The Official Perfection KOs Creationism Thread Part Two: The Empiricists Strike Back!

[Erik Mesoy]

yes really

(infamous internet meme)

 

[The Last Conformist]

not really

That's gotta be the lamest retort ever.

Don't like my accusations? Disprove 'em.

 

[Dr Tiny]

A handy article on bird lung evolution
http://www.evolutionpages.com/bird_lung.htm

 

[ironduck]

not really

So have you figured out my question yet? Or do I need to repeat it?

 

[ironduck]

To all the creationists out there:

Can you tell us something about the Nephilim? Apparently they were giants and humans seemed like grasshoppers in comparison. Is there any evidence that they existed, say, fossils?

 

[ironduck]

A handy article on bird lung evolution
http://www.evolutionpages.com/bird_lung.htm

Thanks for posting - good follow through links on it too!

 

[Sidhe]

To all the creationists out there:

Can you tell us something about the Nephilim? Apparently they were giants and humans seemed like grasshoppers in comparison. Is there any evidence that they existed, say, fossils?

I'm not a creationist but the Nephelim are half breeds of angels and men, tall and somewhat corrupted, they were eventually brought down by a heavenly induced civil war that lead to their anihilation.

I'm afraid my source of information is from a Tomb Raider game though so how reliable it is is anyones guess

I rememember seeing an immensley long bone that was touted as a nephilim bone once, but I suspect it was just a femur from a larger animal. There is no evidence for a race of giants existing on Earth.

Nephilim are prepostorous mythology anyway, everyone knows angels are sexless

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Ok, here's a question for you to answer:

When the FSM zorgates a conubombulom does that inratiate the lower zercon?

Please, just work it out for yourself!

See, now I am curious. Does that really mean anything? It sounds like it might.

 

[sanabas]

See, now I am curious. Does that really mean anything? It sounds like it might.

It's just like the technobabble in Star Trek scripts. Sounds vaguely authentic, but it's just gibberish.

What's wrong with asking for definitions diablodelmar? We can work out our own, but if the definition I use for reptile or for information or for dinosaur in what you posted is different to yours, I get a very different interpretation. i.e. You're talking rubbish. So tell us your definitions, and we'll either patiently explain why that definition doesn't make sense, or why the definition is fine, but the conclusion you've jumped to is wrong.

If you want to learn stuff and/or argue about stuff, do it properly.

 

[Che Guava]

To all the creationists out there:

Can you tell us something about the Nephilim? Apparently they were giants and humans seemed like grasshoppers in comparison. Is there any evidence that they existed, say, fossils?

Not a creationist, but I was able to come up with this:

"The Nefilim were upon the Earth in those days and thereafter too. Those sons of the gods who cohabited with the daughters of the Adam, and they bore children into them. They were the Mighty Ones of Eternity, the People of the Shem."
- Genesis 6:4

"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they; bare children unto them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."
- Genesis 6:4 (King Jame's version)

souce

From what I gather, they were supposed to be fallen angels that lived on earth before the greast flood, and might have thier origins in pre-judaic hebrew mysticism.

As for fossils, you can find some info on this rather dubious website...

An alternate theory (that Nephilim were actually early homonids, possibly neaderthals) can be found halfway through this page, although I didn't find it terribly convincing at first glance...

 

[ironduck]

Eran, sanabas is right I just used funny words that only make sense to me (plus, I added the FSM which everyone should know is the Flying Spaghetti Monster).

I am aware of the two bible verses that mention the Nephilim, but I was just wondering what the actual creationists in here think of them.. the reference to them is so obscure that it's the kind of thing that is always overlooked in mainstream christianity.

The other verse is in Numbers 13:31-33:

31 But the men who had gone up with him said, "We can't attack those people; they are stronger than we are." 32 And they spread among the Israelites a bad report about the land they had explored. They said, "The land we explored devours those living in it. All the people we saw there are of great size. 33 We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them."

(edited to include more context)

 

[Perfection]

Stop asking me for definitions ok and just work it out for yourself!

How can we work out trying to understand what you are saying without asking you for clarifications?

 

[El_Machinae]

How were there Nephilim before and after the Flood?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

How were there Nephilim before and after the Flood?

Duh . . . They were so tall that they could just stand there and the water only went up to their necks. Don't you know anything?

 

[ironduck]

How were there Nephilim before and after the Flood?

That's one of the things I was going to ask a creationist. Unfortunately the only creationists here now are ybbor and diablodelmar, none of which care to answer a single question related to creationism.

