The Iron Will and Positivity Thread

[jarred!]

There are plant proteins that are complete proteins, that is they contain the amino acids humans can't synthesize. Soy is an easy example, and some grains like quinoa are as well. You're right though, combining multiple protein sources is a great idea.
Thinking a vegan only eats beans as a protein source is a horrible stereotype.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Micronutrient deficiencies are a thing, even in western countries (see below). A lot of micronutrients come from vegetables. So yeah, vegetables are an important part of a diet beyond just fiber. If everyone got their fiber from other means, like metamucil, there would be huge health issues.

sorry, should have specified I was talking about first world countries when I said "the west", so not the US

but in all seriousness, thanks for this post. I was unaware that vitamin deficiencies were a thing in the US. it does make sense though, if you have a diet consisting of mostly processed foods

 

[yung.carl.jung]

There are plant proteins that are complete proteins, that is they contain the amino acids humans can't synthesize. Soy is an easy example, and some grains like quinoa are as well. You're right though, combining multiple protein sources is a great idea.
Thinking a vegan only eats beans as a protein source is a horrible stereotype.

combining multiple protein sources does something magical. it elevates the bioavailability of the proteins, meaning your body gets more out of your food.

this is also the reason why eating "whey powder" or somesuch is kinda dumb, because its bioavailability is terrible. however if you combine legumes, potatoes, egg, fish and cruciferous vegetables in one meal bioavailability will be through the roof

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Lots of weird info in this thread though- beer doesn't give you belly fat.

the "beer belly" is just a common myth, especially in Germany, while manboobs aren't. they're not a function of calories or fat, but of hops. however you are still wrong still about where your body deposits fat. fat cells are a thing, and they stick around for years:

https://scholar.google.de/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&q=fat+cells&btnG= if you want to give yourself a cursory overview.

fat cells essentially dictate the allocation of fat. they do not make you fat, because as you mention correctly how much weight you gain is (almost) exclusively a result of calories. but where it manifests is not. that is down to genetics and fat cells.

 

[MaryKB]

My weight gains usually hit me right in my hips and thighs.

 

[civvver]

the "beer belly" is just a common myth, especially in Germany, while manboobs aren't. they're not a function of calories or fat, but of hops. however you are still wrong still about where your body deposits fat. fat cells are a thing, and they stick around for years:

https://scholar.google.de/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&q=fat+cells&btnG= if you want to give yourself a cursory overview.

fat cells essentially dictate the allocation of fat. they do not make you fat, because as you mention correctly how much weight you gain is (almost) exclusively a result of calories. but where it manifests is not. that is down to genetics and fat cells.

Right, isn't that what I said? You can't control where your body puts fat, it just stores it wherever it wants to. So excess beer calories don't go to the belly while pizza calories go to the butt or whatever, which makes beer belly a misnomer.

My weight gains usually hit me right in my hips and thighs.

Women typically gain there while men retain more belly fat. You just have to lose fat overall to reduce it. Keep protein high, eat a slight calorie deficit and do some resistance training, any kind like body weight or free weights or machines or resistance bands, doesn't matter. But if you work your muscles for strength and feed them with protein it encourages your body to burn fat in a deficit so most of the weight you lose is fat.

There are plant proteins that are complete proteins, that is they contain the amino acids humans can't synthesize. Soy is an easy example, and some grains like quinoa are as well. You're right though, combining multiple protein sources is a great idea.
Thinking a vegan only eats beans as a protein source is a horrible stereotype.

Most plant proteins are incomplete. Of course vegetarians don't solely eat beans for protein, I wasn't trying to imply such, but a vegetarian probably needs a more varied diet than a meat eater.

What do you guys think about whole grains? I see a lot of articles talking about how westerners don't eat enough whole grains, but I have greatly reduced carbs as a means of calorie control. Not intentionally swearing off carbs, but when you keep protein high and calories low it's just a byproduct. Typical day for me is yogurt for breakfast, salad with vinaigrette and sardines, tuna, or grilled chicken breast or thighs for lunch. Only carbs are milk sugars. Dinner might have a hamburger bun or taco shell or tortilla or a small bit of pasta, but I almost never eat bread, cereal, oats or rice. I eat very little fruit too, more of a vegetable guy.

 

[Synobun]

What do you guys think about whole grains? I see a lot of articles talking about how westerners don't eat enough whole grains, but I have greatly reduced carbs as a means of calorie control.

I find it difficult to make them palatable. They often taste "off" to me.

Although that may be bias. I used to absolutely love Dave's Killer Bread and I bought like 10 loaves from the US a few years ago to stash in the freezer, but the freezer made it taste sour. I finished each loaf, dreading every bite. It was terrible. Haven't been able to eat it since.

 

[civvver]

I just don't really see the health benefits to whole grains. Can't you get the same benefits by eating vegetables? It's mostly for the fiber right?

 

[Synobun]

I just don't really see the health benefits to whole grains. Can't you get the same benefits by eating vegetables? It's mostly for the fiber right?

