The 65-Civ Mod!

[abbamouse]

I think a central African civ such as Kongo or Buganda would be nice to have. I'd also like to see the Khmers, who had quite a major empire -- and built Angkor Wat, one of the wonders in the game. The last suggestion I'd make is to combine the Ottomans and Turks, since the Ottomans were Turks. Simply use the multiple leaders/single civ approach.

Oh, and one civ I really enjoyed playing in Civ III was the Tibetans (in DyP, I believe). Those ghurkas (actually Nepalese) are great, and Tibet was a major empire for several hundred years (and a minor one for more than 1000 years).

 

[Head Serf]

The First 18

1. America
2. Arabia
3. Aztecs
4. Egypt
5. China
6. Japan
7. India
8. Spain
9. England
10. Germany
11. France
12. Inca
13. Russia
14. Rome
15. Greece
16. Persia
17. Mali
18. Mongolia

Yes

1. Sumeria
2. Israel
3. Maya
4. Canada
5. Carib
6. Bulgaria
7. Babylon
8. Vikings
9. Huns
10. Carthage
11. Ethiopia
12. Vietnam
13. Korea
14. Austria
15. Ottomans
16. Portugal
17. South Africa
18. Minoa
19. Argentina
20. Brazil
21. Siam
22. Polynesians
23. Micronesians
24. Syria
25. Ukraine
26. Sioux
27. Iroqouis
28. Inuits
29. Switzerland
30. Mexico
31. Poland
32. Australia
33. Netherlands

That's 51 total, with a need for 14 more. Here are the reasons I kicked some of the other choices.

Scotland
Essentially the same as England in my opinion (please don't attack me for that )

Aboriginies
Was a very small group, very primitive, and had next to no effect on any other civilization.

Tupis
Was very small, and is not important when compared to Brazil, Aztecs, Mexico, or the Inca.

Holy Roman Empire
Was a conglomerate of France, Italy/Burgundy, and Germany.

Berber
I have never heard of Berber.

Pakistan
The seccesion of Pakistan and Bangledesh is so recent that I don't think it should be put in as its own civilization.

Hawaii
Again, too small of a civilization, had little effect on the world besides "selling" its land to the USA.

Finland
I think that there are better Scandinavian countries to include besides Finland.

Congo
Has had very little effect on the world, the natives are extremely primitive, and the governments are very corrupt and not into foreign affairs.

Turks
The Ottoman Empire includes the Turks as its major faction and although the Turks did have an important part in the midevil world, I don't want two nations to have the same capital. Mexico City and Tenotihiclan don't count because the Spanish majorly rebuilt the city.

Madagascar
Hell, I wasn't even aware Madagascar had anything that could remotely be considered a civilization besides the lemurs.

Belgium
I think that Belgium is not needed since we already have The Netherlands.

Now to what countries I think should be included:

What Else to Include

1. Norway
2. Denmark
3. Songhai
4. Scythians
5. Lebanon
6. Moors / Alohomads
7. Macedon (Yes, it is seperate than Athens and Sparta)
8. Ireland
9. Columbia
10. Ottowa
11. Tibet
12. Sri Lanka
13. Zululand
14. Masai

There ya go, that's my list!

 

[abbamouse]

Oh, and I'll second (or third) Mexico. It's really an amazingly diverse place which developed its own distinct culture even prior to US independence.

 

[abbamouse]

I don't want to hog the thread, but I had to respond to Head Serf:

Aboriginies
Was a very small group, very primitive, and had next to no effect on any other civilization.

They survived for 30,000 or so years in some of the most inhospitable terrain on the planet. They also occupied a rather large chunk of land. They really should be in.

This reminds me: I forgot to list my favorite civ from my own civ pack for Civ III: The Inuit. They survived in places where Europeans died off (ie Greenland, where the Vikings failed to hold on) and while they've never had a united polity, their culture circles much of the globe (albeit in areas around the Arctic Circle). I'd love to see Nunavut or some other Inuit civ.

Tupis
Was very small, and is not important when compared to Brazil, Aztecs, Mexico, or the Inca.

I would agree with some of this, but my impression is that they were selected because they fill an otherwise empty geographic niche on the map. I could be wrong on this.

