The Future of NESing

[Erik Mesoy]

NESing has grown far beyond "Civ3 - Stories and Tales", the parent forum which it still resides in.

Indeed, it now bears little resemblance to Civ at all, due to Boring Times, sci-fi NESes, board game NESes (read: board games), magic NESes, RPG NESes (which ought to be called simply RPGs) and evolution-based NESes.

Requests to move the NES forum to Civ4 were made in Oct 05 and May 06. Both failed.

There has also been a recent spate of threads that have been locked, apparently for spam.

Since the NES community is now fairly segregated both from the forum as an outside and from Civ3, the correct thing to do seems to be moving the subforum as a whole to THE COLOSSEUM, next to All Other Games and Off Topic, both of which are far closer kin than "Civ3-Succession Games".

Alternatively, it could be moved to a completely different forum. Dozens of webhosts are willing to provide forum space as long as we view their ads; NESers would have the benefit of being able to spam more freely, local mods could mod their own NESes, CFC mods wouldn't have to remove spam from a forum that is inherently spammy and non-Civish, and Thunderfall would expend somewhat less bandwidth on this odd subculture.

The last point isn't as inconsequential as one might think. The NES forum has 250 000 posts, 5.6% of the CFC forums, second only to Off Topic in volume, and NESes regularly include huge pictures, such as update maps, leaders, attack plans, or depictions of national wonders, not to mention mechs. (Neo Nes.)

I furthermore opine that the current situation is intolerable. A pessimistic view as presented suggests why no option is truly profitable:

• The NES forum (properly Civ3 - NES) is moved to the Colosseum and renamed.
  Result: It is swamped by denizens of the neighboring OT and Games forums, these demand changes, the tone of the forum becomes alien to the new while the old hands become xenophobic, and everybody loses.​
• The NES forum stays where it is.
  Result: Spam, "an integral part of NESing" according to Lord_Iggy, continues to accumulate and get moderated. Threads are either closed without warning or become boring as NESers live with the fear of sudden closure above their heads, with nowhere to complain - 'you post here, you follow the forum rules'. Everybody again loses as NESing become ritualistic.​
• Some responsible NESer registers a new forum.
  Result: The forum becomes undiscoverable by outsiders, not all NESers are willing to move, those who move are lonely, those who don't have nothing to do, it's a flop and everybody loses for the last time.​

While I am aware that counterarguments exist to the above points (and have made them myself), I nevertheless believe that the status quo is unstable and will tend towards one or more of the above extremes over time.

(And to make it painfully clear: DISCUSS. I wish I didn't have to include this line, but I know that somebody would ask what the point of the thread was, if I had not specifically requested discussion on the NES forum's future.)

 

[andis-1]

If this thin ought to be moved, I would suggest Other games/ All other games section.

 

[Gelion]

Do you think if we made a global effort there will be less spam?

Overall I think you made a good analysis. I and possibly many other "old" NESers dont play anymore mostly because its too childrish. NES Wiki was the last drop in that respect with "look at our wonderful us". Seriously what the hell? I'm not a kid or a teen anymore. I'm an adult that wants to have some more serious game in my favourite forum. I can't imagine how motivated Sheep is with the diplo that happens in his new game "wonderful neighour give me tech because I need to defend myself"..... not that much for a person that loves geopolitics and strategy.... where will it end?

I dont see any other options than the three outlined. In case we open a new forum, I'd say.... have an age requirement.

 

[Swissempire]

I say we stay. We only prove the mods point that we think we're above the rules if we get made and leave when the begin to fully enforce them.

THe course of action shouldn't be a retreat, but a mediation. We should talk and set out what is acceptable and unacceptable with the Moderation and Administration Team. But both sides have to be willing to negotiate to set down acceptable guidelines with in the rules. No breaking the treaty after it is signed. No "sneak spam attacks" or "Moderation Barrages".

IMHO We should go with our claims, and then should come with theres and we should sit down at the table and "mediate with the Mods"

Topics could include:

"Is community building Spam?"

"When does an idea become Spam?"

"Is a thread person-specific if it includes a lot of people talking about a lot of people?"

"If a mod breaks the rules set out here, are we allowed to question that descision?"

etc. etc.
_______________________________________________________________
And then an off topic, not pertaining to this post question is: Is there currently a place on CFC where you can bring up your moderation grievances? Any issues you have with a mod or a decsision, like is there a thread or a sub forum to bring those up?

