The MeToo/TimesUp Movement Needs a New Face

[Berzerker]

Actress Rose McGowan was allegedly raped by Harvey Weinstein back in the 90's and she took $100k from him and proceeded to keep quiet for ~20 years. Just before the NYT published an article about Weinstein in 2017 McGowan was trying to get a million from him for her continued silence.

Now she has a book coming out (Brave) and another project while ripping into other actresses like her co-star from "Charmed", Alyssa Milano, and Meryl Streep for hypocrisy and lies.

Okay, McGowan took his money and kept quiet... But she's accusing all sorts of people of hypocrisy for their alleged silence and enabling Weinstein... Thats what she did, she kept quiet and enabled Weinstein. She has made herself the face of the movement even going so far as to portray herself as some hero.

Here's the deal:

In 2011, Rose McGowan starred in the B horror movie Rosewood Lane, a film that not many people remember. Rosewood Lane is an unsuspecting title in a long line of films she has been apart of throughout her career besides one tiny detail, Rosewood Lane was directed by convicted child molestor Victor Salva of Jeepers Creepers fame. In 1988, Victor Salva was convicted of the sexual molestation of a 12-year-old boy who just so happened to be an actor in one of his early films.

While I won’t go into the details of Salva’s sordid and disgusting past, I will point out the blatant hypocrisy in how Rose McGowan handled this situation. Besides being guilty of simply working with the man, which is troubling enough, Rose went on to defend the director during a press tour for the film. During a 2011 interview with Advocate Magazine, an LGBT news and entertainment outlet, Rose brought up some awkwardness she had felt on set after Salva told her he “didn’t relate to women well”.

The Advocate journalist went on to say “Well, Salva is registered sex offender, which might account for some awkwardness.” to which Rose replied “Yeah, I still don’t really understand the whole story or history there, and I’d rather not, because it’s not really my business. But he’s an incredibly sweet and gentle man, lovely to his crew, and a very hard worker”. This is where we come to a problematic impasse with Rose McGowan, an actress who was undoubtedly the victim of a horrific assault, but also a cog in the very machine of which she has become the poster child of criticizing.

She said it was none of her business her director raped a 12 year old boy...

https://medium.com/codyngore/the-problem-with-rose-mcgowan-f5b5ae837894

Thats too bad, I liked the first 2 Creeper movies... And apparently one of the actors from "That 70s Show" has been accused of rape and comedy central is running repeats of his show in place of South Park's repeat spot. Ugh... I started a similar thread a while back and at the time didn't know about the Creeper's director and his relationship to Rose. We have people working with Woody Allen and Roman Polanski too and they're child molesters and I like some of their movies.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

So who do you think should take her place as the "face" of this movement?

 

[Lemon Merchant]

Sorry, but Rose McGowan is (speaking colloquially) completely insane. Nothing, and I mean nothing makes her happy about the movement that she apparently is responsible for. She has attacked almost everyone who has supported the movement thus far, labeling them hypocrites and enablers, and gone out of her way to alienate those who would support her. I have no idea what she is trying to prove here, but the whole #metoo thing is becoming a farce, and she's partly responsible.

 

[Berzerker]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-shouted-f----boat-claims-Dennis-Davern.html

in other celebrity news, Robert Wagner is under scrutiny after the boat captain's story has changed

Wagner and Walken say she was drunk and fell into the water during the night and drowned because she couldn't swim. If I'm gonna spend time on a boat, I'm learning to swim. It takes 5 minutes! Oh well. Learn how to swim, folks. Its easy and one of the best exercises.

 

[Berzerker]

So who do you think should take her place as the "face" of this movement?

Maybe no face... the faceless woman. Shouldn't be a celebrity, especially not a hypocrite like Rose. I know she's mad but she lives in a glass house when it comes to enabling. Time had a cover with 4 women a while back, I cant remember who, maybe thats the way it should be - it could be any woman, not just a pretty actress.

 

[civvver]

I only know who rose mcgowan is because of this. Sure I've heard of charmed, but would only be able to pick alyssa milano out of a lineup. I'm not saying this is good or bad or minimizing the victims.

My point is I think the faces of this movement are not the victims but the perpetrators. I know who harvey weinstein is even if I wouldn't have known his photo until this news. I know who matt lauer is. I know who james franco is. I know who kevin spacey is. I know that 70s show and the ranch show. I know who louis ck is. I think it's more revealing to show all these powerful people who are committing the crimes than to point out the victims. Shows that the system is really broken and protects these people.

 

[Berzerker]

True, whenever I see Harvey Weinstein's mug I'm thinking about all the women he abused, not just one face.

 

[Tahuti]

Sorry, but Rose McGowan is completely insane. Nothing, and I mean nothing makes her happy about the movement that she apparently is responsible for. She has attacked almost everyone who has supported the movement thus far, labeling them hypocrites and enablers, and gone out of her way to alienate those who would support her. I have no idea what she is trying to prove here, but the whole #metoo thing is becoming a farce, and she's partly responsible.

https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/delusion+of+persecution

 

[Lemon Merchant]

https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/delusion+of+persecution

I go by the DSM-IV. It would be irresponsible to comment on her mental state or suggest a diagnosis without at least some discussion with her. However, she doesn't seem to be affected by paranoid schizophrenia by her outward public behaviour so a delusional disorder is doubtful at this time. In all, I think she's probably mentally healthy. She's just throwing a tantrum for the attention.

