The American-Pakistani Relationship: Where Is It Going?
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warpus
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Find me a photo of Kabul today or 10 years ago that looks like anything like I posted.
You won't find it. All the women now have their faces covered up. There are no stores selling western records, people don't wear western clothing, there are no national infrastructure projects, no advanced medical labs..
The country was doing alright in the 50s and 60s
kochman
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It wasn't doing "alright" in the 50s/60s... it was still a dump.
It was certainly not as dominated by people who would spray acid on a females face if she exposed it back then, but the poverty, illiteracy, etc were just as rampant then as they are now.
A dump.
Love it.
While Afghanistan was certainly not anywhere pleasant in the 50s-60s (a lot of those pictures are basically Soviet/American propaganda as both were putting a lot of effort into building up the country at the time), it was at least headed in the right direction. It might not prove Afghanistan wasn't a "dump" but it does prove it has more potential than to be one, which seems to be the opposite of what you are implying, unless I am wrong.
It means a great deal more than a completely unsupported claim that Afghanistan was a [dung]hole at the time, though.
kochman
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Do you really think that 1 photo does mean a "great deal" more?
Do you really need sources to know that Afghanistan sucked at the time?
Kabul was a nice city and in many ways would fit in reasonably well with 1950s America
Looks nice enough to me
kochman
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The country didn't even have a highway (by which I simply mean a paved road connecting the country, not an elaborate autobahn or US interstate system) at all until the Russians built the ring road... running water? Good luck... 'lectricity... good luck... etc, etc, etc.
Almost no infrastructure.
That wouldn't fit in that well.
Afghanistan was an industrializing country of course it wasn't perfect, but it was improving and if it kept going on that path for another 50 years it probably be around a first world country.
In comparison to the US? Of course it did.
In comparison to other developing countries? I don't know where it stood, but it was far better off then than now relative to other developing nations.
kochman
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I suppose we could speculate on where it COULD be today all day, but cherry picking a handful of the nicest photos from the time doesn't prove a point.
I could find you such pictures from all sorts of nations from the 50s that didn't make the leap to 1st world, as you claim Afghanistan would "probably" be...
Here is a very interesting article about the economic history...
https://www.cimicweb.org/Documents/...eport - The Afghan Economy - October 2010.pdf
It shows that in no way was Afghanistan going to be 1st world before the USSR invaded... the USSR invaded because it was crumbling on its own.
I could find you such pictures from all sorts of nations from the 50s that didn't make the leap to 1st world, as you claim Afghanistan would "probably" be...
Here is a very interesting article about the economic history...
https://www.cimicweb.org/Documents/...eport - The Afghan Economy - October 2010.pdf
It shows that in no way was Afghanistan going to be 1st world before the USSR invaded... the USSR invaded because it was crumbling on its own.
Neonanocyborgasm
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Pakistan can't really be called an ally of the US. Neither can it be called an enemy. Pakistan just doesn't have the incentive to pursue the Taliban/Al-Qaeda within its borders as aggressively as the US would like, as it doesn't see it as threatening enough to warrant as much attention. The US has lately pursued a more pragmatic policy where, knowing it will never have enough support from Pakistan, it just does whatever it wants within its borders, knowing Pakistan can't do squat to stop us. In fact, this has made Pakistan fear the US more than the Taliban! There's no incentive to be openly hostile to Pakistan, as there's no sense in making Pakistan an enemy.
The Pakistani government is also rather dysfunctional. The military is almost a state within a state, which is itself riddled with corruption. Each element within the state pursues its own interests, largely independent of each other. The Prime Minister has little actual power over the military, and probably doesn't care, as he's enriching himself anyway through the office.
This game will probably continue for the foreseeable future, but the good news is that it ultimately favors America. Since Pakistan is too feeble to stop us, we can, and have largely proven to be able to operate with great impunity within Pakistan.
The Pakistani government is also rather dysfunctional. The military is almost a state within a state, which is itself riddled with corruption. Each element within the state pursues its own interests, largely independent of each other. The Prime Minister has little actual power over the military, and probably doesn't care, as he's enriching himself anyway through the office.
This game will probably continue for the foreseeable future, but the good news is that it ultimately favors America. Since Pakistan is too feeble to stop us, we can, and have largely proven to be able to operate with great impunity within Pakistan.
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