The Good State of Offtopic

[Valka D'Ur]

@Valka D'Ur i didnt know Mary left. I liked her. Say hello to her from me

I will certainly do so.

I was going to address this, but it's late and I'm tired, and frankly it isn't worth the effort. Suffice it to say that I stand by what I said. You obviously don't agree, so we'll leave it at that.

Weren't you just preaching about owning what you say? Well, pfft, so much for that.

I'm still dumbfounded that you think you are entitled to decide how other people are allowed to feel about things that happen to them or that are said to them. Mary said she felt bullied, so who are you to say she's wrong, especially when other people have also stated that she was bullied/ganged-up on?

That people try to put others down in a web forum is something pretty ridiculous. I can only see it having a point among teens, but others are just garbage imo if they do that.
It's a stupid forum; if you dont like someone ignore them and move on.

Sadly, the playground bully culture is invading CFC. I'd thought this place was better than that, but it wouldn't be the first time I overestimated some aspect of this site.

 

[Ironsided]

Unrelated story to Mary but I’ll take the time to remind people of ca 2010 when moderators at the time could not get enough of protecting a very peculiar new kitten. In an overzealous effort to protect the posters rights to be in every thread, making ridiculous claims, all the time, and regular posters trying to step in and moderate were banned and/or just leaving the forum on a daily basis. It was an imploding mess of bad moderation going worse by the minute. Moderation is hard and I think it’s at least better today than it used to be.

 

[Akka]

That people try to put others down in a web forum is something pretty ridiculous. I can only see it having a point among teens, but others are just garbage imo if they do that.
It's a stupid forum; if you dont like someone ignore them and move on.

It's both true and ironic at the same time.
Do you really believe that acting immature is only something happening among teens ? Or even only happening to a select part of the population ?

Unrelated story to Mary but I’ll take the time to remind people of ca 2010 when moderators at the time could not get enough of protecting a very peculiar new kitten. In an overzealous effort to protect the posters rights to be in every thread, making ridiculous claims, all the time, and regular posters trying to step in and moderate were banned and/or just leaving the forum on a daily basis. It was an imploding mess of bad moderation going worse by the minute. Moderation is hard and I think it’s at least better today than it used to be.

Domination comes to mind.
The poster, I mean.

 

[Kyriakos]

It is the web; your right to be offended may or may not be defended. Mods are just posters who got an arbitrary role, not somehow more able or just in deciding anything.

Domination comes to mind.
The poster, I mean.

Are you sure you mean the poster?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Unrelated story to Mary but I’ll take the time to remind people of ca 2010 when moderators at the time could not get enough of protecting a very peculiar new kitten. In an overzealous effort to protect the posters rights to be in every thread, making ridiculous claims, all the time, and regular posters trying to step in and moderate were banned and/or just leaving the forum on a daily basis. It was an imploding mess of bad moderation going worse by the minute. Moderation is hard and I think it’s at least better today than it used to be.

I was on staff in 2010 and do not recall any kittens joining the forum. I suppose my cat might have secretly made an account since she enjoyed being around and on my computer and once sent an email to some Freecycle colleagues in the UK and Australia using my account. I had to explain to them that I wasn't the one who typed half a page of alphabet soup, followed by a couple of rows of the letter "x" (it looked like the email was full of swearing). I was assured that nobody took offense, since the argumentdiscussion had become contentious and frustrating anyway.

But Maddy was already 3 years old in 2010 (and therefore past the kitten stage), so maybe it was someone else's cat.

 

[Camikaze]

I'm still dumbfounded that you think you are entitled to decide how other people are allowed to feel about things that happen to them or that are said to them. Mary said she felt bullied, so who are you to say she's wrong, especially when other people have also stated that she was bullied/ganged-up on?

It might be worth re-reading Lemon Merchant's post. There's a clear difference between saying someone was, objectively, not bullied, and saying someone did not feel bullied. At no stage did LM say that Mary was not allowed to feel bullied or interpret posts as she saw fit; in fact, she said, "I don't blame Mary for leaving if that was her perception of events".

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Wait, he did this? Where'd I miss that? What are the two best days in the week?

