The last challenge -- Team game -- Deity trial
- Thread starter Duckweed
- Start date
obsolete
Deity
It is a shame that despite all these + diplos on Toku's team, the idiots still dont like us enough to trade. If we can expect to finally get up to trading in the next 10 turns, then I think after trading for math we should go really hard on Music.
We can trade that to both Willem and Toku's team. Even if one of them gets it before us, we can still trade with the other, is it's still a wash.. If we can trade with both, that would be a very nice return. It's just a shame we don't have a free artist at the end of the tunnel now.
We can trade that to both Willem and Toku's team. Even if one of them gets it before us, we can still trade with the other, is it's still a wash.. If we can trade with both, that would be a very nice return. It's just a shame we don't have a free artist at the end of the tunnel now.
Turn 122
Whipped granary in Angel, let Vijay grow. Started a chariot in resource city. wine<->8g with Willem.
Turn 123
Hired a priest in Delhi to make the next GP 2 turns faster. Willem agreed on the math trade, set research 0% at Fishing. Confucian got spread in Bloody Hill and we voted for Monty/Ragnar.
Turn 124
2 pop whip settler in Vijay. Started settler in resource city. Deer tile got pillaged and the newborn chariot killed the barbarian axe. wine<->10g with Churchill.
Turn 125
3 pop whip settler in resource city
Turn 127
Academy in Vijay. Resumed 100% research. Ivory city settled.
Turn 129
Horse/Fish city settled -- aim to be draft city
Turn 131
CS in
Tech
Whipped granary in Angel, let Vijay grow. Started a chariot in resource city. wine<->8g with Willem.
Turn 123
Hired a priest in Delhi to make the next GP 2 turns faster. Willem agreed on the math trade, set research 0% at Fishing. Confucian got spread in Bloody Hill and we voted for Monty/Ragnar.
Turn 124
2 pop whip settler in Vijay. Started settler in resource city. Deer tile got pillaged and the newborn chariot killed the barbarian axe. wine<->10g with Churchill.
Turn 125
3 pop whip settler in resource city
Turn 127
Academy in Vijay. Resumed 100% research. Ivory city settled.
Turn 129
Horse/Fish city settled -- aim to be draft city
Turn 131
CS in
Tech
we can make a trade with Churchill now, MC + 430g is great, I think it is worthy of a temporary -1 diplomatic hit.
I still think we should make a steady pleased relation with Monty/Ragnar. The only benefit of keeping Willem/Churchill at cautious is to trade tech, which is going to annoy Monty/Ragnar afterward. Currently, Churchill or Willem's power is double than Ragnar (spotted an English SOD of ~50 units), so their team's power is probably 1.5 greater than Monty/Ragnar team. Without being pleased with Monty/Ragnar, we're very very likely to be their target soon. Safety is higher than everything else! Spam Hindu to Toku so that we can be safe to develop peacefully while taking the benefit of religion. I don't think losing a trade partner is important than DOWed risk.
There are a coastal site north among Monty/Ragnar/Churchill and a site on the northern edge between Churchill and Ragnar available for gifting. We need to hurry up before they are gone. Have not found a site beside Joao's border yet. The coming settler from Vijay is for Joao. A settler can be whipped from resource city next turn, plus the settler from Delhi can be sent to settle those 2 sites for Monty/Ragnar.
Note: I have not adopted bureo yet. Also remember to refresh the trade deal with Willem/Churchill in the next 2/3 turns. We just beg for peace from Joao and Ragnar in this set, so next time would be Toku and Monty if available.
Roster:
Duckweed -- just played
Obsolete -- UP
Bestsss -- On deck
Shyuhe
Dirk1302
The Rook -- tell when you are ready to roll.
I still think we should make a steady pleased relation with Monty/Ragnar. The only benefit of keeping Willem/Churchill at cautious is to trade tech, which is going to annoy Monty/Ragnar afterward. Currently, Churchill or Willem's power is double than Ragnar (spotted an English SOD of ~50 units), so their team's power is probably 1.5 greater than Monty/Ragnar team. Without being pleased with Monty/Ragnar, we're very very likely to be their target soon. Safety is higher than everything else! Spam Hindu to Toku so that we can be safe to develop peacefully while taking the benefit of religion. I don't think losing a trade partner is important than DOWed risk.
There are a coastal site north among Monty/Ragnar/Churchill and a site on the northern edge between Churchill and Ragnar available for gifting. We need to hurry up before they are gone. Have not found a site beside Joao's border yet. The coming settler from Vijay is for Joao. A settler can be whipped from resource city next turn, plus the settler from Delhi can be sent to settle those 2 sites for Monty/Ragnar.
Note: I have not adopted bureo yet. Also remember to refresh the trade deal with Willem/Churchill in the next 2/3 turns. We just beg for peace from Joao and Ragnar in this set, so next time would be Toku and Monty if available.
Roster:
Duckweed -- just played
Obsolete -- UP
Bestsss -- On deck
Shyuhe
Dirk1302
The Rook -- tell when you are ready to roll.
few things noticed:
The farm near ivory city will be taken by Ragnar's culture for sure, esp. if they build the Sistine (super-likely). Monty/Ragnar are after culture (funny indeed).