Fiber, and other vitamins/minerals. The theory, as far as I understand it, is that if you're going to be eating carb-heavy grains, you may as well eat whole grains and get the most bang for your buck (with the side effect of needing to eat less due to the fiber). Maximizing nutrient profiles can be important if you're health-conscious.

Don't know how well that parses to application, though. Even when I exclusively ate whole grains, I didn't notice an appreciable impact on appetite. Did make digestion a living hell though! (I realize I'm the exception to the rule here, as it's supposed to help digestion for normal people.)

 

[Ferocitus]

I've loved Michael Mosley's work since his (multi award-nominated) documentary on h. pylori and ulcers.
Maybe some of you will find inspiration from his scientific documentary Eat, Fast and Live Longer.

 

[MaryKB]

My nutritionist told me 100% Whole Wheat is much better than Whole Grain ... "whole grain" can meat a lot of things, but "whole wheat" is better for you. I find a lot of delicious whole wheat breads, and I like them much better than white bread. Sara Lee's 100% Whole Wheat bread is absolutely delightful. Aunt Millie also makes a lot of really good ones I like, especially for buns and English Muffins.

My breakfast is two slices of whole wheat bread toasted (but not buttered), with cheese and eggs. For lunch I vary it up, but I'm trying to get back to my 1/2 of a seedless cucumber. My dinner's been all over the place, but I rather enjoy having a whole wheat flatbread or pita with power greens and tomato vinaigrette. I eat "alternate proteins" from Beyond Meat and Gardein. I keep fresh and frozen fruit and vegetables, I'm especially partial to spinach, broccoli, green beans, sweet peas, asparagus, and peaches.

 

[BenitoChavez]

My nutritionist told me 100% Whole Wheat is much better than Whole Grain ... "whole grain" can meat a lot of things, but "whole wheat" is better for you.

Whole Wheat is a type of Whole Grain. Grain can be wheat, oats, barley or any number of other cereals. The most important part is that it is the it is labeled as 100% whole...whatever. Products that have the entire edible part of the plant contain more nutrients (vitamins, minerals, fiber, etc.) Labels such as "wheat" or "multigrain" are labels that may look healthy but may not contain the whole grain. White bread is definitely processed and doesn't contain the whole grain.

And a claim that a particular grain is better than others would be suspicious to me. If any grain is indeed better, it probably varies from individual to individual based on genetics, the rest of your diet, etc.

 

[Lexicus]

I've read that psuedocereals have more nutritious proteins than cereals do. Makes sense because I've also read elsewhere that quinoa (a pseudocereal) is actually quite a good source of protein.

 

[BenitoChavez]

I've read that psuedocereals have more nutritious proteins than cereals do. Makes sense because I've also read elsewhere that quinoa (a pseudocereal) is actually quite a good source of protein.

Sure, nutrient content does vary from (psuedo)cereal to (psuedo)cereal to grain and quinoa is on the higher end for protein. But if you look at the nutrition labels for oats or wheat, they have a comparable amount of protein as well. Is a 1-2g protein per serving variation really significant? I'd say it depends on if you get enough protein in the rest of your diet.

 

[Hygro]

@yung.carl.jung I don't know what weed is like in Germany but you've probably noticed that different strains produce vastly different outcomes. This is because of the very diverse psychoactive properties of various terpenes in the flower. Fruits and vegetables have vast quantities of different terpenes as well. Most of the effects are of course very much not psychoactive, but that does not make them inert. Far from it.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

@yung.carl.jung I don't know what weed is like in Germany but you've probably noticed that different strains produce vastly different outcomes. This is because of the very diverse psychoactive properties of various terpenes in the flower. Fruits and vegetables have vast quantities of different terpenes as well. Most of the effects are of course very much not psychoactive, but that does not make them inert. Far from it.

yeah, of course I'm aware. in fact I have been consciously mixing fruit and weed for maximum effect, especially Mango. since I'm very interested in the technical/biochemical aspects of flavor I've read up on terpenes and the amazing things they can do. I agree with everything you say in your post, maybe our misunderstanding came from a poor choice of words on my side.

I mean obviously the vitamins, micronutrients, terpenes, and even more importantly their respective ratios, are incredibly important and are what make vegetables "healthy", in principle. all I was trying to say is what made vegetables so healthy in comparison was that they're not mainly fat, sugar and carbs, like a significant part of the American (western) diet. and that it is often not lack of vitamins that should drive one to eat more vegetables, but rather abundance of all nutrients. after all vegetables, especially the non-starchy vegetables, are comparable very low in energy (calories) unlike bread, pasta, rice, desserts, fatty meat et cetera. and that I think is the number one important factor, that they're filling (not processed, contain fiber) and they don't spike your blood sugar (like simple carbs or sugar). compared to like 200 years ago where people desperately needed both calories and vitamins from vegetables in order to even survive. today you could theoretically drink nothing but soylent and eat barely anything and you'd be "okay". similiarly many people have a diet of almost nothing but carbs, meat and dairy, and would desperately need some veges. not because they lack vitamin c, but because they lack fiber and foods that don't give them diabetes. it wasn't about the inherent nutritional properties, it was more about what role vegetables need to fill in a western diet.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

I've loved Michael Mosley's work since his (multi award-nominated) documentary on h. pylori and ulcers.
Maybe some of you will find inspiration from his scientific documentary Eat, Fast and Live Longer.