 

[Sidhe]

Genesis 6:4 states "The Nephilim were on the earth in those days --and also afterwards-- when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown." The Nephilim were a race of giants that were produced by the sexual union of the sons of God (presumably fallen angels) and the daughters of men. Translated from the Hebrew texts, "Nephilim" means "fallen ones." They were renowned for their strength, prowess, and a great capacity for sinfulness.

The origination of the Nephilim begins with a story of the fallen angels. Shemhazai, an angel of high rank, led a sect of angels in a descent to earth to instruct humans in righteousness. The tutelage went on for a few centuries, but soon the angels pined for the human females. After lusting, the fallen angels instructed the women in magic and conjuring, mated with them, and produced hybrid offspring: the Nephilim.

The Nephilim were gigantic in stature. Their strength was prodigious and their appetites immense. Upon devouring all of humankind's resources, they began to consume humans themselves. The Nephilim attacked and oppressed humans and were the cause of massive destruction on the earth.

Two texts of central import to the story of the Nephilim, the Bible and the Dead Sea Scrolls, mention several names for the Nephilim. The diverse kinds of these giants are cited in several passages. They are variously referred to as Emim, or "Terrors" (Gen. 14:5; Deut. 2:10), Rephaim, or "Weakeners" or "Dead Ones" (2 Sam. 23:13; 1 Chron. 11:15), Gibborim, or "Giant Heroes" (Job 16:4), Zamzummim, or "Achievers" (Deut. 2:10), Anakim, or "Long-necked" (Deut. 2:10; Josh. 11:22, 14:15), and Awwim or "Devastators" and "Serpents." Other giants are mentioned in these texts as well, such as Goliath (2 Sam. 21:19), a giant with twelve fingers and twelve toes who is mentioned as one of the Rephaim (2 Sam. 21:20), and a tall Egyptian (1 Chron. 11:23). The passage of Numbers 13:26-33 recounts the Nephilim of Canaan that Joshua and the other Hebrew spies saw. Furthermore, according to Judaic lore, a certain one of the Nephilim, Arba, built a city, Kiriath Arba, which was named for its builder and is now known as Hebron.

The wickedness of the Nephilim carried with it a heavy toll. Genesis 6:5 alludes to the corruption that the Nephilim had caused amongst humans and themselves: "The Lord saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become..." Their evil rebellion had incurred both the wrath and grief of God. God instructed the angel Gabriel to ignite a civil war among the Nephilim. He also chose Enoch, a righteous man, to inform the fallen angels of the judgment pronounced on them and their children. God did not allow the fallen angels any peace, for they could not lift their eyes to heaven and were later to be chained. The end of the Nephilim came about in the war incited by Gabriel, in which the giants eventually annihilated each other.

I don't see what answer your expecting here though? Are the Nephilim preposterous, well only if you find Angels and Giant men preposterous? Are they some sort of advanced race? To me it sounds like ghost stories to scare children, Who knows? It's a little far fetched though even for the Bible

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

I don't see what answer your expecting here though? Are the Nephilim preposterous, well only if you find Angels and Giant men preposterous? Are they some sort of advanced race? To me it sounds like ghost stories to scare children? Who knows, it's a little far fetched though even for the Bible

It's not that farfetched. Remember, some people have been making fun of the Bible because it speaks of giants, then when H. Florensis was found they acted as though it disproved the Bible. Giant men are within the realm of possibility.

 

[Perfection]

It's not that farfetched. Remember, some people have been making fun of the Bible because it speaks of giants, then when H. Florensis was found they acted as though it disproved the Bible. Giant men are within the realm of possibility.

Not really, sure men could be a bit taller, but on the size the bible seems to be implying it would be impossible to maintain structural integrity in the bones and the cardiovascular system would be extremely taxed. It's fair to say that such a creature could not exist.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Not really, sure men could be a bit taller, but on the size the bible seems to be implying it would be impossible to maintain structural integrity in the bones and the cardiovascular system would be extremely taxed. It's fair to say that such a creature could not exist.

I realize that, but a few extra feet could happen, enough that if you saw one of them pretty soon you would be talking around the campfire about the 100 foot tall people you saw. I don't really think they existed either, not in a literal sense, but "giants" in one sense of the word are possible.

 

[The Last Conformist]

From what I gather, they were supposed to be fallen angels that lived on earth before the greast flood, and might have thier origins in pre-judaic hebrew mysticism.

According to Genesis, they're the offspring of the sons of God and human women, not fallen angels.

The Genesis passage is presumably a snippet of a Hebrew mythology older than that reflected in most of the Pentateuch, in which Yahweh was more like your standard ancient mid-east deity.

The mother of these sons may have been Asherah, a godess who is associated with Yahweh in some ancient inscriptions.