The Great Patriotic War: WWII on the Eastern Front (Development Diary)

[ww2commander]

Which event are you planning to include?

The list of events is growing and inclusion depends on two key rules:
1. Can it be done via lua?
2. Does it serve any real purpose or just eye candy?

So far I have successfully implemented Italian army deployment, partisan units on city capture, far eastern reserves. Much more are planned.

Minor detail; Copenhagen should be a german puppet, as Denmark retained its own government untill 1943 when Germany took over the control of the country completely.

As there is no real benefit of having it as a separate CS (makes no difference to scenario), I decided to represent it as a German city. What you have in game is a representation of the Greater Reich

Keep in mind that each additional civ or CS increases the workload with regards to units, buildings, events and, most importantly, the AI's usage of the advanced economic system.

 

[S.O.T MAHak]

As there is no real benefit of having it as a separate CS (makes no difference to scenario), I decided to represent it as a German city. What you have in game is a representation of the Greater Reich

Keep in mind that each additional civ or CS increases the workload with regards to units, buildings, events and, most importantly, the AI's usage of the advanced economic system.

What i meant was that it should be a german puppet city, owned by Germany but not under it's control untill annexed, not a CS.

I've looked at the map you posted in an earlier post. I think Berlin should be moved, atleast, 2 tiles to the west. Some hills should be put in it's place(The Seelow heights, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Seelow_Heights )

If you replace the grassland tile, 1 tile west and then 1 tile north-west of St. Petersburg, with a coast tile. And then place a grassland(+ a fort) tile 2 tiles west of St. Petersburg, then you have the Kronstadt island fortrees that defended the city.

I'm looking forward to playing this scenario, I can tell you've put alot of effort into it.

 

[ww2commander]

What i meant was that it should be a german puppet city, owned by Germany but not under it's control untill annexed, not a CS.

My bad, I misunderstood. I plan to look at the puppet state situation, but I need to analyse how this should impact the production system. Right now, occupied cities have severe production penalties (USSR cities in mind). These penalties might not reflect historical situations such as Focke Wulf moving production to Poland and existing tank production in Austria which was quite productive.

I've looked at the map you posted in an earlier post. I think Berlin should be moved, atleast, 2 tiles to the west. Some hills should be put in it's place(The Seelow heights, )

That is an old map I initially posted for feedback. Feedback prompted me to scrap it and start from scratch. The new map has been designed by overlaying a massive hex grid over an image of Europe I found on the net from that period. All cities and major terrain features are now position as close to accurate as possible. The same applies to all rivers, towns and major railroads.

If you replace the grassland tile, 1 tile west and then 1 tile north-west of St. Petersburg, with a coast tile. And then place a grassland(+ a fort) tile 2 tiles west of St. Petersburg, then you have the Kronstadt island fortrees that defended the city.

Regarding historical forts, I am in the process of assessing how these should impact game play. Towns on the map (trading posts) provided a 50% defense bonus similar to forts. Additionally, I plan to use fortified region and hedgehog units depending on situations and events.

EDIT: Also, naval units are excluded at this stage as they did not play a significant role and the convoy system will be represented virtually instead of on the map. Another reason is that embarking is disabled in this scenario.

I'm looking forward to playing this scenario, I can tell you've put alot of effort into it.

Thanks, all feedback is welcome and makes it worth the effort

 

[ww2commander]

Update 26th Dec 2012

Well this is probably the last update post for the year, but unfortunately it is not as positive as I would like it to be

Since my last update, I have spent much time refining units, buildings, the economy and other elements. I was working towards a possible late Jan 2013 'alpha' test release (optimistic deadline!) but things have come to a grinding halt at present.

For the last 4 days I have been trying to track down a 'deal breaking' bug relating to load games stuffing up city buildings. For the first 2 days I paid only some attention to it thinking it would be a simple UI or SQL fix. However, the last 2 days have been a headache involving stripping elements of my mod apart to figure out where the problem even arises from (no clue as to exact source of bug)!

I have raised a separate thread on the issue, so wont waste space here, but the issue is 100% replicated by saving the game and then reloading. Once reloaded, all cities have their original buildings lost or mixed up. Without proper load functionality, this mod is no good (that is obvious for any mod)!

Will continue to search for a solution, but for now a stormy cloud hangs over my head and it is annoying me

 

[ww2commander]

Call for help!

After close to a year's worth of work, this project has grown from a small idea into something quite big. Unfortunately as it grows, the bugs and issues are also growing beyond my capacity to fix them properly or with the right lua knowledge.

After some correspondence with whoward, I have come to the realization that I am biting off more than I can chew.

Thus I have reached the point where I think the mod is in a good position for me to put out a request for additional people to join me in trying to get it to alpha stage.

