The Hall of Players

An AP vote forced me to stop trading with Justinian. This cancelled our open borders agreement, but the resource trades remained active. Is this normal?? How do I even cancel resource trades while he refuses to talk?
 
Wouldn't it be a good thing that the resource trades are still active?

In normal BUG you can cancel the trades in the Resources tab, but that doesn't work in .003 BUFFY. But you can go into the Active tab and cancel them there if you wish.
 
Hah... How come I have never visited that tab before? :blush:

Yup, it's a good thing they are still active. But I was wondering if this was a new "feature" of .004b. Don't recall seeing this before, not that I recall ever checking for this either.
 
elitetroops said:
An AP vote forced me to stop trading with Justinian. This cancelled our open borders agreement, but the resource trades remained active. Is this normal?
Click to expand...
It is normal if the agreement was signed within the last 10 turns.

I have seen Open Borders agreements and Resource trade agreements survive an enforced cancellation of deals if those agreements were signed within the last 10 turns.

This behaviour happens consistently whether the reason for the cancellation was the Apostolic Palace or whether it was from agreeing to another AI's request to stop trading with the target AI.


I am not sure how other agreements may or may not be affected by agreeing to stop trading with an AI or being forced by the Apostolic Palace to stop trading with an AI, such as a Defensive Pact.

It would certainly be interesting to find out whether a Defensive Pact can be cancelled via those methods and also it would be worth checking if a Defensive Pact that was signed within the last 10 turns will remain active when stopping trading.
 
You could cancel resource trades in BUG/BULL and BAT for some time now. Feature probably wasn't in the BUG/BULL version used to create .003 BUFFY.

ha..I still forget and go to the screen in BUFFY .003 to cancel the trade only to get the civopedia instead..ugh
 
Not used BUG in a while now so don't recall exactly how it worked, but if you click on a resource in the Resources tab, don't the deals get automatically cancelled, as in you don't get a confirmation box? May be a good thing it doesn't work then tbh, as I sometimes click on things I shouldn't have :blush: In the Active tab you are asked if you want to cancel the deal.

That tab is nice for seeing when 10 turns have passed btw, so I do use it from time to time. Also easier to see the exact individual deals when more resources are exchanged (or gpt), as this isn't clear in the diplo screen, or the Resources tab when there are multiple deals with one AI.
 
The Active tab of Foreign Trade Screen (F4) has always existed in BUFFY as far as I know. It tells you how turns of your 10t agreement for per turn trades are left and allows you to cancel trades whose 10t of required enforcement has expired.
 
Thanks Dhoomstriker. I guess that must be the explanation. Don't remember now how long the deals had been in effect when the vote came up. But good to know that deals cannot be forced to end like this within the first 10 turns.

Would indeed be interesting to know if a defensive pact is affected. If it is, then I guess they would be likely to defy.
 
An act of war is the only thing that will cancel per turn trades before their initial 10t requirement is up.
 
Hey, didn't have any luck in the General Discussion board, so I am reposting here:

I'm playing a game to submit to HoF for my EQM. I need a decent Time victory. I thought I had everything covered, but then I got blindsided:

Mansa and Joao capitulated to me early on. I directed them both to research Future Tech so that they couldn't finish Fusion and complete a Spaceship. Then, with 11 turns to go, Mansa launched a ship!

It took me a bit to figure out that Suleiman (the largest remaining Civ not under my control) had finished Fusion. AND THEN HE TRADED IT TO MANSA FOR CASH!!!

Without dwelling too much on what kind of AI logic allows Suleiman to trade away the tech that let's a competitor win the game, I need to figure out if I can salvage this.

The one path I can think of is the Tribute Demand. I haven't demanded tribute from Mansa up to this point. Under what circumstances will he refuse and go to war with me? What factors into the decision? Power Ratio? Land Ratio?

Can anyone think of another way to stop the ship from landing? The game speed is Quick, so 11 turns is enough time for the ship to make it, right? It had one engine and five thrusters.
 
zbgayumn said:
Hey, didn't have any luck in the General Discussion board, so I am reposting here:

I'm playing a game to submit to HoF for my EQM. I need a decent Time victory. I thought I had everything covered, but then I got blindsided:

Mansa and Joao capitulated to me early on. I directed them both to research Future Tech so that they couldn't finish Fusion and complete a Spaceship. Then, with 11 turns to go, Mansa launched a ship!

It took me a bit to figure out that Suleiman (the largest remaining Civ not under my control) had finished Fusion. AND THEN HE TRADED IT TO MANSA FOR CASH!!!

Without dwelling too much on what kind of AI logic allows Suleiman to trade away the tech that let's a competitor win the game, I need to figure out if I can salvage this.

The one path I can think of is the Tribute Demand. I haven't demanded tribute from Mansa up to this point. Under what circumstances will he refuse and go to war with me? What factors into the decision? Power Ratio? Land Ratio?

Can anyone think of another way to stop the ship from landing? The game speed is Quick, so 11 turns is enough time for the ship to make it, right? It had one engine and five thrusters.
Click to expand...

Urk!
If Mansa launched his Spaceship on Quick Speed, it will land in 7 turns right?
And you need 11 turns to win Time Victory?

Pretty sure the only thing you can do is raze Mansa's capital.
Burn it to the ground and it will stop his Space Ship.

Joshua368 said:
If it's beyond the sword, you can capture their capital after they launch their ship (but before it arrives) to completely destroy the ship. Its a tight window though so be ready.
Click to expand...