Berber
I have never heard of Berber.

Then you know nothing of North Africa, since they're a majority there, with a long history of confrontation with the state. They were a true nomadic civ, with immense range.

Hawaii
Again, too small of a civilization, had little effect on the world besides "selling" its land to the USA.

I think a Hawaiin leader should be in the Polynesian civ. Hawaii is culturally part of Polynesia.

Congo
Has had very little effect on the world, the natives are extremely primitive, and the governments are very corrupt and not into foreign affairs.

Had an immense effect on central Africa before colonization. Still exercises an immense influence, having recently been the battlefield for "Africa's First World War" with dense networks of alliances on both sides. Oh, and it's huge and fills a geographic niche. As for "primitive" natives, I think someone's been watching too much Tarzan and reading too litttle real anthropology or political science.

Madagascar
Hell, I wasn't even aware Madagascar had anything that could remotely be considered a civilization besides the lemurs.

Look up Malagasy. My goodness, can't you even be bothered to consult Wikipedia or some similarly pre-digested research? Interestingly, there's substantial evidence of "Polynesian" settlement of Madagascar!

 

[Red Door]

Abbamouse, its fine with me. Dont say you're hogging the thread.

[Scotland
Essentially the same as England in my opinion (please don't attack me for that )
/QUOTE]

Uh, they're definetly not the same. Try saying that to a Scotsman.

[/Aboriginies
Was a very small group, very primitive, and had next to no effect on any other civilization.
QUOTE]

Are you kidding me? They dominated a whole continent before white people came in. This is a "missing" civilization.

Tupis
Was very small, and is not important when compared to Brazil, Aztecs, Mexico, or the Inca.

Yeah, they were small. Probably out.

Holy Roman Empire
Was a conglomerate of France, Italy/Burgundy, and Germany.

Don't worry, they're gone.

Pakistan
The seccesion of Pakistan and Bangledesh is so recent that I don't think it should be put in as its own civilization.

I think I needed a civ from the Hindu Kush area. Maybe Pushtans would be better?

Berber
I have never heard of Berber.

North African traders, probably should put in Morocco instead.

Hawaii
Again, too small of a civilization, had little effect on the world besides "selling" its land to the USA.

I'm sorry, they were a nation. I think they belong in.

Finland
I think that there are better Scandinavian countries to include besides Finland.

And those countries are represented by Vikings. Finland doesnt belong in Vikings, therefore they get their own civ.

Congo
Has had very little effect on the world, the natives are extremely primitive, and the governments are very corrupt and not into foreign affairs.

They are a civ to fill Central Africa.

[QUOTETurks
The Ottoman Empire includes the Turks as its major faction and although the Turks did have an important part in the midevil world, I don't want two nations to have the same capital. Mexico City and Tenotihiclan don't count because the Spanish majorly rebuilt the city.

The Turks are different from Ottomans. Dont worry, I can get this done. I mean, the capital thing.

Madagascar
Hell, I wasn't even aware Madagascar had anything that could remotely be considered a civilization besides the lemurs.

Madagscar, I admit, was a poor decision. Would probably be better to cut.

Belgium
I think that Belgium is not needed since we already have The Netherlands.

Three words:Major Colonial Power, they deserve to be in.

What Else to Include

Norway
Denmark
Songhai
Scythians
Lebanon
Moors / Alohomads
Macedon (Yes, it is seperate than Athens and Sparta)
Ireland
Columbia
Ottowa
Tibet
Sri Lanka
Zululand
Masai

Norway-represented by Vikings.
Denmark-see above
Songhai-same as Mali? might be able to pull it off
Scythians-where are they from?
Lebanon-too small, can be represented by Syria seeing that Syria dominated them for 30 years.
Moors-Hmm...I could see this.
Macedon-we already decided that Greece was too crowded. They were on original list.
Ireland-i thought i put them in. I'm guessing Celts wont satisfy you.
Columbia-too unimportant in world affairs unless we have drug trade in mod.
Ottowa-not even a country.
Tibet-consider them in.
Sri Lanka-I like this idea.
Zululand-I didnt put them in. I meant to. Actually, I have South Africa. Does that satisfy you?
Masai-A pretty good idea but would crowd area with Sioux.

