The MeToo/TimesUp Movement Needs a New Face

[Lemon Merchant]

You have way more faith than me in psychiatry.

I have to have faith in it. Requirement for my job.

 

[Kyriakos]

I only heard of Rose McGowan for the first time like three months ago
My experience of the #metoo 'movement' (I actually kind of hate using that term for it) hasn't centered on celebrities but mostly on the women in my life, sharing on social media and in meatspace. I don't see how anything Rose McGowan does should reflect on them.

meatspace

hm...
Not the most feminist of freudian slips.

 

[Disgustipated]

Wow, didn't think this thread would turn into an attack on Rose Mcgowan. Talk about victim blaming. Sheesh. I won't comment on her mental state, but she was egaged to Marylin Manson at one time. Seriously though, it's not our place to judge her.

I agree she's not the best spokeperson for the movement, but it's not my call, and it's not my movement. As a man, I know I'm the bad guy of the movement, so I just try to keep my mouth shut.

 

[Berzerker]

Nobody blamed her for getting raped, just for what she did afterwards - take money, keep quiet, then raise bloody hell about enablers who allegedly kept quiet

 

[civvver]

I think fame is in the eye of the beholder. For example, before all this stuff I had heard of Rose McGowan, but I'd not heard of Harvey Weinstein, Matt Lauer or James Franco. In fact I hadn't even heard of that latter two until I read your post, and still only know them as "two names civver mentioned in a post recently".

Really? You never saw any james franco movies? His imdb page is almost 150 titles. You probably have seen a bunch but just not known his name.

 

[Tahuti]

Unless you are a trained mental health professional and have interviewed Ms. McGowan at length, you can only guess at her mental state. It is not only improper to guess, but unethical to do so.

I personally find it unethical to grant an intellectual monopoly to psychiatric professionals regarding psychiatry. That is to say, anyone can do preliminary diagnosis; psychiatrists are paid to do it and are responsible for treating it. I am not. I cannot treat people with mental disorders, but I can - provided I do have the best interests of myself or the person affected at heart - respectfully hint a person may have a psychiatric disorder in the right context.

Suggesting that someone is mentally ill on a forum without due process is not a good thing.

As if being mentally ill is a crime.

 

[Senethro]

Nobody blamed her for getting raped, just for what she did afterwards - take money, keep quiet, then raise bloody hell about enablers who allegedly kept quiet

Why are you so bitter about this that its the 3rd thread you make on the subject? Given the justice systems inadequacy in rape cases then why shouldn't a victim take what they can, if thats what they want.

Besides, $100k is a form of intimidation itself. Alongside possible legal harassment, actual harassment by private security firms, it is a reminder of the power of the criminal and the options they have available to them.

Why does your attitude bother me? You seem have greater expectations of the behaviour of victims than rapists. Its like the rapist is a bad person so you have no expectations of them, while a "true" victim must be sufficiently morally pure. Its an attitude that is sort of adjacent to "Why didn't you put up a fight?" or "Are you sure you didn't lead him on with the way you were dressed?". If a victim doesn't jump sufficiently high for Mr Berzerker then they are unworthy.

 

[Berzerker]

Why are you so bitter about this that its the 3rd thread you make on the subject?

The first thread was about Alec Baldwin coming under fire, I dont remember a 3rd... This one was inspired by McGowan's recent attacks on Meryl Streep whom I admire and my discovery of McGowan's defense of a convicted pedophile.

Given the justice systems inadequacy in rape cases then why shouldn't a victim take what they can, if thats what they want.

Then dont take their money and keep quiet while complaining about others enabling rapists with silence.

Why does your attitude bother me?

So you're bitter?

You seem have greater expectations of the behaviour of victims than rapists. Its like the rapist is a bad person so you have no expectations of them, while a "true" victim must be sufficiently morally pure. Its an attitude that is sort of adjacent to "Why didn't you put up a fight?" or "Are you sure you didn't lead him on with the way you were dressed?". If a victim doesn't jump sufficiently high for Mr Berzerker then they are unworthy.

You just quoted me and you're gonna replace it with that straw man?

Nobody blamed her for getting raped, just for what she did afterwards - take money, keep quiet, then raise bloody hell about enablers who allegedly kept quiet

Do you see anything in there blaming her for being raped? I'm criticizing her for hypocrisy, not being a rape victim.

 

[Kyriakos]

The main issue isn't that POS Weinstein, but that (obviously) many people knew about this and said nothing -- and i don't mean the victims.

 

[Berzerker]

Some of the victims kept quiet and they knew better than anyone, like McGowan... I imagine Weinstein's more recent victims cant be too happy with them either. They took money and he remained undeterred by their silence, so more women were raped. Thx Rose for warning people about Weinstein

 

[Senethro]

Some of the victims kept quiet and they knew better than anyone, like McGowan... I imagine Weinstein's more recent victims cant be too happy with them either. They took money and he remained undeterred by their silence, so more women were raped. Thx Rose for warning people about Weinstein

This post is so stupid. It should be beneath you. You don't seem to hold Weinstein as being capable of acting morally and so expect others to place signage about him like hes a hazard like a wet floor or low ceiling. Lets not forget that he actively worked and spent considerable resources on covering up his crimes. He was continually involved and continually acting wrongly - his actions do not end at the rape.

Shifting blame from current victim to previous victim is not an enlightened attitude. There is not a Secret Victims Club that they get to join with informational newsletters. While some people were aware of a reputation, others thought they were the first and only victim, others thought they were the last and that they had secured improved future behaviour. They do not have the perfect information that you do through your hindsight, you judgemental jerk.