I have personally done some fasting recently and liked it very much. Though almost all of my nutritional science friends aren't a big fan. They don't believe in detoxing (which I agree), and think fasting is potentially dangerous (which I also agree) and that it's worse of a weight loss tool than traditional calorie reduction (this debate has yet to be resolved).

also fasting and its effects on chronic disease and cancer have been researched very little, but seem incredibly promising. personally I like intermittent fasting or week long water fasts.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Right, isn't that what I said? You can't control where your body puts fat, it just stores it wherever it wants to. So excess beer calories don't go to the belly while pizza calories go to the butt or whatever, which makes beer belly a misnomer.



Women typically gain there while men retain more belly fat. You just have to lose fat overall to reduce it. Keep protein high, eat a slight calorie deficit and do some resistance training, any kind like body weight or free weights or machines or resistance bands, doesn't matter. But if you work your muscles for strength and feed them with protein it encourages your body to burn fat in a deficit so most of the weight you lose is fat.



Most plant proteins are incomplete. Of course vegetarians don't solely eat beans for protein, I wasn't trying to imply such, but a vegetarian probably needs a more varied diet than a meat eater.

What do you guys think about whole grains? I see a lot of articles talking about how westerners don't eat enough whole grains, but I have greatly reduced carbs as a means of calorie control. Not intentionally swearing off carbs, but when you keep protein high and calories low it's just a byproduct. Typical day for me is yogurt for breakfast, salad with vinaigrette and sardines, tuna, or grilled chicken breast or thighs for lunch. Only carbs are milk sugars. Dinner might have a hamburger bun or taco shell or tortilla or a small bit of pasta, but I almost never eat bread, cereal, oats or rice. I eat very little fruit too, more of a vegetable guy.

there is more to fat (and where you grow fat/where you don't) than meets the eye. every human being has fat cells, some more and some less. If you've ever been obese before, you probably have more fat cells in different parts of your body than other people do. these fat cells don't go away when you lose weight, rather they become latent. they can "fill up" again if you overeat again. here:

White fat cells or monovacuolar cells contain a large lipid droplet surrounded by a layer of cytoplasm. The nucleus is flattened and located on the periphery. A typical fat cell is 0.1 mm in diameter with some being twice that size and others half that size. The fat stored is in a semi-liquid state, and is composed primarily of triglycerides and cholesteryl ester. White fat cells secrete many proteins acting as adipokines such as resistin, adiponectin, leptin and apelin. An average human adult has 30 billion fat cells with a weight of 30 lbs or 13.5 kg. If excess weight is gained as an adult, fat cells increase in size about fourfold before dividing and increasing the absolute number of fat cells present.[2]

yes, beer belly is complete bullfeathers. it's a joke. on that we agree.

I just don't really see the health benefits to whole grains. Can't you get the same benefits by eating vegetables? It's mostly for the fiber right?

fiber and vitamins are nice, but not the biggest advantage of whole grains. its how the energy is deposited in your body. a good analogy would be fruit and juice. with fruits, the sugars are stored in fiber&water. they release slowly and don't spike your blood sugar or leave you hungry. with juice they release instantly, so juice from a hunger pov is just as bad as coca cola.

as for whole grains, it's pretty simple. in nutritional science they're divided between complex (e.g whole grains) and simple carbohydrates (e.g wheat flour), which in the end is the result of chemical composition. complex carbs have very long chains where the sugar is bound and therefore take much longer for the body to break down. so eating complex carbs doesn't spike your blood sugar as much. they release their energy very slowly, meaning you will be satured with energy for a longer time, compared to simple carbs. I do think that the overwhelming amount of simple carbohydrates in western diets is one of the biggest factors for obesity.

 

[Ferocitus]

I have personally done some fasting recently and liked it very much. Though almost all of my nutritional science friends aren't a big fan. They don't believe in detoxing (which I agree), and think fasting is potentially dangerous (which I also agree) and that it's worse of a weight loss tool than traditional calorie reduction (this debate has yet to be resolved).

also fasting and its effects on chronic disease and cancer have been researched very little, but seem incredibly promising. personally I like intermittent fasting or week long water fasts.

I'm away from home for another week, so I don't have access to my notes and references.
This is as good as I can do from Berlin on a rented laptop atm:
Intermittent Fasting and Human Metabolic Health,
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4516560/

 

[yung.carl.jung]

I'm waiting for a metastudy to be conducted, that should really shed some light on it