Now I know most of you must be thinking "ye right, you want someone to do the dirty work for you!" or "here we go, he's scrapped together bits of working code and wants to put it all together!"...but rest assured, there is a workable mod here that just needs a few experts to get it to the finish line.

If you have lua and SQL experience and would like to have a look at this project and determine if you would like to join me then drop me a PM. I will get in touch with you and provide links to my code and instructions on how to get it working.

For the time being, I will be taking a break from any further modding. Keep checking this thread to see if any progress is made down the track.

 

[thecivinator58]

I have no idea how to do the coding and stuff, but I think these units would be useful for the mod:
USSR:
Pe-3
Pe-3bis
MiG-1
MiG-3
MiG-3UD
MiG-9
Yak-1
Yak-1B
Yak-3
Yak-9K
SB-2
Su-2
I-15
I-15bis
I-5
T-18/MS-1
Germany:
FW-190D
BF-109K
Panther Ausf F
Panther II
Panzer IV Ausf J
Do-17
BF-110G
Me-210
Me-410
Finland:
Mörkö-Morane
Fiat G.50
B-239
VL Myrsky
Romania:
Škoda R-2
BF-109 (E and G models)
He-111
Ju-87
IAR 81
Slovakia:
Avia B-534
LT-vz. 35
BF-109 (E and G models)

 

[ww2commander]

Hi thecivinator58,

That list was pretty much identical to what I had planned (and mostly completed) when I was using my custom counters for units. It was an easy case of drawing a new dds and I could add any unit.

Unfortunately that no longer works so I have had to revert to the current 3D units and am at the mercy of the handful of unit creators on the civ5 section.

snafusmith has recently come along and started created some new ww2 units

I am hoping he will create some of the required units for my mod as you might have noticed a few threads back.

 

[thecivinator58]

I know, I saw that, I was just hoping to add on to it

 

[ww2commander]

Things have started progressing again

The bad news was that I had to scrap the map (which I was suspicious might have been corrupted) and the current code as too many issues had started to creep into it.

The good news is that the map and most of the code has now been ported over and tested.

This process has enabled me to further refine the worker, food and equipment generation processes which was previously linked to static integer values for certain building types.

These figures are now dynamically linked to a city size, total food yield and total production yield. Bigger cities produce more workers for factories which in turn produce more equipment output. In turn, more workers means more food consumed.

This solution addresses the issue of a size 5 city producing the same amount of equipment and consuming the same amount of food as a size 12 city. This also makes a player think about which cities to choose as production centers and not just build them randomly in any city

Finally, a huge thanks to whoward who has been patient in helping me troubleshoot my code and and motivating me to keep at it.

 

[krasny]

I'm really looking forward to this mod.

 

[ww2commander]

Thanks for the support krasny.

I apologize for the lack of information lately as things have been a mess on my end with coding.

 

[ww2commander]

Well things are finally starting to head in the right direction again. After much lost time solving that annoying city building bug and other bugs, I have managed to get the scenario back on track.

Supply System ('new' and improved version 3!)
As I decided to start with a clean slate and import my code across, I thought this would be a good opportunity to address the old production system's issues/limitations.

Previously, building production was based on a flat output rate of production resources (food, fuel, steel, aluminium, power, rail) and equipment. This bugged me as it did not reflect the reality of production or the importance of large cities. Producing T-34 tanks in a small city like Grozny yielded the same output as a massive city like Leningrad!!!

The solution: Link production directly into a cities food yield and production (hammer yield). Thus larger cities have more workers and produce more output. However, larger output is achieved at the cost of more food and necessary production resources.

This new design has also allowed me to link supply system information directly to each city enabling more tooltip info when hovering over city banners.

As I type this update, I am finalizing some loose ends of the production system and have even provided a prototype screenshot below (figures need fine-tuning and some details are missing like production requirements).

 

[Gedemon]

great work (again) on the UI

The "secondary" cities are used for something specific ?

 

[General Tso]

"Well things are finally starting to head in the right direction again. After much lost time solving that annoying city building bug and other bugs, I have managed to get the scenario back on track."

Look at it as a learning experience. That's what I always try to tell myself after spending umpteen hours tracking down a bug or two.

By the way this looks like a great mod. I look forward to trying it.

 

[ww2commander]

The "secondary" cities are used for something specific ?

Yes, they will (eventually) provide additional production bonuses and personnel to a player. They also serve as strategic points (strong defence like forts) which sit on critical routes and junctions.

I am also considering including them as a part of victory conditions by allocating a set value to them.

 

[S.O.T MAHak]

I know you are busy with coding and stuff!

But i have some questions. I like to know if you are implementing some of these following aspects of the eastern front.