The next AP vote is 'very' soon, w/ 2 votes, we get +4. I think they will become pleased, even if we get -1 for trading w/ Willem.
Should cancel the deal w/ Monty (wheat for peace)
No one has paper, I think we can get it in 3 turns with the gold from the deal w/ Churchill.
The farm near ivory city will be taken by Ragnar's culture for sure, esp. if they build the Sistine (super-likely). Monty/Ragnar are after culture (funny indeed).
The next AP vote is 'very' soon, w/ 2 votes, we get +4. I think they will become pleased, even if we get -1 for trading w/ Willem.
Should cancel the deal w/ Monty (wheat for peace)
No one has paper, I think we can get it in 3 turns with the gold from the deal w/ Churchill.
^Not so sure, Monty/Ragnar have Music for ages, I doubt they will start it during war time. Joao/Toku got it for several turns already, so more likely they will get the Sistine.
Yes, I did not have the wheat demand in mind, should cancel and trade it for 5g with Ragnar.
Paper is good next.
Even with the AP relation boost, if we take too much trade with Willem/Churchill, we can't keep Monty/Ragnar at pleased. So gifting either city or tech is necessary finally.
Yes, I did not have the wheat demand in mind, should cancel and trade it for 5g with Ragnar.
Paper is good next.
Even with the AP relation boost, if we take too much trade with Willem/Churchill, we can't keep Monty/Ragnar at pleased. So gifting either city or tech is necessary finally.
as long as it doesn't benefit willem/churchill we won't get negative effects. it's possible to get the civic service deal w/o negatives by including sailing (which not so good)
i have to see how much resource deals (they are real gray matter) affect the worst enemy, they are more likely to add weight than money fit deals.
i have to see how much resource deals (they are real gray matter) affect the worst enemy, they are more likely to add weight than money fit deals.
obsolete
Deity
I don't mind MC because it allows us to bulb liberalism in an emergency. But you can never be certain that -1 is just temporarily. It is still luck-dependant as far as decay is concerned. You can often find it never dissappearing on normal speed, or I'm just the unluckiest player in the world again.
Dirk1302
Deity
WE trade is not luck dependent afaik. It's the sum of excess trade/time iirc. Luck decay is for things like refusing demands.
obsolete
Deity
I took a look at the save, so many things to mention, but I’ll leave the discussion regarding the settlers for now.
I was thinking, instead of rushing to the top north for settling our cities to gift, it may be best to rush the first settler to the desert hills spot. That way, if all else fails, at least we are guaranteed to get our +4 with Monte. And best of all, it’s a totally useless city spot. The only problem with this is it will add more border contact. What do you guys think on this?
As for getting a settler ready for Jaoa, all I have to say is…:
Get Real.
Joao is Exp, IMP. I have doubts that is going to happen. HOWEVER… there is a spot where we can gift a city to Toku, down in our south. I can place it just out of reach of our copper. It will have 0 resources, and be in a sh1ty brown tundra spot. No human would ever want it, but the AI may like it. In fact, he will probably like it a lot
Also.. I will have to get more settlers for ourselves I see. If we don’t hurry, we are going to lose that 4-flood plains spot in the middle of our territory. The spot is OPEN to Monte. Though I am puzzled on what we are going to do with it. Don’t most the cottage boys salvitate at floodplains? But I see we have a farm already in progress on it.
Also, I think we should squeeze in one more city for ourself in the south. We can borrow the irrigated wheat from RESOURCE-CITY, and use it to fuel our first and only silver, and also grab another beaver resource.
There is only one other silver resource, and it’s in our corner. However, it has 0 food, unless you want to count a couple farmed grassland tiles. But since maintenance functions grow exponentially, it is perhaps not worth it.
I was thinking, instead of rushing to the top north for settling our cities to gift, it may be best to rush the first settler to the desert hills spot. That way, if all else fails, at least we are guaranteed to get our +4 with Monte. And best of all, it’s a totally useless city spot. The only problem with this is it will add more border contact. What do you guys think on this?
As for getting a settler ready for Jaoa, all I have to say is…:
Get Real.
Joao is Exp, IMP. I have doubts that is going to happen. HOWEVER… there is a spot where we can gift a city to Toku, down in our south. I can place it just out of reach of our copper. It will have 0 resources, and be in a sh1ty brown tundra spot. No human would ever want it, but the AI may like it. In fact, he will probably like it a lot
Also.. I will have to get more settlers for ourselves I see. If we don’t hurry, we are going to lose that 4-flood plains spot in the middle of our territory. The spot is OPEN to Monte. Though I am puzzled on what we are going to do with it. Don’t most the cottage boys salvitate at floodplains? But I see we have a farm already in progress on it.
Also, I think we should squeeze in one more city for ourself in the south. We can borrow the irrigated wheat from RESOURCE-CITY, and use it to fuel our first and only silver, and also grab another beaver resource.
