The Islamophobia split on the left.

[Old Hippy]

Of course when they drag women into the local stadium and leave their brains all over mid field that's okay because they're not Catholic, right?

Really, I'm a bit perpetually shocked how western women's groups like the howling mad lesbian ultra commie left aren't continually demanding that all Muslim men be shot in a stadium.

probably for the same reason howling mad ultra conservative women are not demanding all Muslim men be shot in a stadium, is my guess...

 

[classical_hero]

In some parts of the world religion has had to give up it's strangle hold on (alleged) morals and philosophy. In others it hasn't. Don;t think for one minute that if Christianity got back to the level of societal influence it had a century ago that your neighbours wouldn't be burning heretics in the street again. People don't change.

I dar you to find one scripture that commands the death of heretics by fire at the stake in the Bible. Compare that to the Koran where you can find numerous commands to kill unbelievers and behead them. The difference is that those Muslims who do violence are doing so according to their Scriptures, but those who use violence and call themselves Christ are doing so against the direct commands of their Scriptures

 

[Borachio]

probably for the same reason howling mad ultra conservative women are not demanding all Muslim men be shot in a stadium, is my guess

Wut? You think all women secretly respect the typical Muslim man for his sturdy stance on... everything?

 

[aelf]

Of course when they drag women into the local stadium and leave their brains all over mid field that's okay because they're not Catholic, right?

Really, I'm a bit perpetually shocked how western women's groups like the howling mad lesbian ultra commie left aren't continually demanding that all Muslim men be shot in a stadium.

Presumably because demanding the deaths of people, including lots of innocent people, many of whom you can't even reach, is something done by crazies such as yourself? Lefties generally tend to be saner.

How can they concentrate on trivial stuff like that when men are looking at them in the street without permission?

Don't leave the basement, mmkay? There are dangerous women out there who will harm you.

Moderator Action: Infraction for flaming.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Old Hippy]

Wut? You think all women secretly respect the typical Muslim man for his sturdy stance on... everything?

more like i suspect, women are as a gender are quite sensible and see nothing positive about shooting people in stadiums.
I only commented because I secretively just love the terms ''like the howling mad lesbian ultra commie left " and could not let it pass as if it was not said, it deserved recognition

especially the howling bit.

 

[illram]

While I have no love of Christianity the difference in moderates/extremists is that the Christians do not currently express support for the worst beliefs of the bible. eg stoning for adultery, even the extremists. This is due to the moderating influence of modernity, science, material well being, political stability cultural history, even in rural TX. OTOH this is a common view in the Muslim world. 81% favor in Egypt but also 48% in “Moderate” Indonesia. This is a significant difference. http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress...on-muslim-world-paints-a-distressing-picture/

If both religions have similar horrible practices in their holy scripture but followers of one religion believe in it more than the other, I'm curious why that leads you to the conclusion that this is something inherent in Islam, rather than other explanations. (Cultural, ethnic, economic, etc.) I mean you highlighted these reasons in your post. If those are all factors, why focus on how horrible you think Islam is? Is that the most productive thing to do as an outsider? Fan the flames of discontent?

Do you think it is possible for someone to be a Muslim and be what you would consider a moderate, liberal progressive person who believes in human rights and personal freedom?

 

[Darkflight]

I dar you to find one scripture that commands the death of heretics by fire at the stake in the Bible. Compare that to the Koran where you can find numerous commands to kill unbelievers and behead them. The difference is that those Muslims who do violence are doing so according to their Scriptures, but those who use violence and call themselves Christ are doing so against the direct commands of their Scriptures

Leviticus 24:10-16 for example.

 

[luiz]

If both religions have similar horrible practices in their holy scripture but followers of one religion believe in it more than the other, I'm curious why that leads you to the conclusion that this is something inherent in Islam, rather than other explanations. (Cultural, ethnic, economic, etc.) I mean you highlighted these reasons in your post. If those are all factors, why focus on how horrible you think Islam is? Is that the most productive thing to do as an outsider? Fan the flames of discontent?

Do you think it is possible for someone to be a Muslim and be what you would consider a moderate, liberal progressive person who believes in human rights and personal freedom?

The scriptures themselves are irrelevant. What matters are the doctrines derived from their interpretation.

 

[illram]

The scriptures themselves are irrelevant. What matters are the doctrines derived from their interpretation.

Right. I think figuring out why any given extreme interpretation is more popular in a given area amongst a certain population has more to do with issues other than the underlying religion itself.

 

[JollyRoger]

I dar you to find one scripture that commands the death of heretics by fire at the stake in the Bible. Compare that to the Koran where you can find numerous commands to kill unbelievers and behead them. The difference is that those Muslims who do violence are doing so according to their Scriptures, but those who use violence and call themselves Christ are doing so against the direct commands of their Scriptures

Given that David first cast rocks at Goliath and then beheaded him, I do not see all that much difference between the Abrahamic cults.