I think a central African civ such as Kongo or Buganda would be nice to have. I'd also like to see the Khmers, who had quite a major empire -- and built Angkor Wat, one of the wonders in the game. The last suggestion I'd make is to combine the Ottomans and Turks, since the Ottomans were Turks. Simply use the multiple leaders/single civ approach.

Oh, and one civ I really enjoyed playing in Civ III was the Tibetans (in DyP, I believe). Those ghurkas (actually Nepalese) are great, and Tibet was a major empire for several hundred years (and a minor one for more than 1000 years).

That's why Congo is in. Khmers are going to be in. I keep getting two sides on Turks. Tibetans will be in.

If you want an ancient civilization , then put in the Illyrians.

Where are they from?

Yay Mexico is in,

back on the topic ummm..... you got the Zulus right, and Ethiopia. How about ummmm..... (I type while I think lol) how about civs in Oceania their mostly excluded and have a good amount of native american tribes.

This is a far out idea but how about African-Americans? So far I thinks they are the most advance of all african cultures.

I have Polynesians, Micronesians, and Aboriginies. Is that okay?
I think African-Americans is a little too far. They're a race, not a civilization. Don't worry, I'm not racist.

 

[FullyCompletely]

I vote yes on Finland. They should not be considered Scandinavian. Sweden, Denmark and Norway are all covered by the Vikings, while Finland is not. I would recommend also including Sweden.

 

[Pooks]

Scythian I dont think they would fit in.. because most of the countries we have in this are Modern day countries and not really ethnic groups ancient countries

..but i did a lot of reading on them lately so i'll write about them


Scythia used to an ancient Civilization that controlled Basically Russia between 900BC and 300BC (so 6 Centuries).. They traded a lot of goods with the greeks, and were pretty wealthy, and were very nomadic horseman etc.. and animist... .. were famous in greece for their woman warrior.. greeks started talking about amazon woman. basically think of Conan the barbarian and the characters in that movie.

they were of Iranian decent.. If i had to place their capital it would go between the Black sea and the Caspian sea... kind of where chechyna/Armenia/azerbaijan is today

After 4BC a tribe within Scythia become dominant Sarmatia..

the mongols started to push the Sarmatians West into europe.. causing the Sarmatians to really clash with the Romans.. which eventually helped end the Roman empire..

Sarmatians are prolly slavs today
Thats the description.i

 

[magnate]

Are you going to do extra art for this mod? As far as I can see, there are only three things which define a civ, apart from the artwork:

1. Which UU they have

2. Which two techs they start with

3. Which traits the leader(s) have

The first two are found in Assets\XML\Civilizations\CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml and the third in CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml in the same folder. Instead of debating which 65 to have (of ~28,000 combinations), why not just make an applet which offers 5 drop-down boxes and you can have whichever ones you like?

If you mean to create new traits or UUs then I've misunderstood (sorry).

CC

 

[LAnkou]

don't see the celts? Is that a joke?

you agree to include switzerland and not belgium? (there are definitely a lot of jokes in this thread). Belgium is much more important in Europe politics than switzerland (since a long time ago)

what about:
Maoris
touaregs
Navajos
Armenia
Khurdes
Kazhaks

apart from that, i don't want to make personnal attack and i apologizes if it sounds like this, but all the quotes like "where are they coming from", "never heard off" looks more like a lack of culture than anything else...all civ proposed were very decent ones and no one were unknown culture as far as i remember.

 

[Red Door]

don't see the celts? Is that a joke?

you agree to include switzerland and not belgium? (there are definitely a lot of jokes in this thread). Belgium is much more important in Europe politics than switzerland (since a long time ago)

what about:
Maoris
touaregs
Navajos
Armenia
Khurdes
Kazhaks

apart from that, i don't want to make personnal attack and i apologizes if it sounds like this, but all the quotes like "where are they coming from", "never heard off" looks more like a lack of culture than anything else...all civ proposed were very decent ones and no one were unknown culture as far as i remember.

