The AI cheats! (Possible spoiler alert)

This thread is awsome :lol:

One more question.. If your going to save and reload to pop a scout instead of gold.. well.. that just doesn't make any sense at all, why not do it till you get 100+gold or a free tech? I mean you could even go into world builder delete the huts and then just assign the tech you really want and it wouldn't be cheating cause it's really just saving you the time of reloading.. which isnt cheating becausel.. well the computer cheats so it's fair..

I'd take a tech over a scout.. if the free units/techs bother you so much why not just go into world builder and remove them lol You could add up the production and research bonus's and then just give yourself that much in free units/techs to make it.. "fair"?

I'm a genius!
 
yeah, we can expect that kind of AI strategy and fore-thinking in future episodes of civ. I wouldn't count on it being implemented as well as we'd like in Civ5. Maybe by the time Civ6 (praying they keep makin' em) rolls around, the AI will be at a level in which they don't require bonuses to be competitive. Skynet, baby! A storm's coming.

Civ 6? Uh oh.

By then we will be able to fully zoom from space all the way down to ground level, and rotate everything in three dimensions. And technology such as "the wheel" will seem like an advanced piece of future tech. We will start out with respiration, walking upright, and the ability to reproduce. Wait, shouldn't we build up to "walking upright?" I'm sure we can have scientists research this technology.

Techs you will have to research in Civ 6: Single cell fertilization, mammalian glands, and spinal fluid. You don't start with those.

Ultimate starting tech: Rna synthesis. :lol:

Edit: @Dutchking
Better than the old battleship versus phalanx, though, right? Or using mounted knights to defeat helicopters.

lol
 
You should try playing with Aggressive AI to really test yourself too ;) I do and it's way more challanging when the AI actually declares war and "then" demands things heh
 
Civ 6? Uh oh.

By then we will be able to fully zoom from space all the way down to ground level, and rotate everything in three dimensions. And technology such as "the wheel" will seem like an advanced piece of future tech. We will start out with respiration, walking upright, and the ability to reproduce. Wait, shouldn't we build up to "walking upright?" I'm sure we can have scientists research this technology.

Techs you will have to research in Civ 6: Single cell fertilization, mammalian glands, and spinal fluid. You don't start with those.

Ultimate starting tech: Rna synthesis. :lol:

Edit: @Dutchking
Better than the old battleship versus phalanx, though, right? Or using mounted knights to defeat helicopters.

lol

I actually really enjoyed the older civ in which you could build under water and in space, that was awsome. I wish they would find a way to bring it into the next version, with current technology they could make it waaaaay coooool. :D
 
on-topic part: altho the AI does get production bonuses at the higher levels, their cost in hammers for world wonders is identical to the human at every level (i'm not sure about national wonders). that's just FYI since some people assume the opposite.

the only way i can keep up with deity is to play OCC. one of their huge advantages is in the land-grab stage, with their extra settler and their bonuses. this eliminates that part of their advantage because i don't have to even try to keep up in the land-grab, and my one super city gets terrific advantages. works for me sometimes (i lose more often than i win), but the disclaimer is that i love OCC and have a lot of experience with it, mileage will vary by player. also i do not have BtS yet and haven't had to pick/choose/prioritize NWs, therefore i've played under the rules where you can build them all. just might be food for thought, and the games are quick with just one city to check/micromanage.

and now the light-hearted parts since i like to giggle:

"well known player" in the forums means "a member with many posts". Many posts don't make you a good player.

just look at me for proof of that! i'm amazed when i look at my post count, doesn't seem to me like i post that often. and a couple people sometimes mention me by name in their sigs! which makes me giggle like crazy. my avatar title is "Permanoob" not "Expert" or "Celebrity" for a reason of course ;)!

I am correct though in saying my wife ridicules my spelling. But then again she doesn't complain when I play BTS for several hours before I take the trash out, so I can live with it.

sounds like your marriage and mine have great things in common! i proofread hubby's papers when he was in college. he is very intelligent but his english teachers apparently had some weird ideas about comma usage! i'd never heard of Civ or Sid Meier until i met him, so he completely understands "one more turn" syndrome which is great for my free time! but please don't ask how messy our house is. "i will never trade that information with you my worst enemies]" *gigglefest*

Maybe by the time Civ6 (praying they keep makin' em) rolls around

aim higher! Civ2050 baybee.

to askthepizzaguy: your sig has too much truth in it, i love it!
 


PLS TO BE MAKING LESS OF TEH BIG PICTURS PLS!!!!!!11eleven!



Seriously, not only does that screw up your post for people, it makes many other posts essentially unreadable as well. While I will admit that some of the posts in this thread are not worth reading, there still are a few gems even here.
 