1. Will Murmansk and Arkhangelsk have some special significance regarding the sea-convoys from US and UK?

2. Will USSR be able to invade Iran like in real life?

3. The widht of the railroads in Germany and Russia was, and still is i think, not the same size. This created bottle-necks in the german supply system when goods had to be loaded from german trains to russian trains at the pre-war border.

Anyway your scenario looks very promising.

 

[ww2commander]

I know you are busy with coding and stuff!

But i have some questions.

No probs...always happy to answer questions.

1. Will Murmansk and Arkhangelsk have some special significance regarding the sea-convoys from US and UK?

2. Will USSR be able to invade Iran like in real life?

Both of these events will form a core part of the scenario given their importance. The Lend Lease system is still being designed (in my head!) as I have not found the most ideal way to represent it yet.

I prefer to represent a more realistic system of supply via leand lease rather than randomly spawning a unit on border edges. The importance of trucks and production resources needs to be evident in the scenario in addition to the commitment to keep such routes open around the year.

Here are some ideas I have:

• Murmansk (not on the map, but represented as an upper most rail connected plot on my map) and Arkangelsk need to have an open connection to either Moscow or Leningrad to get supplies through. Losing this connection delays schedule shipments.
• Both routes will likely be projects that must be built.
• Both routes require military resources to undertake and maintain connectivity. This will be subtracted from the player's national pool of personnel and equipment.
• The rail system is a vital component of both routes and can be cut by the enemy.

Current Design Limitation:
I can extract rough quantity and shipping info for the Iran route, but the Arctic Convoy cargo manifests remain quite obscure at present as all the info on the web is very summary or incomplete. If anyone has any good links with a break down of each convoy's manifest then it would greatly help.

3. The widht of the railroads in Germany and Russia was, and still is i think, not the same size. This created bottle-necks in the german supply system when goods had to be loaded from german trains to russian trains at the pre-war border.

I pondered on this for a while and have not come up with a useful/practical reason to implement this given the current territory (culture) capture mechanism does exactly the same thing (refer to Gedmon's RED WWII mod for further info on this feature).

The other thing is that rail is represented in abstract way in the scenario. Players accumulate 'rail points' via active rail connection between cities and the main rail hub with bonuses provided by buildings such as large railyards.

 

[S.O.T MAHak]

How are things coming up?

Suggestion: Make Sweden at permanent peace with all nations and give them tons of iron which Germany historical imported in great quantities.

PS. I think comrade Stalin would be very unhappy to see that his influence doesnt extents into the lakes

 

[ww2commander]

Suggestion: Make Sweden at permanent peace with all nations and give them tons of iron which Germany historical imported in great quantities.

No Sweden as an actual civ or CS.

I did originally have them and then realised that it was a pain in the butt to worry about their military and production system when they do nothing! Also, it was one more player to process which just slows down things.

However, having said that, I plan to simulate Sweden's importance to Germany. Not sure how right now, but that has never stopped me doing something

How are things coming up?

I have just ironed out most of the bugs in the unit damage and healing system and have moved on to developing the morale system.

This will take some careful planning as I want it to consider the following elements:
- Personnel level
- Equipment levels
- Food/Fuel supply
- Supply lines
- Seasonal weather
- Enemy proximity
- Combat results
- Promotions
- Victory points (more on this later)

Most of this list is easily 'processable' using my custom supply system, but I need to ensure it is balanced for the AI players as well as the human Soviet player.

 

[ww2commander]

Brief update to let followers know of my progress. Focus of development has moved back to testing the unit damage and resupply model (trying to break it basically!). Numerous bugs are coming out of the wood-work which is a positive thing.

In doing the testing, I have spent the last few days researching the TOE tables (Table of Organization & Equipment) for the Axis units and have come to the realization that finding reliable unit org info on German units is challenging.

You would figure that the USSR, veiled in secrecy would prove a challenge to find reliable combat TOEs , but it turns out that all the info is quite complete and 90% consistent across books and websites! The Soviets seemed to stick to standardization in almost everything they did.

German TOEs on the other hand are pure guess work at best and speculation at worse. The whole period leading up to June 1941 is almost blank for anything relating to Panzer and Panzergrenadier divisions (reason is most TOEs of this period were lost or rare). Total tank figures seems to be the only reliable info on Panzer divisions as at June 1941. The wild inconsistency between personnel figures in various units is also doing my head in.

To make matters worse, almost every Panzer and Infantry division had different structures and variations on the structure....even in 43/44 when they were supposed to standardize structures. Infantry had numerous waves (recruitment cycles) and each wave was structured with a purpose. A 1st wave infantry division could be significantly different to a 3rd wave infantry division and so on . Panzer divisions seemed to be unique in almost every sense of the word with equipment variations and personnel totals!

I am currently utilizing an approach of averaging (massaging) totals or using figures that repeat in more than one source of information. Osprey books seem to be the most reliable source at this stage.