There is only one other silver resource, and it’s in our corner. However, it has 0 food, unless you want to count a couple farmed grassland tiles. But since maintenance functions grow exponentially, it is perhaps not worth it.
obsolete
Deity
As for our next tech, going after Paper is fine. But the question is, what then after this? And what kind of trades are we expecting at the end of Paper?
I think it’s best to trade CS for MC and gold. Screw the fishing. It’s 169b and we will lose lots of gold if we want fishing. Without that gold our paper is going to be slower.
As for spreading hindu missionaries to Toku, I really don’t like this. In fact, I hate it. I don’t want to waste all those hammers and time sending a billion of these into Toku’s lands, doing Monte all these favours, for something that MAY work out. And then we may have a problem on our hands where this starts opening up trades between the teams and then we can watch those bastards spiral away on us.
I think it’s best to trade CS for MC and gold. Screw the fishing. It’s 169b and we will lose lots of gold if we want fishing. Without that gold our paper is going to be slower.
As for spreading hindu missionaries to Toku, I really don’t like this. In fact, I hate it. I don’t want to waste all those hammers and time sending a billion of these into Toku’s lands, doing Monte all these favours, for something that MAY work out. And then we may have a problem on our hands where this starts opening up trades between the teams and then we can watch those bastards spiral away on us.
It's the resource distribution that determines whether there are spots left, but not how fast the leader spam settlers. There's very good chance there are spots left in edge area. This has been proved to be case in 3 edges already.
The bloody Hill city need farms and the FP where the worker is irrigating is needed for chain irrigation.
The FP site should be settled next, that's another reason one worker is irrigation now, the other spots can wait, we need a few workers next.
I also don't like produce missionaries for AI. However, we can used religious civic in a good way with spiritual trait, the gain is worthy of those hammer investment. Moreover, I don't like to see the OB between Joao/Toku and Willem/Churchill.
After Paper, Phi and sailing can be considered.
The desert hill site is very safe for quite a while, it greatly increases the close border tension and should be our last choice if the coastal site is gone.
The bloody Hill city need farms and the FP where the worker is irrigating is needed for chain irrigation.
The FP site should be settled next, that's another reason one worker is irrigation now, the other spots can wait, we need a few workers next.
I also don't like produce missionaries for AI. However, we can used religious civic in a good way with spiritual trait, the gain is worthy of those hammer investment. Moreover, I don't like to see the OB between Joao/Toku and Willem/Churchill.
After Paper, Phi and sailing can be considered.
The desert hill site is very safe for quite a while, it greatly increases the close border tension and should be our last choice if the coastal site is gone.
obsolete
Deity
If u are really anxious for getting missionaries to toku, then it may be best to right now trade CS to Churchill for MC AND OR, +280g. That way I can right now switch to Burea & OR and get missionaries out without spending the extra hammers and time on the monasteries.
shyuhe
Deity
Can't we just adopt Hinduism temporarily to bring Monty/Ragnar to pleased? That should cut down quite a bit on the threat of a dow. I don't think the others will drop to annoyed from it, and it'll avoid on WE hate from gifting cities.
We should send a missionary down to the fur barb city to pop its borders - it'd be nice to pick up the furs there.
We should send a missionary down to the fur barb city to pop its borders - it'd be nice to pick up the furs there.
I was missing last few days:
@shyuhe
fur city pops border in 2 turns.
I am not sure I like religion spreading at all. While monasteries are ok building, wasting hammers on missionaries is not cool. I think the only possible AP proposal here is diplo victory which is +2 diplo to monty/ragnar and they will become pleased at us. Also I think they have enough power (for the moment) to consider a suicidal war vs Churchill (he must be the power leader at the moment, though).
If we liberate city to Joao he will be friendly (but no team friendly but we can trade w/ friendly/cautious) w/ us i think, so it's good to check the edges of the map.
Get the deal w/ Churchill and switch to bureaucracy (just dont forget about
).
Tech: paper-edu; w/ a single bulb (w/ caste for 5-6 turns), trade maps for gold, and then paper for compass.
It's unlikely to get philosophy in trade, though. But I'd leave it after education and universities.
I think we have some chance at liberalism not great but an ok chance.
Lets move on
@shyuhe
fur city pops border in 2 turns.
I am not sure I like religion spreading at all. While monasteries are ok building, wasting hammers on missionaries is not cool. I think the only possible AP proposal here is diplo victory which is +2 diplo to monty/ragnar and they will become pleased at us. Also I think they have enough power (for the moment) to consider a suicidal war vs Churchill (he must be the power leader at the moment, though).
If we liberate city to Joao he will be friendly (but no team friendly but we can trade w/ friendly/cautious) w/ us i think, so it's good to check the edges of the map.
Get the deal w/ Churchill and switch to bureaucracy (just dont forget about
).Tech: paper-edu; w/ a single bulb (w/ caste for 5-6 turns), trade maps for gold, and then paper for compass.
It's unlikely to get philosophy in trade, though. But I'd leave it after education and universities.
I think we have some chance at liberalism not great but an ok chance.
Lets move on
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