 

[Arakhor]

I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

I'm impressed. There actually is a theological justification for burning people at the stake.

Leviticus 24:10-16 for example.

Oh, you silly fool. Don't you know that Jesus' coming invalidates all the inconvenient bits of the Old Testament, whilst leaving all the useful stuff still in play?

 

[luiz]

Right. I think figuring out why any given extreme interpretation is more popular in a given area amongst a certain population has more to do with issues other than the underlying religion itself.

I think the issue at hand here is that mainstream Islam is "worse" than mainstream Christianity, from a human rights POV. And since a religion is nothing more than religious practice and tradition, it is not unfair to say that Islam is more harmful than Christianity.

 

[plarq]

There're two ways against Islam, the right-wing way is calling them foreign, infidel, non-white, etc. the left-wing way is calling them social conservative, anti-women, anti-gay and generally anti-modernism.

 

[Tahuti]

There're two ways against Islam, the right-wing way is calling them foreign, infidel, non-white, etc. the left-wing way is calling them social conservative, anti-women, anti-gay and generally anti-modernism.

I have always maintained Geert Wilders is more Left than Right, especially considering his support for the welfare state and his Left-wing based criticisms of Islam. Basically, he is an old-skool Social Democrat, more or less resembling the PvdA of the 1960s or its Anti-New Left, Old Left successor DS' 70.

 

[plarq]

I have always maintained Geert Wilders is more Left than Right, especially considering his support for the welfare state and his Left-wing based criticisms of Islam. Basically, he is an old-skool Social Democrat, more or less resembling the PvdA of the 1960s or its Anti-New Left, Old Left successor DS' 70.

Pim Fortuyn would be a better example, he IS gay to begin with...

 

[illram]

I think the issue at hand here is that mainstream Islam is "worse" than mainstream Christianity, from a human rights POV. And since a religion is nothing more than religious practice and tradition, it is not unfair to say that Islam is more harmful than Christianity.

But if we recognize there are multiple practices and traditions founded on various interpretations, and there are others who follow those more moderate interpretations, then I don't think it is true to say Islam is one thing, and that single thing is harmful. Obviously Islam is many things, if it is subject to many interpretations. So the more interesting (and productive) question then becomes, why is a more extremist interpretation currently more popular? And what can be done about it?

If the expression of the religion is the issue, why focus on the religion? Focus on the acts and the specific actors. Why are 80% of Egyptians OK with stoning? Why are 40% if Indonesians? Why would anyone in their right mind join ISIS? Is it just "Islam?' Is that a satisfactory or useful answer? Not to me.

So I think it is unfair to say "Islam" is more harmful than Christianity. Currently popular and extremist interpretations of Islam, that currently hold political and social power amongst certain populations, are absolutely a problem. For the sake of argument we could agree they are more objective harmful than, say, right wing extremist Christian groups in the United States who hold political power. (I say for the sake of argument on purpose, I think reasonable minds can differ there.) But "what is it about Islam" is the wrong question. What is it about the populations that are adopting a particularly harmful interpretation of it is the more productive question, to me.

 

[plarq]

Political ideas are vague, but society are real existence. I don't think it is easy to judge "Islam" as worse than "Christianity", however, if we pick out advanced countries in Islamic world and advanced countries in Christian/Western world, then yes, Islamic advances are not as good as western advances.

On an equal foot front comparison, let's try sub-Sahara Africa, now you see both religions have their ugly heads popping out. In Nigeria you see Jihadists, in Uganda you see Lord Salvation Army. Now that is a good example of the "equally evil" judgement on both religions. And certainly you can't prove that indigenous animalism is better than Abrahamic religions.

 

[CavLancer]

Presumably because demanding the deaths of people, including lots of innocent people, many of whom you can't even reach, is something done by crazies such as yourself? Lefties generally tend to be saner.





Don't leave the basement, mmkay? There are dangerous women out there who will harm you.

You are perhaps confusing me with the Muslims who sometimes murder and often mistreat women. I treat women with great respect. Every woman in my harem loves me dearly because of it.

<--- This winkie guy means I'm joking.

 

[CavLancer]

more like i suspect, women are as a gender are quite sensible and see nothing positive about shooting people in stadiums.
I only commented because I secretively just love the terms ''like the howling mad lesbian ultra commie left " and could not let it pass as if it was not said, it deserved recognition

especially the howling bit.

I am actually kinda proud of that. Thank you for the recognition of great literary accomplishment.

 

[Tahuti]

Pim Fortuyn would be a better example, he IS gay to begin with...

Pim Fortuyn's politics are more like a Eurosceptic and Anti-Immigrant version of D66.