Yeah, I completely fortgot the Celts. They are definetly going to be in.
About Belgium and Switzerland, they're both in at this point. Other people want Belgium out.
Maoris-I like the idea, they'll probably go.
Touaregs-They could replace genric Berber civ.
Navajos-A good idea to fill Pacific West.
Armenia-I probably need one Caucasus civ.
Khurdes-There's an interseting idea, I'll consider it.
Kazhaks-I guess I'll have to include one of those civs from Central Asia.

On "I don't know," etc. Its just I'm not as well educated. Really, I should look them up in Wikipedia, but sometimes I don't have the time. And there are bad suggestions, like Albania.

Are you going to do extra art for this mod? As far as I can see, there are only three things which define a civ, apart from the artwork:

1. Which UU they have

2. Which two techs they start with

3. Which traits the leader(s) have

The first two are found in Assets\XML\Civilizations\CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml and the third in CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml in the same folder. Instead of debating which 65 to have (of ~28,000 combinations), why not just make an applet which offers 5 drop-down boxes and you can have whichever ones you like?

If you mean to create new traits or UUs then I've misunderstood (sorry).

CC

Yes, of course I'll do extra art for this mod.
1.UUs, at this point will probably be reskinned of some other unit.
2.Techs will be given out appropriettaly
3.Traits will be given out appropriattely.
Thank you for that information!

Scythian I dont think they would fit in.. because most of the countries we have in this are Modern day countries and not really ethnic groups ancient countries

..but i did a lot of reading on them lately so i'll write about them


Scythia used to an ancient Civilization that controlled Basically Russia between 900BC and 300BC (so 6 Centuries).. They traded a lot of goods with the greeks, and were pretty wealthy, and were very nomadic horseman etc.. and animist... .. were famous in greece for their woman warrior.. greeks started talking about amazon woman. basically think of Conan the barbarian and the characters in that movie.

they were of Iranian decent.. If i had to place their capital it would go between the Black sea and the Caspian sea... kind of where chechyna/Armenia/azerbaijan is today

After 4BC a tribe within Scythia become dominant Sarmatia..

the mongols started to push the Sarmatians West into europe.. causing the Sarmatians to really clash with the Romans.. which eventually helped end the Roman empire..

Sarmatians are prolly slavs today
Thats the description.i

I actually think they could fit in if I don't include Armenia.

I vote yes on Finland. They should not be considered Scandinavian. Sweden, Denmark and Norway are all covered by the Vikings, while Finland is not. I would recommend also including Sweden.

Thank you for the support. On Sweden, you're right, they don't fit under Vikings, maybe they should be by themselves.

 

[Red Door]

Updated Post #1

 

[Gav]

The Turks, no way, considering WW1 was the transition from the Ottoman Empire to Turkey, and the name Turkey originated from the Allies calling the Ottomans Turkeys or Turks because of the red hats they wore into battle.

wow. thats just about the dumbest thing i've ever heard. are you from Iowa?

 

[Gav]

This is a far out idea but how about African-Americans? So far I thinks they are the most advance of all african cultures.

wow. good going buddy. a repressed minority in a country, that ahve never had any kind of control over their land, they are clearly more advanced than the egyptians or malians or ghanans, and obviously miles ahead of the bantu culture. they've obviously been involved in as many historical events as the cathaginians and the zulus right? and im sure they'll be delighted to hear that they've been evicted from america, they dont belong anymore.

argh the sarcasm is hurting my head

 

[Red Door]

What you just said is pretty racist.

Anyway bact to the civs, I forgot to add some so Post #1 is being updated again.

 

[Red Door]

I just wanted to show you guys the changes:
Anyway,
First Change:Turks replaced with Austrians
Second Change:Took out Soviet Union(will replace one leader with Soviet)
Third Change:Quebec gone,Macedonia gone, Gauls gone, Abyssinia gone,Mexico In, Turks back In.
Fourth Change:Holy Roman Empire gone, Assyria gone, Bulgaria In
Fifth Change:Sweden In, Armenia/Scythia(Need to Decide) In, Celts In, Madagascar gone, Maori In, Touaregs replace generic Berbers,Navajo In, Switzerland Gone, Kazhaks In, Tupis Gone.
Sixth Change:Khmer In, Huns Gone, Tibet In, Ukirane gone, South Africa combined with Zululand,Songhai In, Babylon combined with Sumeria