I dont get the big blank space..
 
PLS TO BE MAKING LESS OF TEH BIG PICTURS PLS!!!!!!11eleven!

Seriously, not only does that screw up your post for people, it makes many other posts essentially unreadable as well. While I will admit that some of the posts in this thread are not worth reading, there still are a few gems even here.

For me, the pictures don't even display, and it takes up about 50 screens in length of useless blank space.

PLS!!!!!11eleven! Is classic. I'm aware it's common but I lawled when I first saw it.
 
The current difficulty level mechanic essentially is a Firaxis acknowledgement that it can't program a progressively smarter AI, but only give the AI in-game advantages to make it harder on the player. This isn't cheating -- it's expressly stated in the manual, after all. It's an approximation used to create the illusion of a smarter opponent, but it's really just stacking the deck and not making the computer a better card player, as it were.

For now, multiplayer is the only place where everything is "fair" and you are matching wits with a free-thinking opponent.
 
hey guys, I have been playing this game for a while and got a lot of good advice from all of you, thanks! with all these advice I got and with my own esperiences (in civ and strategy games in general), I've decided to try out the deity mode, and got clobbered by the AI. So I've decided to turn off the fog of war and see what's going on and found out that in deity AI gets a lot of bonuses! Since I haven't seen many treads focusing on this, is this common knowledge? Can anyone point me to where I can find the exact bonus the AIs get in different difficulties? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I think that's a less arrogant-sounding approach than "omg i can't believe my near flawless strategy doesn't work on deity, because AI cheats! my strategy is near flawless so it should win if the AI would just not cheat!"

Like others have said, your writing style makes a wrong impression. I participated in one of your other threads and to tell you the truth, at first i was a bit put off by what you wrote, but I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you just joined the forum and probably haven't had time to read thru all the posts. True you asked for help and advices, but the way you asked didn't really seem like you are asking. IIRC, You were mentioning something about how your strategy is kicking ass and it's awesome, and you think it's the best strategy and wants to know if there are ways to improve, and when someone pointed out that there's pros and cons of expanding too much too early, you get all defensive and wrote stuff about how everyone plays different style, instead of discussing ways you can help coping with the high maintence, and how more cities can be better than less cities. oh, and i remembered that thread so well precisely because your tone strike me as being arrogant.

With that said, I think you also have to fogive a lot of us (i am not "well-know" but I've been reading stuffs here since civ3), who are on this forum for a while and learned many small details of the game already. Sometimes we see people posting about these wonderful things that we all know, and we get a bit impatient (come on guys, we do). Most of the time we are well-behaved, but sometimes the veterans may sound like arrogant jerks ourselves, and if that happens, please forgive us. Just like us forgiving the newcomers for not reading up the old posts or the condensed tips or do some forum searches.
 
Dutchking,

My freggin infantry attacks a longbowman, the chances of winning are 95 %, I loose, WTH is that?

It's an event with a 5% chance of occurring, that's what.
 
^^^ Yeah, 95% isn't high enough for me to expect victory (like a 99%+ would). I'd say there's a good chance you send units into battle 500 times in a marathon game. Maybe more. So if you always had a 95% chance of winning, you should lose 25 times (theoretically).
 
Spoiler :
hey guys, I have been playing this game for a while and got a lot of good advice from all of you, thanks! with all these advice I got and with my own esperiences (in civ and strategy games in general), I've decided to try out the deity mode, and got clobbered by the AI. So I've decided to turn off the fog of war and see what's going on and found out that in deity AI gets a lot of bonuses! Since I haven't seen many treads focusing on this, is this common knowledge? Can anyone point me to where I can find the exact bonus the AIs get in different difficulties? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I think that's a less arrogant-sounding approach than "omg i can't believe my near flawless strategy doesn't work on deity, because AI cheats! my strategy is near flawless so it should win if the AI would just not cheat!"

Like others have said, your writing style makes a wrong impression. I participated in one of your other threads and to tell you the truth, at first i was a bit put off by what you wrote, but I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you just joined the forum and probably haven't had time to read thru all the posts. True you asked for help and advices, but the way you asked didn't really seem like you are asking. IIRC, You were mentioning something about how your strategy is kicking ass and it's awesome, and you think it's the best strategy and wants to know if there are ways to improve, and when someone pointed out that there's pros and cons of expanding too much too early, you get all defensive and wrote stuff about how everyone plays different style, instead of discussing ways you can help coping with the high maintence, and how more cities can be better than less cities. oh, and i remembered that thread so well precisely because your tone strike me as being arrogant.