Additionally, many victims across many locations and decades indicates systemic failings. Noone felt sufficiently protected and served by the law enforcement and justice systems. Noone wanted to headon challenge the power over people that money grants in America. But thats everyones problem, not a name and a face you can blame.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Really? You never saw any james franco movies? His imdb page is almost 150 titles. You probably have seen a bunch but just not known his name.

Well even if I have, I don't know the name, so I'd say that counts as not having heard of him. Also I don't watch all that many films so it's entirely possible I've not seen any.

Edit: well I had a look. Most of it is hardly A list stuff. But I recognised his face and I've seen a couple of the Spider-Man films, so that's probably why. Honestly don't think I've seen (or even recognise the name of) all the rest of it.

 

[metalhead]

There's really no excuse for not having seen Freaks & Geeks though.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Weinstein hired ex-Massod agents to target his victims in various ways - and that's just a tiny fraction of the horrible coverup that we know of. It's really off-base to blame the victims.

 

[metalhead]

Victims are frequently intimidated and threatened into taking piddling settlements from powerful people who abuse them. Happens all the time. To denigrate someone and cast blame on them for taking a settlement under those circumstances is just total garbage.

 

[warpus]

I know I'm the bad guy of the movement

If you treat women in a sexist manner then there's obvious steps you can take to stop being that "bad guy".

 

[Berzerker]

Kathleen Parker of the Washington Post said she went into the wrong business after being told a manicurist got 7.5 million from Steve Wynn for sexual assault. She's gonna get it for that one.

This post is so stupid. It should be beneath you. You don't seem to hold Weinstein as being capable of acting morally and so expect others to place signage about him like hes a hazard like a wet floor or low ceiling. Lets not forget that he actively worked and spent considerable resources on covering up his crimes. He was continually involved and continually acting wrongly - his actions do not end at the rape.

My threads on the subject argued Weinstein's a rapist who deserves to be in jail, now you have me absolving him of his crimes? Hey, I can see you down there. And the reason we can be thankful for his demise is women spoke up. Well, not Rose. While other women were exposing him, Rose was trying to get more money to keep quiet. How can I forget he tried to cover his tracks, I've been explaining how Rose took his money and kept quiet for 20 years. She is blaming people for their silence, she's mad about the silence that enabled Weinstein. Yeah...[looks at Rose].

Shifting blame from current victim to previous victim is not an enlightened attitude.

When did I blame current victims? I said current victims cant be too happy about prior victims like Rose taking hush money. Maybe thats partly why she's angry at others, nobody warned her about the hazard.

There is not a Secret Victims Club that they get to join with informational newsletters.

I didn't say they should keep it secret, they could have gone to the police, filed lawsuits, speak out, etc. Do something to warn others. Be that informational newsletter.

While some people were aware of a reputation, others thought they were the first and only victim, others thought they were the last and that they had secured improved future behaviour. They do not have the perfect information that you do through your hindsight, you judgemental jerk.

Thanks for the lesson in not judging... I'm not criticizing Rose McGowan for not having perfect information, I'm criticizing her for accusing others of enabling Weinstein while she took his money and kept quiet. Why cant you see the hypocrisy in that? If you were a rape victim from 30 years ago, how would you feel about justice waiting 30 years (or forever) when you could have expedited it preventing future victims? If I saw a hazard and silently watched as other people fell victim, should I feel justified because my silence was bought? Thats the price of enabling.

Weinstein hired ex-Massod agents to target his victims in various ways - and that's just a tiny fraction of the horrible coverup that we know of. It's really off-base to blame the victims.

You mean victim. Rose is the only victim I see out there attacking celebrities for their silence. She's right, the people who knew and kept quiet are fractions of the horrible coverup. But if the victims dont come forward, can McGowan really blame the people who sorta mighta coulda heard a rumor? What are they supposed to do? File a police report?

 

[Berzerker]

Victims are frequently intimidated and threatened into taking piddling settlements from powerful people who abuse them. Happens all the time. To denigrate someone and cast blame on them for taking a settlement under those circumstances is just total garbage.

I'm not denigrating anyone, I'm accusing Rose McGowan of hypocrisy. If you took hush money from a criminal, you aint got no moral high ground to blame others for being hushed. Thats kinda what Jesus was talking about when he shamed the men who sought to stone a woman to death. Rose is figuratively stoning people from her glass house.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

There's really no excuse for not having seen Freaks & Geeks though.

Never heard of it. Not interested.

Edit: Okay, looked it up and wow... a 12 episode teen comedy drama TV series from the late 90s... and there's no excuse for not having seen that?! It's hardly Citizen Kane is it. It might not even have been aired over here for all I know. Even less interested than before I looked it up now.

 

[Tahuti]

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/harvey-weinsteins-army-of-spies

In the fall of 2016, Harvey Weinstein set out to suppress allegations that he had sexually harassed or assaulted numerous women. He began to hire private security agencies to collect information on the women and the journalists trying to expose the allegations. According to dozens of pages of documents, and seven people directly involved in the effort, the firms that Weinstein hired included Kroll, which is one of the world’s largest corporate-intelligence companies, and Black Cube, an enterprise run largely by former officers of Mossad and other Israeli intelligence agencies. Black Cube, which has branches in Tel Aviv, London, and Paris, offers its clients the skills of operatives “highly experienced and trained in Israel’s elite military and governmental intelligence units,” according to its literature.