The global cold trade war has no borders anymore

[Hrothbern]

I commented in several other threads already that we have since the end of the NATO-Soviet cold war as replacement a tacit cold trade war.

With the latest rumors, see Wall Street article, it appears that Trump is expanding his cold trade war to Europe, a NATO ally !

"WASHINGTON—The Trump administration is advancing a strategy that could derail efforts by Boeing Co. and Airbus SE to sell hundreds of jetliners to Iranian airlines, U.S. officials said"

Airbus is a European company.
The total Iran deal is about 40 Billion Dollar.
The EU, amongst other countries, have expressed there clear support to the existing peace deal with Iran, and Trump is forcing the issue with his trade weapon, because some parts of the Airbus are currently manufactured in the US.

The European countries, who DO consider themselves being sovereign nations, will not be amused with this powerplay of Trump.... Trump in effect starting a tradewar with Europe.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/boeing...dministration-formulates-iran-plan-1513360961

 

[innonimatu]

Good, the world needs trade wars. Or rather, an end to a lot of the existing trade treaties.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Silly europeans, only America is allowed to export aircraft! And only Amercian companies that support the Republicans and the Super-Awesome-Most-Popular-And-Sucessful-President-In-The-History-Of-Ever President Trump the Super-Mega-Hyper-Ultra-Magnificent are allowed to play.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Also let Russians get the business...

 

[Hrothbern]

Also let Russians get the business...

Yeah
It is must be a conspiracy of Trump with Russia and China
If he screws the US and European Aircraft industry, the only ones really benefitting are Russia and China

 

[Perfection]

Trump has a stupid face, a fat stupid face. Also he is fat and stupid just like his fat stupid face.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Trump has a stupid face, a fat stupid face. Also he is fat and stupid just like his fat stupid face.

Disabled people with physical and mental health issues deserve respect too. It makes you look so good when you elect disadvantage people for prez. Only in America....

 

[Commodore]

it appears that Trump is expanding his cold trade war to Europe, a NATO ally

They are only our allies on paper. Lately they haven't been treating us as allies so it was only a matter of time before we started to hit back.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

They are only our allies on paper. Lately they haven't been treating us as allies so it was only a matter of time before we started to hit back.

You need to do some explaining here. What do you mean by "not treating you like an ally"?

 

[Hrothbern]

They are only our allies on paper. Lately they haven't been treating us as allies so it was only a matter of time before we started to hit back.

It all started after Trump became president....
Europe became cautious.... that is, I think, not stopping to treat the US as an ally, but more IF the US really goes the direction of Trump, HOW does that change the alliance and what are the consequences.

That the EU has on for example Iran another opinion as Trump, and sticks to it... is that blowing up the NATO alliance ?

 

[tamyrlin]

The last time USA didn't think of Europe as allies, we got a new word 'Freedom Fries'. For French opposition to Iraq war. Why should allies mean, no difference in opinion? If allies meant no difference in opinion, would that be called allies anymore?

Last time ,USA was not getting invaded by Iraq . The great US of A , decided 9/11 meant it got attacked. It meant, it could start whatever war it wanted, and if someone had a different opinion, it meant they were not ally. You are either with us or with them.

If USA got in a pickle and it didn't get helped, then I guess you can justifiably claim no longer allies. But if allies do not agree with whatever pickle the US of A wants to unilaterally start, is it an end of alliance?

Are Iraq war and tearing up agreement with Iran really desirable? Aren't the allies more correct about this.

More importantly post-cold war and with nations increasingly dealing with self-interest and give and take and negotiated deals. Who are allies? Is China an ally? Pakistan?Saudi Arabia? India?France?Germany?Japan?Taiwan?South Korea?.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Also let Russians get the business...

Would rather have Russian nuclear reactors or French nuclear reactors ?

 

[Traitorfish]

They are only our allies on paper. Lately they haven't been treating us as allies so it was only a matter of time before we started to hit back.

You certain that spite is a solid foundation for foreign policy?

 

[Broken_Erika]

You certain that spite is a solid foundation for foreign policy?

It's how they're running their domestic policy, and economic policy, and health-care policy, and science policy, and public relations policy. It works for elections, therefore it most works for everything!

 

[Ryika]

It all started after Trump became president....
Europe became cautious.... that is, I think, not stopping to treat the US as an ally, but more IF the US really goes the direction of Trump, HOW does that change the alliance and what are the consequences.