With that said, I think you also have to fogive a lot of us (i am not "well-know" but I've been reading stuffs here since civ3), who are on this forum for a while and learned many small details of the game already. Sometimes we see people posting about these wonderful things that we all know, and we get a bit impatient (come on guys, we do). Most of the time we are well-behaved, but sometimes the veterans may sound like arrogant jerks ourselves, and if that happens, please forgive us. Just like us forgiving the newcomers for not reading up the old posts or the condensed tips or do some forum searches.

I appreciate the constructive criticism.

Some points: If what I said is paraphrased or reworded to make it sound more arrogant, then perhaps the arrogance is more of a misinterpretation than something I had actually written.

You may have also misinterpreted what I said about near-perfect play. It is indeed a factual thing, there is a limit to what you can do every turn. You can only recruit so many units, accumulate so much research, and explore so much territory. It's not an example of arrogance to point out that there are limitations to how much a person can accomplish no matter how well they do. At early stages of the game, those flaws are easy to recognize and counter, but in later stages the game inevitably falls apart because we're human beings and we can't play perfectly.

However, for the first several turns, it is indeed possible to play flawlessly, in such a way that it is impossible to improve upon. Nearly flawless is even more attainable. Especially when you only have one city to be concerned with. Employing the slavery civic, utilizing your resources effectively, gaining the right techs, and exploring productively and so forth. Once all this has been accomplished, and you're still behind considerably, it's not a mistake to call the play near-perfect, nor is it an example of arrogance or bragging. When compared to what the AI can do in their first few turns, it's clear that one is playing near peak efficiency while the other must break the rules to do so. Forgiving my one trespass on casual games (gaining a scout) I do play by the rules and was unaware the computer had a different rulebook. It was common knowledge on this forum, and it's my mistake for not asking about it first.

However, much of the hostility was unneccessary, and it was directed at misinterpretations and incorrect assumptions about what I had actually said. So they aren't valid criticisms in my view. Paraphrasing and adjusting what a man says and then attacking that is a straw man argument.

I also reserve the right to disagree, respectfully, with certain suggestions. I never said one strategy was better than the other. Leaving it simply as "well, we have different playing styles, but I thank you for the advice" is not arrogant at all. It is arrogant to suggest so.

My primary criticism is that I am not being held to the same standards that others hold themselves to. Most, if not all the non-constructive criticisms leveled against me here involved a heavy dose of hypocrisy. If I were the only one in err, throwing stones might be acceptable. But I am not the only guilty one.

While I disagree with your assessment, you did have the courtesy to respond with civility, which is a luxury I was not offered in many of those cases. That, more than the criticism itself, is my biggest complaint.

You did not see me retaliate with ad hominem attacks, only that I pointed out the inconsistency of their arguments. Again, I apologize if I come off as arrogant, it's not my intention especially since I post so often thanks and praise for advice given that I asked for.

I feel the label of arrogant and troll is undeserved in my case, and more justly deserved for my less polite critics. Your argument, while not one I agree with, is at least offered with dignity. That's all I ask for.

Post Script: If you believe you've found a case of my actual words (not a paraphrase) being arrogant, I'll accept the criticism in private message. This thread's been clogged up enough with that, as it's a bit off-topic.

I may not agree with the evaluation, or I might. But if you feel like holding my feet to the fire with my own words, I'd be happy to offer a defense or accept the guilty charge.
 
@thepizzaguy:
thats exactly what the pictures are. annoying, huh?

And I lawled too btw.

@KmadCandy: (from AoK): "You're My Hero!"
Seriously, you're c00l! *giggle*
 
So if the AI cheats, and the player "cheats" (gets bonuses) anyone made a mod without either of them? Is it mostly in the HandicapInfo.xml file? Sure, the AI wouldn't be a challenge, but I think it would appeal to peoples sense of "fairness".
 
Actually, the AI does get reduced building/unit cost on the higher levels. The reduction progresses over time and is quite significant. Just run enough espionage and see it for yourself.
 
As was mentioned elsewhere, the AI can only see a snapshot of the current turn, and must play based on that. There are a few exception to this, such as the attempting_cultural_victory flag and the preparing_for_war_with_player_Y flag.

Imagine this.
We start a game of Civ on the forums. One member on the forums starts the game and plays the first turn. Then they e-mail it another forum member. That member then takes the next turn and passes the game on to another member. All forum members must have at least one hundred turns pass before they can take a second turn. No discussion of this game is allowed to take place. The only information you can tell the next player is who you're preparing to go to war with within the next few (let's say 20) turns, and if you're attempting a cultural victory.

Imagine how hard it would be to make a good decision in this situation. Now imagine having to code the AI to be able to work in this situation.
 
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