

One is the missing it in

You want to judge me, but it is you being judged!

,
but what is the other error?

 

[tesb]

Pedia entry for the The Ritual: Death's Embrace:

Spoiler :

Nikephoros lead the way. It was he that freed the Calabim of their self-delusion of harnessing their powers to their fullest extend. It was he that freed them of their despair they encountered when realizing that the hunger deep inside would not vanish, no matter on how many victims they would feast upon. And it is he that will bring an end to Calabim way of life: Either the other races will destroy him for his audaciousness or they will fall prey to the unleashed hunger of the Aristrakh.

Strategy entry for the The Ritual: Death's Embrace:

Spoiler :

Completing this ritual will kill all of your living nonvampirc units and change your civilization to the Aristrakh. Make sure to spread the gift of Vampirism to every unit possible and growing your cities to the fullest extend before finishing this ritual.

Edit: I will write the guide later, when most of the mechanics are set in stone. As of now there may come some balance changes.

Edit2: @Sephi do you plan on adding a no upkeep tag?

 

[tesb]

@Sephi

Lots of Spells are tied to a Worldunit. Could cause issues in games when more than one Aristrakh Civilization is present. Maybe want to add a national Unit and tie the Spells to it

An other solution would be to make ritual a "world wonder" i.e. it can only be build once (i think this is already true edit: yes it is) and disable the Aristrakh from being chosen as a default starting race. I don't know if this is possible however or if it would be a good idea, since it would limit the access to this civilization quite a lot.

 

[Sephi]

Making Nikephoros a national unit should do.

most hero mechanics are tied to the Worldunit Status, so not really an option. For example you could rebuild the Hero every time you loose him.

To me the current system is much better arranged then your suggestion, especially for the reinforcement spells. I just wanted so see immediately what unit is the next version of the other. The place the unit takes can still be easily seen in the unitclass, right above the unit type.

agreed on the spells. You see the unitclass only when you look at the unitinfos, not when you read some python code that simply points to Zombie3 or a unitprereq in the spell XML. No need to change them, just a suggestion for the future.

An other solution would be to make ritual a "world wonder" i.e. it can only be build once (i think this is already true edit: yes it is) and disable the Aristrakh from being chosen as a default starting race. I don't know if this is possible however or if it would be a good idea, since it would limit the access to this civilization quite a lot.

How about keeping the local population spells at the hero and replacing the global ones by a national project (which costs less production as you gain the later techs)? National project means repeatable but only 1 per player at a time.

 

[tesb]

How about keeping the local population spells at the hero and replacing the global ones by a national project (which costs less production as you gain the later techs)? National project means repeatable but only 1 per player at a time.

To keep it consistent i would do this with both type of spells. The local version could be build simultaneous, while the global version would be a national project like you said. I would keep the button art, names and tech route and just convert them to projects.

Edit: how do you make it, so a project gets obsoleted by an other project? i don't like to see the city screen full of different versions. with spells this is very easily done, but buildings/projects?

 

[tesb]

i like the idea of making the two spells into rituals more and more. i could implement buildings (well they are mostly done) with iSpaceProductionModifier set to some amount, there is a lot of room for synergies. just tell me if you could implement a tag similar to obsoleted by spells but for projects.

 

[DonQuigleone]

I have a question, the Calabim Vampires are already very powerful (I might say a bit too powerful, with the near unlimited levels of XP they can get). How are the new civs vampires going to be significantly more powerful without being overpowered?

 

[tesb]

they have a very limited amount of vampires (12 ancient, 4 lords, 4 bruhjas, 2 dracolich riders, the hero, 4 phalanx, although if you switch from the calabim you can take your vampires over to the aristrakh) and their standard troops are very basic. it is quite a different race. also their population/recruitment mechanic works against their ability to gain xp, since most troops cost population. Of course if it turns out that they are really overpowered i will tweak them.

 

[Sephi]

just tell me if you could implement a tag similar to obsoleted by spells but for projects.

maybe not a tag but I will add something to make sure only one Ritual is shown when you have decided what to do.

I will most likely add the noSupport tag for promotions. do some playtesting first though

 

[tesb]

How about keeping the local population spells at the hero and replacing the global ones by a national project (which costs less production as you gain the later techs)? National project means repeatable but only 1 per player at a time.

does this need python work, because i can't make a ritual that is repeatable but can only be build in one city at a time?

I will go for the Ritual route mainly because there can be more players playing as the Aristrakh without problems and the ai shoud be much better handling the rituals then the spells, meaning it should not be that much of a problem for the ai to play as the aristrakh, so could even make the ritual death's embrace (the one that changes the calabim civilization into the new one) available to the ai.


Edit: I am theory-crafting at the moment.

There is a problem with the local version (Death Pact) at the moment:
-In the late game (or to be more precise in cities with a good production) it needs to be expensive but adds several citizens, this is because you don't want to micromanage your cities and assigning the same project every turn is boring
-In the beginning however it needs to be cheap, since you will need this as a start off and get your game running.

My solution was that higher tiers of the spell add more population but it would also cost more. The ratio cost/population-gain would decrease so it would be worthwhile researching.

This brings me to another problem however: let's assume the player still founds new cities in the late game then he would have a problem since the local version would take far too long to complete in a small city, he has to use the global version to kick it off.
I could circumvent this by not letting the higher tier rituals obsolete the lower tier ones, this would clutter the screen however.
The best solution would be if the ritual would be not only dependent on the technology, but also on the city size. If this could be implemented you will always have the best option available and the screen would always show two rituals available at maximum: the global and the local one.

 

[Sephi]

The best solution would be if the ritual would be not only dependent on the technology, but also on the city size. If this could be implemented you will always have the best option available and the screen would always show two rituals available at maximum: the global and the local one.

This is easily possible (thanks to python)