 

[Tahuti]

I go by the DSM-IV. It would be irresponsible to comment on her mental state or suggest a diagnosis without at least some discussion with her. However, she doesn't seem to be affected by paranoid schizophrenia by her outward public behaviour so a delusional disorder is doubtful at this time. In all, I think she's probably mentally healthy. She's just throwing a tantrum for the attention.

First of all, it wasn't intended as an insult towards Rose McGowan, as I definitely can say #MeToo when it comes to psychotic experiences.

Psychotic delusions come in all sorts and shapes. Some may be outwardly unnoticable, and people may appear like *****es and dicks even though they actually don't meant harm. While voice hearing and visual apparitions are common to those experiencing psychosis, you don't need to experience them to be psychotic. Having trouble in social cognition (causing you to say crazy stuff, because you believe you totally know what is going on even though you are not) and paranoid delusions (like feeling being raped by someone you had consented to have sex with, feeling threatened for no decent reason) are valid reasons to suspect psychosis.

To some extent, psychosis is evolutionary adaptive: It makes the world appear crazy so you can figure out to run for cover.

 

[Lexicus]

The idea that there is or should be a celebrity "face" of the movement is silly. And reinforces the harmful dynamic where the struggles of low-paid women (mostly of color) in low-prestige occupations are largely ignored.

 

[metalhead]

The idea that there is or should be a celebrity "face" of the movement is silly. And reinforces the harmful dynamic where the struggles of low-paid women (mostly of color) in low-prestige occupations are largely ignored.

Yeah, the premise of this thread is bizarre. Popular media have actually taken a surprising amount of care not to put one face on the movement. Rose McGowan's complicated past as it pertains to these issues is nothing more than a sideshow.

 

[Lexicus]

I only heard of Rose McGowan for the first time like three months ago
My experience of the #metoo 'movement' (I actually kind of hate using that term for it) hasn't centered on celebrities but mostly on the women in my life, sharing on social media and in meatspace. I don't see how anything Rose McGowan does should reflect on them.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

First of all, it wasn't intended as an insult towards Rose McGowan, as I definitely can say #MeToo when it comes to psychotic experiences.

Psychotic delusions come in all sorts and shapes. Some may be outwardly unnoticable, and people may appear like *****es and dicks even though they actually don't meant harm. While voice hearing and visual apparitions are common to those experiencing psychosis, you don't need to experience them to be psychotic. Having trouble in social cognition (causing you to say crazy stuff, because you believe you totally know what is going on even though you are not) and paranoid delusions (like feeling being raped by someone you had consented to have sex with, feeling threatened for no decent reason) are valid reasons to suspect psychosis.

To some extent, psychosis is evolutionary adaptive: It makes the world appear crazy so you can figure out to run for cover.

I am more than perfectly aware of the symptoms of both delusional thinking, as well as psychosis. Unless you are a trained mental health professional and have interviewed Ms. McGowan at length, you can only guess at her mental state. It is not only improper to guess, but unethical to do so. That is the point I was trying to make.

In addition, when I said she was insane earlier, I was using the colloquial sense of the word. I do not believe that she is under any mental duress at all. I believe she is suffering from a prolonged temper tantrum.

 

[Synobun]

I don't see an actionable ethical difference between "she might be mentally ill, I dunno" and "she's just being a big baby lol". Both seem like judgements, the latter of which is explicitly negative and the former of which only has the biases present in the reader's mind. I certainly attach less negative judgement and stigma to the possibility of mental illness than I do to the judgement that a grown adult is acting like a toddler.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

Suggesting that someone is mentally ill on a forum without due process is not a good thing, and even then, there are medical ethics rules which keep some people from even saying that sort of thing in public. Suggesting that someone is behaving badly is simply an observation.

 

[stinkubus]

Yeah, the premise of this thread is bizarre.

I thought the premise was fairly straight forward concern trolling.

 

[Synobun]

The rules for a licensed psychiatrist don't apply to Joe Blow on the street/forum.

But in general I find that logic collapses fairly quickly. Much of mental illness diagnosing is dependent on observation. Relying on "simply an observation" as a defense for why one behaviour is ethical and one isn't falls short of the mark when both behaviours utilize that.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

I only know who rose mcgowan is because of this. Sure I've heard of charmed, but would only be able to pick alyssa milano out of a lineup. I'm not saying this is good or bad or minimizing the victims.

My point is I think the faces of this movement are not the victims but the perpetrators. I know who harvey weinstein is even if I wouldn't have known his photo until this news. I know who matt lauer is. I know who james franco is. I know who kevin spacey is. I know that 70s show and the ranch show. I know who louis ck is. I think it's more revealing to show all these powerful people who are committing the crimes than to point out the victims. Shows that the system is really broken and protects these people.

I think fame is in the eye of the beholder. For example, before all this stuff I had heard of Rose McGowan, but I'd not heard of Harvey Weinstein, Matt Lauer or James Franco. In fact I hadn't even heard of that latter two until I read your post, and still only know them as "two names civver mentioned in a post recently".

 

[Narz]

Suggesting that someone is mentally ill on a forum without due process is not a good thing, and even then, there are medical ethics rules which keep some people from even saying that sort of thing in public. Suggesting that someone is behaving badly is simply an observation.

You have way more faith than me in psychiatry. I could probably get any diagnosis I wanted from a shrink with maybe a week or two of training. It's not like testing for diabetes. Mental health or illness is subjective and the criteria is rather arbitrary and vague (hence half the male population under 10 has ADD).