 

[Gav]

What you just said is pretty racist.

what?

civs not in Civ4 that should be included:

Huns
Celts
Carib / Arawak
Zulu
Ethiopia
Venezia
Phoenicia / Carthage
Mughal
Bantu (would cover lots of west africans)
Indonesia (is it in the top 10 largest country in the world or something? its certainly the largest muslim state)
i cant remember if korea are in the vanilla game
Britons as distinct from anglo-saxons
hungary
austria
poland
iroquis
apache
inuit.

obviously some are more pressing than others.

 

[Red Door]

what?

civs not in Civ4 that should be included:

Huns
Celts
Carib / Arawak
Zulu
Ethiopia
Venezia
Phoenicia / Carthage
Mughal
Bantu (would cover lots of west africans)
Indonesia (is it in the top 10 largest country in the world or something? its certainly the largest muslim state)
i cant remember if korea are in the vanilla game
Britons as distinct from anglo-saxons
hungary
austria
poland
iroquis
apache
inuit.

obviously some are more pressing than others.

Huns-same as Mongols pretty much. They can be represented by them.
Celts-They're in.
Carib/Arawak-They're in.
Zulu-Combined with South Africa
Ethiopia-They're in.
Venezia-Not In, I could see them being in though.
Carthrage/Phonecia-Carthrage is in.
Mughal-Will be represented with leader in Pakistan or India
Bantu-Good Idea!, but West Africa is crowded with Mali and Songhai
Indonesia-hmm? I cant see them being in the game.
Korea-not in Vanilla, but they're in!
Britons-England is in.
Hungary-I have seriously considered putting them in.
Austria-They're in!
Poland-They're in!
Iroqouis-They're in!
Apache-Navajo is in but Apache isn't.
Inuit-They're in.

 

[Pbhead]

Where are the Byzantines!? I REFUSE to allow any one to make a mod with the many civs with out them!

They were one of true "Empires" at its peak it was almost as big as the Roman empire, it lasted over a 1000 years(how many other empires can say that? hmmm!) The greek "empire" hardly lasted 10 years...

I will allways kick my self for not help defending it in 1453...

P.S. The Hagie sofia wonder movie is a joke right? It shows the muslem additions being added at the same time the dome is going up! THE OTTOMENS ADDED THAT 800 YEARS AFTER IT WAS COMPLEATED!


sorry, I will calm down now.

 

[Gav]

Huns-same as Mongols pretty much.
Mughal-Will be represented with leader in Pakistan or India
Bantu-Good Idea!, but West Africa is crowded with Mali and Songhai
Indonesia-hmm? I cant see them being in the game.
Britons-England is in.
Hungary-I have seriously considered putting them in.

The huns were different from the mongols. the mongols were just a kingdom commanded by the ghengis khan, that came and went pretty quickly. hungary is based upon the slavicisation of the Magyar people, who were related to the Huns. thats why i think either the magyars or the huns should be in. for both to be out is to cut out a big vhunk of europe.

i dont think pakistan should be in, as there are so many more influential central asian muslim cultures in history. the mughals are significantly different from the indians, and as such i would choose them to represent central asia's muslims.

britons were just a tribe of celts, forget i mentioned them, scandanavians / normans would be a better inclusion.

 

[Gav]

Where are the Byzantines!? I REFUSE to allow any one to make a mod with the many civs with out them!

They were one of true "Empires" at its peak it was almost as big as the Roman empire, it lasted over a 1000 years(how many other empires can say that? hmmm!) The greek "empire" hardly lasted 10 years...

I will allways kick my self for not help defending it in 1453...

P.S. The Hagie sofia wonder movie is a joke right? It shows the muslem additions being added at the same time the dome is going up! THE OTTOMENS ADDED THAT 800 YEARS AFTER IT WAS COMPLEATED!


sorry, I will calm down now.

its hard to include them because they were more of a kingdom than a civilisation. they are no more than an emperor ruling over greeks and romans. perhaps they should have a leader of rome. after all, it was still the roman empire, just based in byzantium. it was historians who named them byzantines.