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The Official Perfection KOs Creationism Thread Part Two: The Empiricists Strike Back!

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Perfection, Feb 23, 2006.

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  1. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Well, other bacteria have more room to breed, and thus natural selection has more to work with. The mitochondria in my cells get worse off over time - in fact, mitochondrial aging is implicated in actual aging.

    There's only room for a couple hundred mitochondria in a cell, even in a gamete. So there's only room for a few hundred to undergo natural selection to maintain their health. Since the female gametes degrade over time, why aren't the degredations cummulative?

    You'll note that the Bible has a good answer to the question (mitos were better then, and they are degrading). Gradual mt degredation fits the bible theory.

    Yeah, it's rare. But I included the information up front, so that I didn't look like an idiot.
     
  2. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    Do you mean cummulative over the course of many generations, or over the course of the life of the woman?

    I do not know moch about this field, but I can imagine that;

    A population of a few hundred is enough to provide enough natural selection to prevent major problems.
    Natural selection between cells could help the proccess.
    Since female gametes are largely inactive for most of their life there is little genetic damage going on.
    The very rare transfer of mitocondria from the male could again help the process of natural selection.

    This is all conjecture, and I expect someone will come along with an authorative answer.
     
  3. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    I mean over the course of many generations. Here's my original question.

    PS: it was poor phrasing. Don't assume I'm a woman based off of my hypothetical
     
  4. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    OK, I understand your question. I cannot answer it with any authority, but that has never stoped me before ;)

    I have previously thought that the prosess of the female forming all her eggs in utero (as opposed the the male way of doing it) could be to reduce exactly this problem. If the inactivety of the eggs reduces the genetic damage by say, 3 orders of magnitude, the mitocondria you got from your mother have an effective age of 3 months (about when the eggs form?) + 20 years / 1000. Your daugters then have an effective age of 6 months + 40 years / 1000. I can imagine that the selection I talked about before (within the cell, between the cells of the blastocyst, added to the minimal flow of genetic matterial from the father) could be enough to maintain a healthy enough population to allow life to continue.

    [EDIT] And could easily have caused the evolution of mitocondria from the free living bacteria they once were to the obligate intra cellular comensal they are today.
     
  5. ironduck

    ironduck Deity

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    Ok, you said that the answer to my two questions was that 'no, there was no rain before the flood', and 'no there were no rainbows before the flood'.

    So my subsequent questions are:

    1) Did water not evaporate and form clouds?

    2) Was it impossible for rainbows to be formed, or was it just that no one had seen any? Because there's no need for rain to form rainbows. Any source of drops will do. A waterfall is a good example. In other words, were the laws of physics different to prevent rainbows from forming, or was it just that no one had actually seen a rainbow for some reason?
     
  6. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    Dude, God can do whatever he wants. If something in the Bible doesn't make sense, we simply assume that God willed it - that way we don't have to think.
     
  7. ironduck

    ironduck Deity

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    You're not being very constructive. I'm trying to understand the logic (or lack of) that takes place here.
     
  8. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    What logic?
     
  9. Sidhe

    Sidhe Deity

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    Iron duck are you really asking for logic based on faith, good luck with that ;):D

    Even the lack of logic isn't consistent, what did you expect?
     
  10. ironduck

    ironduck Deity

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    I'm just trying to learn how they think, I find it interesting :)
     
  11. Hotpoint

    Hotpoint Rome Treaty Legions

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    Well it would give me the opportunity to once again demand the apology he owes me from a year ago if nothing else ;)
     
  12. Rik Meleet

    Rik Meleet Top predator Retired Moderator

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    Moderator Action: 1000 posts reached - thread closed.
     
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