The Feeling of Nothing

Do you fear nothingness after death?


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By that logic a dozen average people should have been able to come up with Einstein's theory of relativity just as well as him :rolleyes:
Well if they linked their brains together via magic and then focused on the problem...

So you are saying the brain:body-mass 1:10 ratio is incomplete because brain is more than sum of parts and a larger brain is worth more than its weight in smaller brains. But the exterminator can still kill enough roaches to compensate.
 
Well if they linked their brains together via magic and then focused on the problem...

So you are saying the brain:body-mass 1:10 ratio is incomplete because brain is more than sum of parts and a larger brain is worth more than its weight in smaller brains. But the exterminator can still kill enough roaches to compensate.

Logic and brain power isn't a stackable concept.
 
But immoral actions are. Lots of small ones add up to equal a big one.

What is immoral about killing a specifically programmed insect that has no control whatsoever over its actions, has no mind to really think with, and doesn't even feel pain?
 
What is immoral about killing a specifically programmed insect that has no control whatsoever over its actions, has no mind to really think with, and doesn't even feel pain?
You don't know this. Anyway the this is just a joke example while the issue is about cows chickens and fish.
 
Programmed? By whom? Are you admitting to the existence of a superior entity?
 
Cockroaches aren't intelligent enough to be even nearly as aware of their surroundings and life and living itself as we humans are.
They are apparently aware enough to survive 350 million years on earth; pretty impressive even if they don't experience life as we do. Why should they experience life like we do? Is our experience superior? If you think so, how do you know that?

Wiki said:
Behavior

Cockroaches live in a wide range of environments around the world. Pest species of cockroaches adapt readily to a variety of environments, but prefer warm conditions found within buildings. Many tropical species prefer even warmer environments and do not fare well in the average household.

The spines on the legs were earlier considered to be sensory, but observations of their locomotion on sand and wire meshes have demonstrated that they help in locomotion on difficult terrain. The structures have been used as inspiration for robotic legs.

Cockroaches leave chemical trails in their feces as well as emitting airborne pheromones for swarming and mating. These chemical trails transmit bacteria on surfaces. Other cockroaches will follow these trails to discover sources of food and water, and also discover where other cockroaches are hiding. Thus, cockroaches can exhibit emergent behavior, in which group or swarm behavior emerges from a simple set of individual interactions.

Daily rhythms may also be regulated by a complex set of hormonal controls of which only a small subset have been understood. In 2005, the role of one of these proteins, Pigment Dispersing Factor (PDF), was isolated and found to be a key mediator in the circadian rhythms of the cockroach.

Research has shown that group-based decision-making is responsible for complex behavior such as resource allocation. In a study where 50 cockroaches were placed in a dish with three shelters with a capacity for 40 insects in each, the insects arranged themselves in two shelters with 25 insects in each, leaving the third shelter empty. When the capacity of the shelters was increased to more than 50 insects per shelter, all of the cockroaches arranged themselves in one shelter. Researchers found a balance between cooperation and competition exists in the group decision-making behavior found in cockroaches. The models used in this research can also explain the group dynamics of other insects and animals.

Cockroaches are mainly nocturnal and will run away when exposed to light. A peculiar exception is the Asian cockroach, which is attracted to light. Another study tested the hypothesis that cockroaches use just two pieces of information to decide where to go under those conditions: how dark it is and how many other cockroaches there are. The study conducted by José Halloy and colleagues at the Free University of Brussels and other European institutions created a set of tiny robots that appear to the roaches as other roaches and can thus alter the roaches' perception of critical mass. The robots were also specially scented so that they would be accepted by the real roaches.

Additionally, researchers at Tohoku University engaged in a classical conditioning experiment with cockroaches and discovered that the insects were able to associate the scent of vanilla and peppermint with a sugar treat.
 
Why should I care? My brain has decomposed, is likely food for the bacterium and worms. But I won't know it. I'm dead. With no consciousness, I can't exactly be upset about it.
 
"We have nothing to fear but fear itself."
While probably not in the context Mr. Roosevelt intended, basically the fear of us dying causes us more trouble, more harm, than the actual death itself. Why waste your life worrying? It's all you've got.
 
Why should I care? My brain has decomposed With no consciousness, I can't exactly be upset about it.

The loss of an eternity of happiness is a greater loss than all the loss you have felt in your life.
If death is defined as nonexistence and self is defined very specifically/concretely then the change on self imposed by time is death.

But this thread is about the fear of death as permanent loss of consciousness. Yes it scares me.
 
They are apparently aware enough to survive 350 million years on earth; pretty impressive even if they don't experience life as we do. Why should they experience life like we do? Is our experience superior? If you think so, how do you know that?

Most insects have good group working skills. It is how they survive. Small bands of cockroaches would not survive. Same goes to ants, termites, etc. Most of the time the skills aren't caused by their actions but rather their genetics. They are born to be good at it because it is how they survive.
 
Most insects have good group working skills. It is how they survive. Small bands of cockroaches would not survive. Same goes to ants, termites, etc. Most of the time the skills aren't caused by their actions but rather their genetics. They are born to be good at it because it is how they survive.
So don't be bad mouthing success. ;)
 
They are apparently aware enough to survive 350 million years on earth; pretty impressive even if they don't experience life as we do. Why should they experience life like we do? Is our experience superior? If you think so, how do you know that?

You do not need to be aware to survive any amount of time, unless you want to claim sponges, bacteria, and viruses have awareness as well.

They don't need to experience life we do. It's just that the ability to have desires and feel pain is the prerequisite for a being's status as worthy of moral consideration.
 
You do not need to be aware to survive any amount of time, unless you want to claim sponges, bacteria, and viruses have awareness as well.

They don't need to experience life we do. It's just that the ability to have desires and feel pain is the prerequisite for a being's status as worthy of moral consideration.
And exactly where do you draw that line?
 
To avoid going there at the moment, I would say that people can reduce their attachments to people and things and not reduce the joy of living and be less prone to suffering, and they can do this by choice (ignoring any discussion about free will etc. ;) )
You did say you want to avoid going there, but I would contest this assertion in the general case; trying to limit attachment can limit the intensity of shared feelings.

"Research has shown that group-based decision-making is responsible for complex behavior such as resource allocation."
Group based decision making isn't the same as the type of perception that humans experience. Yes hive animals are "smarter" collectively than their individual brains suggest, but this is much like how two computers are collectively faster than one. Neither large colonies of insects nor large computer networks are worthy of moral consideration.
 
it's also nice to know that every atom of my body will last forever.

I have some potential bad news ... ;)

Try to see life this way then.

1) You pass on your genes to your children for them to continue
2) You pass on your knowledge and experience unto others

Either way elements of your consciousness continues.

:goodjob:
Although, to me, the coolest thing about the time after my death, is that almost everyone else's life goes on without disruption. The only qualities of mine that I'm deeply concerned that they share are the abilities to appreciate awesome experiences: like music or sunsets or the smell of Arbor vitae. And those are pretty much human universals.

I think you have it backward. Attachment is how we respond to love. We want to preserve it.

I would say that people can reduce their attachments to people and things and not reduce the joy of living and be less prone to suffering

This. Not that I have any idea how to rid myself of them[*], but attachments don't help me appreciate joys. They can only get in the way, as far as I can see.

*Short of becoming a monk, which would likely still fail, and I'm not ready to try.
 
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