It's in the recently Necroed "Top 5s" thread. I wasn't expecting anyone to get all excited about that bit to be honest.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Suffice it to say that I stand by what I said.

Weren't you just preaching about owning what you say? Well, pfft, so much for that.

??

I'm still dumbfounded that you think you are entitled to decide how other people are allowed to feel about things that happen to them or that are said to them. Mary said she felt bullied, so who are you to say she's wrong

I don't think Lemon was questioning how anyone felt about anything, nor giving instruction on how they should feel.

especially when other people have also stated that she was bullied/ganged-up on?

If you're being consistent, then surely these people's opinions should be just as irrelevant to the truth of the matter as Lemon's. That would include your own as well.


Frankly it would be nice to just move on. There's something horrendously awkward and unseemly about openly discussing someone on an open forum when they're not even here. Seems a bit gossipy and unpleasant.

Edit to say: the last comment wasn't written as a knowing nod to any wider events, but I can see how it operates perfectly in that way too.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

It might be worth re-reading Lemon Merchant's post. There's a clear difference between saying someone was, objectively, not bullied, and saying someone did not feel bullied. At no stage did LM say that Mary was not allowed to feel bullied or interpret posts as she saw fit; in fact, she said, "I don't blame Mary for leaving if that was her perception of events".

It's so fascinating how the objective fact that other people have also observed that Mary was bullied/ganged-up on gets dismissed and ignored.

 

[Synobun]

Perspective is perspective. Ultimately the only one that matters is Mary's since she's the one in control of whether or not she stays. There being disagreement, or agreement, or some mish-mash of the two is essentially irrelevant to her decision.

I hope she comes back, but I also hope she does what's best for her mental health. If being here and being aggressively confronted by multiple people at the same time is known to be damaging, it'd be unreasonable of me or any of us to want her to be involved with that again. She's not wrong for feeling that way, and arguing about whether or not it qualifies as bullying is almost secondary because the end result is the same regardless.

I don't think Lemon meant what she said disparagingly or dismissively. We all have our biases based on our pasts and presents. A neutral event can be seen as immensely positive or immensely negative by two different people, and that imbalance gets more and more wonky with more and more context. We all reach different conclusions from one another.

Especially when there is preexisting hostility between two of the parties trying to reach a conclusion.

 

[rah]

I was looking forward to spectacular wedding shots.

 

[Kyriakos]

Good syn, think of your own post above the next time you feel offended
Re Mary, unfortunately this forum rarely gets new people, and one can see why. I vote the thread is renamed to "the bad state of ot".

 

[Synobun]

Good syn, think of your own post above the next time you feel offended

That people try to put others down in a web forum is something pretty ridiculous. I can only see it having a point among teens, but others are just garbage imo if they do that.
It's a stupid forum; if you dont like someone ignore them and move on.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

It's so fascinating how the objective fact that other people have also observed that Mary was bullied/ganged-up on gets dismissed and ignored.

Valka as a committed atheist you must be fully aware that the objective fact that multiple people agree on something doesn't make the thing they agree on an objective fact itself.

 

[rah]

Welcome to the age of outrage. Kinda sad.
People are way to quick to take offense these days.

 

[Kyriakos]

I am not trying to put you down; i directed you to a post of yours i agree with.

 

[Synobun]

Welcome to the age of outrage. Kinda sad.
People are way to quick to take offense these days.

If by "these days" you mean for all of recorded human history, sure.

 

[rah]

No, social media has exaggerated the issue greatly.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Good, think of your own post above the next time you feel offended
Re Mary, unfortunately this forum rarely gets new people, and one can see why. I vote the thread is renamed to "the bad state of ot".

Yes, I think if behaviour like that in the thread in question was the norm only the opinionated and argumentative will ever venture here. Not a problem for me I admit but not good for OT IMO.
Fortunately most threads aren't like that. I think its possible to reply to a person without being confrontational - attack the argument, not the person. I wouldn't say I always succeed in that but I do try to.

 

[Synobun]

No, social media has exaggerated the issue greatly.

Pretty cool revisionist history. You were alive during the days of when someone being black was offensive. Maybe humans are just not that great.