 

[Swissempire]

I dont see any other options than the three outlined. In case we open a new forum, I'd say.... have an age requirement.

Are you a ****** or just an ageist?

Age doesn't make any difference in maturity of the mind, nor should it have any place in making of any desicions. Some of the greatest NESers here are 15 and started when they were younger.

Just because you're older doesn't make you better, and an age-restriction would only be a product of conservatives or elders fearful of change or an encroaching talent pool.

That is probably the stupidest suggestions i have seen.........ever.

 

[Turner]

THe course of action shouldn't be a retreat, but a mediation. We should talk and set out what is acceptable and unacceptable with the Moderation and Administration Team. But both sides have to be willing to negotiate to set down acceptable guidelines with in the rules. No breaking the treaty after it is signed. No "sneak spam attacks" or "Moderation Barrages".

Here is a list of acceptable guidelines. As I've said previously, stay within these parameters, and you won't be moderated.

Is there currently a place on CFC where you can bring up your moderation grievances? Any issues you have with a mod or a decsision, like is there a thread or a sub forum to bring those up?

Yes. Here.

 

[Swissempire]

Here is a list of acceptable guidelines. As I've said previously, stay within these parameters, and you won't be moderated.


Yes. Here.

Okay, so PM. Sweet.

And also, not covered in the Rules as it it more specific,

Is community builidng considered SPAM? As a Nesing forum we have our own strange sub-culture, and one of the main parts is the community we build. Being able to know everyone's personality. Community building and a community feeling makes the games themselves more fun. Things like perhaps, giveing awards or impressions, finding out what music, or tv shows, or what they look like, or what coutnry their from. Stuff like that.

 

[Turner]

Okay, so PM. Sweet.

That's actually in the forum rules.

Is community builidng considered SPAM?

It depends. If it's on topic discussion, then no, it's not spam.

As a Nesing forum we have our own strange sub-culture, and one of the main parts is the community we build. Being able to know everyone's personality. Community building and a community feeling makes the games themselves more fun.

This is not unique to the NES community here. I know the personalities of quite a few people just by on topic discussions with them. No need to spam to get to know people.

Things like perhaps, giveing awards or impressions, finding out what music, or tv shows, or what they look like, or what coutnry their from. Stuff like that.

In order, because I don't feel like parsing that many quotes: Acceptable, spam, spam, spam, acceptable, acceptable. Anything not covered on a case-by-case basis.

 

[Gelion]

That is probably the stupidest suggestions i have seen.........ever.

Do you have an teen complex of some sort?

Age does not equal experience or as you said older people dont get to be the best players just because they are old. However your responce is exactly what I'm talking about.... acting mature and lack of it on the NES forums. My post could have been read as "allow only mature people on the forum". You chose to read it the way you did.... and flamed me. You know what? I dont give a damn about that.... My goal is to have quality game with my online peers. Lets just leave it at that.

 

[Turner]

Moderator Action: Let's not start a flame war.

Swissempire, warned.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Dreadnought]

I don't understand why you guys are complaining about mod activities. THEY control what goes on, YOU don't have a say, and YOU are asking for a ban by being arguementative in public. Jeez.

As for moving, I say we take the conservative approach, and stay. This has been raised a lot, and I think that the changes might be more drastic, or subtle, then we think. After all, if there's no problem, why fix it?

Going to a new area brings new people. Some of them may be pains in the... keister and yell on how they want it to go. Some might be annoying and just plain newbish. Some might be good NESers. Who knows what the ratio will be, but staying keeps the things balanced, at least for now.

As for a whole new forum, I think no. I am fine here, and it eliminates the tradition of civfanatics as part of NESing (I know its at other places, but this is like the birthplace).

My vote: stay.

 

[Turner]

Keep in mind, the same mod that 'bothers' you, will also be 'bothering' any newbs you get to play. The ones that can handle it will stay, and mature into a NESer. Those that don't like it, will leave.

 

[Birdjaguar]

There has also been a recent spate of threads that have been locked, apparently for spam.

Since the NES community is now fairly segregated both from the forum as an outside and from Civ3, the correct thing to do seems to be moving the subforum as a whole to THE COLOSSEUM, next to All Other Games and Off Topic, both of which are far closer kin than "Civ3-Succession Games".