Europe has been cautious for a long time. Which is no surprise, given that the USA are not only ideologically completely different from Europe, they're also spying on our governments, and have a direct conflict of interest with a strong EU.

The only thing that really changed under Trump is how our relationship with the USA is being communicated to and perceived by the public. Trump's presidency, the way he stands for all the things that Europe thinks is the "dark side of the USA", has been used to create a narrative that Europe must now decouple itself from the USA, and stand on its own feet, take the leadership role in the world, etc. That's good of course, because eff the USA, but let's not pretend Trump is the trigger of the things that were already happening before him.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

It all started after Trump became president....
Europe became cautious.... that is, I think, not stopping to treat the US as an ally, but more IF the US really goes the direction of Trump, HOW does that change the alliance and what are the consequences.

That the EU has on for example Iran another opinion as Trump, and sticks to it... is that blowing up the NATO alliance ?

It started much earlier, during the beginning of the Bush II administration.

The last time USA didn't think of Europe as allies, we got a new word 'Freedom Fries'. For French opposition to Iraq war. Why should allies mean, no difference in opinion? If allies meant no difference in opinion, would that be called allies anymore?

I don't think the USA ever thought of Europe (or anyone else for that matter) as allies. They used the word "allies", but what they actualy meant was vassals. Our governments enabled them, first out of necessity, and after the fall of the USSR out of inertia. We've always been friends with Oceania.
Now even the more US friendly governments are literally disillusioned and soon NATO will only be ink on paper.

 

[Broken_Erika]

The last time USA didn't think of Europe as allies, we got a new word 'Freedom Fries'. For French opposition to Iraq war......

And the French responded by pointing out that "French Fries" were from Belgium.

 

[Hrothbern]

Europe has been cautious for a long time. Which is no surprise, given that the USA are not only ideologically completely different from Europe, they're also spying on our governments, and have a direct conflict of interest with a strong EU.
The only thing that really changed under Trump is how our relationship with the USA is being communicated to and perceived by the public. Trump's presidency, the way he stands for all the things that Europe thinks is the "dark side of the USA", has been used to create a narrative that Europe must now decouple itself from the USA, and stand on its own feet, take the leadership role in the world, etc. That's good of course, because eff the USA, but let's not pretend Trump is the trigger of the things that were already happening before him.

It started much earlier, during the beginning of the Bush II administration.
I don't think the USA ever thought of Europe (or anyone else for that matter) as allies. They used the word "allies", but what they actualy meant was vassals. Our governments enabled them, first out of necessity, and after the fall of the USSR out of inertia. We've always been friends with Oceania.
Now even the more US friendly governments are literally disillusioned and soon NATO will only be ink on paper.

Agree with you both
in that sense that I should have worded "Europe became cautious" better.

There have been countries, political parties, wings of parties, that were cautious.
Even in 1954, when the Bilderberg Group was founded exactly for the purpose to repair the at that moment fast decreasing confidence in Europe in a US that was really a partner.
My country was since WW2 a bit less than for example the UK, typical very much pro-US, other countries like France kept their own course and Germany became much earlier more open minded to US critical solid press information, reflected in the German Foreign affairs.
And I agree with you GoodSamatian, that with Bush 2, the increasing doubt about the US became clearly stronger.
I guess the increasing power of Asia has also brought the US to the position that Europe is less important, and less care for the partnership is both needed as expressed.
Overall meaning that more and more of the European support for a vassal like position to the US as practical public stance, has eroded slowly away.

I do however also think that Trump symbolises a tipping point.
He is blunt in his public world view, no European citizen, no voter for a next election, could anymore pretend to miss that, to ignore it.

and THAT marked the moment that even the bigger European leaders could no longer keep their classic diplomatic stance to avoid controversities.

They, Europe, became publicly cautious.

 

[innonimatu]

I don't thing european NATO countries, apart from Turkey, are anywhere near decoupling from the US. They are not going to blindly follow any longer, but they will keep playing the ally game. It was always a game where betraying the allies for the sake of advancing national priorities kept happening, in recent decades that has actually happened less. The reason to keep playing that game i that the alternative, being an outright enemy (or competitor...), is worse. That is the reason why even when trust breaks down completely (see De Gaulle's France, or today's Turkey) they will make an effort to remain formally allies. And from the US side, it still needs its european vassals for larger global diplomatic and economic conflicts, and can still manipulate their governments often enough due to their differences.