spleen1015
Regent
I agree with both FriendlyFire and Berrern.
The Conquest Training Game
- Thread starter ainwood
- Start date
Detlef Richter
The Pikeman
OK, sounds good!
spleen1015
Regent
I'm questioning the importance of building the Barracks early. Maybe we should wait until we have a few cities in place and see what we have.
Thanks, scoutsout!
Thanks, scoutsout!
spleen1015 said:
It's too early to decide what role our capitol should have, some exploration is needed first.
We DO need a unit factory though, and if it'll take too much effort to get irrigation to Beijing, I reckon it's a good idea to use our capitol for this purpose. We'll just have to wait and see
[/lurk]ainwood said:
Sorry if I'm spoiling your deliberate mistake to provoke your students
I think you're double counting the bonus. You grow to 5 and get the bonus because the fifth citizen delivers shields and gold between turns, so you can say you have four citizens plus the bonus, or you can say you have five citizens. You can't have both. So I think your shield count after turn 2 is 14, not 16. But the four turn settler farm still works OK. The new game you found when you moved the worker means you can run it from pop 4 to pop 6 and you only need fresh water for irrigation, not to support pop 7.
[lurk]
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- Oct 5, 2001
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You're very generous, Alan 
I should take more care...
I was referring to the situation at the end of each turn, but might not have been consistent. The important bit is that we can generate a surplus of 5 food. We will get two bonus shields each time we grow, so get four in all. Plus, we have enough shield production at 4 to 6 to build a settler (in fact, we waste a few).
The key thing is to be able to adapt your strategy as the game changes and you get more information.
So: Are we ready?
I think that we have agreed that we will:
1.) Found on the spot.
2.) Set production to warrior (3 turns).
3.) Go to domestic advisor and set tax rate to 100%
4.) Go to science advisor and set research to pottery.
One small point I'd like to mention:
We have said that we will road the forest/game square. However, this is not necessarily a good move. We will be chopping the forest to grassland for a settler factory (hopefully), and yet it takes more turns to road a forest than to road grassland. Why not chop it first, then road it?
Downside is that we have nothing to use the shields for at the moment. Why not move the worker?
Do people want to found the city then discuss this?
I should take more care...I was referring to the situation at the end of each turn, but might not have been consistent. The important bit is that we can generate a surplus of 5 food. We will get two bonus shields each time we grow, so get four in all. Plus, we have enough shield production at 4 to 6 to build a settler (in fact, we waste a few).
Its certainly something that we need more information about before we decide one way or the other. We need to know how much room we have, whether we have water, are there any AIs near us etc etc.spleen1015 said:
The key thing is to be able to adapt your strategy as the game changes and you get more information.
So: Are we ready?
I think that we have agreed that we will:
1.) Found on the spot.
2.) Set production to warrior (3 turns).
3.) Go to domestic advisor and set tax rate to 100%
4.) Go to science advisor and set research to pottery.
One small point I'd like to mention:
We have said that we will road the forest/game square. However, this is not necessarily a good move. We will be chopping the forest to grassland for a settler factory (hopefully), and yet it takes more turns to road a forest than to road grassland. Why not chop it first, then road it?
Downside is that we have nothing to use the shields for at the moment. Why not move the worker?
Do people want to found the city then discuss this?
FriendlyFire
Codex WMDicanious
lol moving the worker around without building roads ALSO waste turns too. (1 worker Turn wasted from movement) (1 Warrior turn wasted on movement planned to explore North)
And besides Iam betting that we will be expanding North-ward.
In Order for the Settler factory to work well need min 2 lux road, and 3 garrsioned units. That means selecting prority for roading and settleing lux. Iam place the HIGHEST priorty in cutting of AI expansion and settling the MAXIUM amount of land.
(I want to secure as many resources at the same time DENY the AI.)
What do you suggest ?
EDIT: Like many have said our gameplay will be dictated by the terrain we uncover.
I want to see what others Do in regards to Priortising exploration, worker and city placement. (Especially you Gotm Vets)
Mauer
Pompous Noble
I tend to agree here. IMHO I am not so sure that a couple of turns for worker actions is that big a deal. I don't consider myself an emperor level player, so I could be wrong. Thoughts anybody?
What's the worker turn cost of the different options to get a road on the tile you're standing on, assuming there is going to be a road there at some time? Do the sums!
Road where you stand = (3 x 2 for forest / 2 for industrious) = 3 turns. Coming back later to chop forest will then cost no turns.
Move to somewhere else, return later to chop and road = 1 movement turn + 2 road turns after chopping = 3 turns.
Road where you stand = (3 x 2 for forest / 2 for industrious) = 3 turns. Coming back later to chop forest will then cost no turns.
Move to somewhere else, return later to chop and road = 1 movement turn + 2 road turns after chopping = 3 turns.
spleen1015
Regent
How many turns would we wait before we came back? We'd miss a commerce for each one of those turns.
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Well, that got some more discussion! Thanks to alan for the analysis.
For an industrious civ, it takes 8 turns to road then cut a forest square, and 6.5 turns to cut it then road it (its rounds up to seven if you only have one worker on the tile). If we were a non-industrious civ, then it becomes a lot more important: you save 3 turns.
The point I'm trying to demonstrate (although this isn't a very good example), is that you need to consider the order that you do things with workers. Not only should you consider the number of turns that doing things in different orders will take, you also need to consider (as a coupld of you have pointed out) the 'net value' of certain actions - the overall effect on commerce, food, shields and movement. You also need to consider the order that you will improve tiles in: Don't spend lots of time jumping across rivers, moving to work tiles 3 moves away just to come back and do the adjacent tile after it.
So: Shall we start?