I don't have time for complete post ATM, but I will address one point. Why not try out a switch to the colesseum by putting a link there that looks a subforum, but takes posters to the civ3 forum where we are now? We could gauge what happens without actually making a move. I like the idea of moving to the colesseum and this might be a way to test it.

 

[Reno]

Keep in mind, the same mod that 'bothers' you, will also be 'bothering' any newbs you get to play. The ones that can handle it will stay, and mature into a NESer. Those that don't like it, will leave.

Exactly. Now as for my opinions on this topic and suggestions made in it.

Creating a completely separate forum has been tried before, and those failed eventually, but that doesn't mean that this couldn't work. Maturity and the right people handling the overall work however would be very important.

As for moving the NES forum to All Other Games or The Colosseum forum, I'm not opposed to that, yet again even that has its downsides.

But...

What mostly has been bothering me with nearly all of you guys here is that no matter how many times you get moderated, you just keep on breaking the rules... (And I'm no exception to that, I know. But still...)

Threads are either closed without warning or become boring as NESers live with the fear of sudden closure above their heads, with nowhere to complain - 'you post here, you follow the forum rules'. Everybody again loses as NESing become ritualistic.

This is taking this way out of proportion...

My goal is to have quality game with my online peers. Lets just leave it at that.

This is the one statement that I agree the most with.

 

[Kozmos]

ffs....I'm 16 I reserve the right to be immature a bit. (not tote/ken style though)

What about making it so the posts in the NES forum do not add to the post count? Is this why 'spamming' is frowned upon?

 

[Thlayli]

I think that things are fine here at CFC. I would disagree with changing to a new forum, and here's why: fresh players. Thousands of people access the CFC forums every day, and as a result talented NESers wander in every now and again.

Most of us found NESing by accident, being originally interested in Civ. I know that I sure wouldn't have found NESing if it had been just another random forum floating in the internet.

I'd support a move to Other Games however, since Erik has a point that NESing is no longer linked intrinsically to Civ3. And if this was linked with a nice front page announcement this could generate lots of new interest.

(Idea: Perhaps someone opens a newbie NES to cope with the influx of new players, and new players should be "encouraged" to play at least 3 turns in such a NES before joining any others. This would require more community involvement, but an experienced mod like NK or Gelion could definitely do it.)

 

[Reno]

What about making it so the posts in the NES forum do not add to the post count? Is this why 'spamming' is frowned upon?

Well, that's likely to be one reason why it is frowned upon, but it's not solely that. Since, spam is not allowed in forum areas where posts don't add to post count, like 'Forum Games' for example.

Edit:

And if this was linked with a nice front page announcement this could generate lots of new interest.

I think TF has previously said that advertizing forum sections like that isn't a good idea. Or something along those lines. And he said that with regards specifically to the NES forum at that time. Since, the idea of linking (Not talking about moving) the NES forum elsewhere has been suggested before, I remember asking him if it was possible.

 

[Imago]

Given recent events, I think that the NES forum might run better with a NESer mod.

But, aside from that, I was thinking about posting a thread similar to this, (the main reason I didn't being as I'm new) and I feel that if we moved to somewhere in Off-Topic, we would be more appropriately placed, and probably get more players. (Which, if appropriately handled, is most definately a Good Thing.) We also wouldn't need to constantly send failed petitions to be moved up to civ4 stories and tales.

 

[LittleBoots]

What about making it so the posts in the NES forum do not add to the post count? Is this why 'spamming' is frowned upon?

I actually think this is a really good idea. For instance, the last time I was around, the roleplaying forum for Anarchy Online didn't have a postcount and things were allowed to be slightly more spammy and off-topic. This doesn't mean you could go wild, but a wider range of things were allowed simply because the community was exactly that and they encouraged it.

Also, I strongly disagree with the closing of the XCOM thread. It was true "Never-Ending Story," even if it wasn't Civ3 (neither are most, if not all, NESes now). Daft wrote an update, we wrote stories. I don't see how that doesn't fit here and would at least like an explanation.

 

[Kentharu]

turner has a good point, if we stay, the mods will "crack down" on the newbs and make them mature

if you move to the other forum thingy then you will have more wierdos like us... more willing to play and more willing to not be immature