**Edit**
Ugh, it launched with only 1 Engine?
Not sure how many turns it will take then. :hmm:
 
zbgayumn said:
Hey, didn't have any luck in the General Discussion board, so I am reposting here:

I'm playing a game to submit to HoF for my EQM. I need a decent Time victory. I thought I had everything covered, but then I got blindsided:

Mansa and Joao capitulated to me early on. I directed them both to research Future Tech so that they couldn't finish Fusion and complete a Spaceship. Then, with 11 turns to go, Mansa launched a ship!

It took me a bit to figure out that Suleiman (the largest remaining Civ not under my control) had finished Fusion. AND THEN HE TRADED IT TO MANSA FOR CASH!!!

Without dwelling too much on what kind of AI logic allows Suleiman to trade away the tech that let's a competitor win the game, I need to figure out if I can salvage this.

The one path I can think of is the Tribute Demand. I haven't demanded tribute from Mansa up to this point. Under what circumstances will he refuse and go to war with me? What factors into the decision? Power Ratio? Land Ratio?

Can anyone think of another way to stop the ship from landing? The game speed is Quick, so 11 turns is enough time for the ship to make it, right? It had one engine and five thrusters.
Click to expand...

True, you'd have to get his capital razed. Not much time on quick.
You'd have to either:
a) get an AI to do it
- Give an AI a ton of units near his capital, DoW that AI so Mansa will be at war with them too.

b) get him to break free from you and do the razing yourself.
You might be able to get him to break off if you gift him a ton of cities so he has enough land and/or population to be freed.

c) get him to DoW you
demand a bunch of stuff (but you probably need to increase is land and or power ratio first...not sure here)
 
WastinTime said:
True, you'd have to get his capital razed. Not much time on quick.
You'd have to either:
a) get an AI to do it
- Give an AI a ton of units near his capital, DoW that AI so Mansa will be at war with them too.

b) get him to break free from you and do the razing yourself.
You might be able to get him to break off if you gift him a ton of cities so he has enough land and/or population to be freed.

c) get him to DoW you
demand a bunch of stuff (but you probably need to increase is land and or power ratio first...not sure here)
Click to expand...

Oh ya, you can't gift cities to a vassal. :sad:

Probably not enough time to get an AI to do it.

Getting Mansa to DoW you by demanding a bunch of resources at the same time might work.
If I was doing it, I'd try to get Mansa even with power ratio with me first.
Trying to get a Vassal to DoW you is something that hasn't been studied too much to my knowledge, so I'm really not sure the best way to go about it. :sad:
I don't know for sure if power ratio, land %, population affects the resource refusal + DoW demand.

Let me check how long it takes a 1 Engine, 5 Casing Space Ship to reach Alpha Centauri on Quick Speed.

**Edit**
Ok, I've test it on World builder, and on Quick Speed with 1 Engine it takes 7 turns to win.
2 Engines make it so it requires 6 turns to win.

Unless Zbgayumn can somehow raze their vassal Mansa's capital before 7 turns passes, there is no way to get the Time Victory in 11 turns.
 
The one path I can think of is the Tribute Demand. I haven't demanded tribute from Mansa up to this point. Under what circumstances will he refuse and go to war with me? What factors into the decision? Power Ratio? Land Ratio?
Click to expand...
He needs to be annoyed (VassalRefuseAttitudeThreshold) or furious with you to even consider refusing your demand. You also can't be at war or have a defensive pact with someone else.

How much you have to demand from him depends on:

1. power ratio
2. how long you've known him
3. land target status
4. how much you've begged or demanded from him already.
 
Pollina said:
He needs to be annoyed (VassalRefuseAttitudeThreshold) or furious with you to even consider refusing your demand...
Click to expand...

Right, I'd forgotten about that. :goodjob:
Tachywaxon's thread indicates that a Cautious, Pleased, or Friendly Mansa will always give into a resource demand.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11988491&postcount=62

An accepted demand would also initiate a 10 turn peace treaty. :(

The best way to get Mansa Annoyed with the Human master civ before demanding resources?
Hrmm :hmm:

Does the player have any nukes?
And is Mansa Pleased or Friendly with the last remaining AI?
If so, DoWing the last AI and dropping nukes would give -2 diplo for every nuke for "nuking their friend".
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=159814

There isn't enough time to build up -10 "Your Spy was caught causing trouble" on Quick speed.

Honestly, I don't see a reasonable way to win this game.
A vassal launching a Space Ship on Quick Speed is a worst-case, nightmare scenario.

Since it is HoF game, we can't even ask to see the game directly either.
 
Thanks for the advice so far! My playing time is extremely limited these days, but hopefully today or tomorrow I can try everything available to make him Annoyed. If I can do that, I'll see what I can do to get the land and power ratios closer to even.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
 
Well, I guess it was just impossible.

I couldn't complete Step 1, which was to make Mansa annoyed. Even after canceling OB and switching out of Free Market, there were too many plus mods. I knocked him down from Friendly to Pleased, but that's it. :sad:

Now I know I can't allow ANY civ to research Fusion. I'm just not sure how I could've accomplished that in this game. Somewhere along the way, I probably should've razed some of Suleiman's core cities. The main reason I didn't was because I was already sitting at the edge of the Dom limit. Even letting Joao's borders expand when an Ottoman city was razed would've been risky.

Damn. What a waste. :cry:
 
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