First-in can play the game for the first few turns. Get the city founded, and the worker working. Note that when the worker finishes the road, make sure to go to the city and change the production to ensure that the roaded square is being worked. I think we've agreed that the first two things built will be warriors, so when the first one is finished, start the second.
I think that once the first warrior is finished and leaves the city boundary (about 5 turns), we will have a bit better idea of the nearby terrain, and so play should stop, the map be posted and we can continue the discussions.
Are we all agreed that the first exploration should be north?
spleen1015
Regent
I got it. How many turns should I play? 10? 15?
akots
Poet
/lurk/ We need a smiley for lurk...
Very interesting discussion indeed. Looks like ISDG polemics atm.
There is another approach:
Let the AIs build as many cities as they can. This way you save on settlers and workers and would have only to capture these cities and their population. Sometimes more efficient than early REXing.
/delurk/ We need a smiley for delurk...
Very interesting discussion indeed. Looks like ISDG polemics atm.
FriendlyFire said:
There is another approach:
Let the AIs build as many cities as they can. This way you save on settlers and workers and would have only to capture these cities and their population. Sometimes more efficient than early REXing.
/delurk/ We need a smiley for delurk...
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Play until the first warrior leaves the city boundaries (say about 5 turns). The next discussions should be a quikc confirmation though.spleen1015 said:
@Akots: we need to know the 'lay of the land' before we decide things like this. For all we know, we have plenty of room!
spleen1015
Regent
I played the first 6 turns. I went ahead and got the first Warrior to the hill.
THE SAVE
My turn log:
[1] 4000BC
Beijing founded. Production set to Warrior (4 turns).
Research set to 100%. Pottery in 20 turns.
[2] 3950BC
Worker set to road.
[3] 3900BC
ZZZ
[4] 3850BC
ZZZ
[5] 3800BC
Beijing builds Warrior. Set to Warrior (4 turns).
Worker completes road.
Warrior moves N, then NE.
Worker moves SW to Game.
[6] 3750BC
Worker roads.
Warrior NE. Sees goody hut to N.
THE SAVE
My turn log:
[1] 4000BC
Beijing founded. Production set to Warrior (4 turns).
Research set to 100%. Pottery in 20 turns.
[2] 3950BC
Worker set to road.
[3] 3900BC
ZZZ
[4] 3850BC
ZZZ
[5] 3800BC
Beijing builds Warrior. Set to Warrior (4 turns).
Worker completes road.
Warrior moves N, then NE.
Worker moves SW to Game.
[6] 3750BC
Worker roads.
Warrior NE. Sees goody hut to N.
Mauer
Pompous Noble
Well, I guess I am going to have to watch 
. I downloaded the sav, but can't find my stinking disk 
. got ptw and c3c though. Oh, well.
I think you would have revealed more map if you had moved N 2 squares. Looks like a nice piece of map though for a wet world. No jungles yet, but no river too close either (or close lux).
Let's see we have masonry right. Maybe after the 2nd warrior, prebuild pyramid for granary?
Too bad not expanionest either, maybe a second city there.
. I downloaded the sav, but can't find my stinking disk . got ptw and c3c though. Oh, well.I think you would have revealed more map if you had moved N 2 squares. Looks like a nice piece of map though for a wet world. No jungles yet, but no river too close either (or close lux).
Let's see we have masonry right. Maybe after the 2nd warrior, prebuild pyramid for granary?
Too bad not expanionest either, maybe a second city there.
FriendlyFire
Codex WMDicanious
Anyone know the Odds of Barbarians vs Usefull stuff ???
(Would be nice If we hit the jackpot with a free CITY)
I think we should pop the hut. Unless you want to play safe and wait till we get a Phalanx. But Iam that kinda player that takes calculated gambles.
Pros:
Any Positive would be a Major boost if found early in the game. Tech, Unit, Map, Money will help us more NOW, rather then later if we wait for a phalanx. Our Warrior is moving into Forest +50% Def +50% Def vs Barb gives us resonable odds in combat.
If we leave the Hut for later another civi (Slim Odds) might Pop it.
Cons:
Losing the Warrior will be a Major Blow this early on. Not to mention if the make for our city we'll lose more (worker turn loss, Pillage roads).
----------------------------------
Terrain
Look like were located on the SE end of the contenant. Do a Circular type of exploration. N then W then S. That hill looks odd. generally Hills and Mountains are formed in groups / Clusters much like Forest.
Fact that our starting city is located Right at the corner isnt too worrying just means theres at least two other civis on a mid sized land mass. Good thing we havent hit Jungle yet. On a wet world Jungle would mean a HUGE sprall and lots of effet to make it productive.
(Would be nice If we hit the jackpot with a free CITY)
I think we should pop the hut. Unless you want to play safe and wait till we get a Phalanx. But Iam that kinda player that takes calculated gambles.
Pros:
Any Positive would be a Major boost if found early in the game. Tech, Unit, Map, Money will help us more NOW, rather then later if we wait for a phalanx. Our Warrior is moving into Forest +50% Def +50% Def vs Barb gives us resonable odds in combat.
If we leave the Hut for later another civi (Slim Odds) might Pop it.
Cons:
Losing the Warrior will be a Major Blow this early on. Not to mention if the make for our city we'll lose more (worker turn loss, Pillage roads).
----------------------------------
Terrain
Look like were located on the SE end of the contenant. Do a Circular type of exploration. N then W then S. That hill looks odd. generally Hills and Mountains are formed in groups / Clusters much like Forest.
Fact that our starting city is located Right at the corner isnt too worrying just means theres at least two other civis on a mid sized land mass. Good thing we havent hit Jungle yet. On a wet world Jungle would mean a HUGE sprall and lots of effet to make it productive.
