The Pope rebukes Canada's Progressiveness

[sysyphus]

So it seems der Pope thinks that a bunch fo self-appointed foreign aristocrats are above democracy, rebuking a group of visiting Canadian bishops over Canada's progressive laws on abortion and marriage.

Link

Maybe he ought to mind his own business, and perhaps do something more useful like using his church's massive wealth to help combat poverty.

 

[JohnRM]

So it seems der Pope thinks that a bunch fo self-appointed foreign aristocrats are above democracy, rebuking a group of visiting Canadian bishops over Canada's progressive laws on abortion and marriage.

Link

Maybe he ought to mind his own business, and perhaps do something more useful like using his church's massive wealth to help combat poverty.

Maybe if the Canadian Bishops aren't going to stick to Catholicism, they should find another religion.

 

[jamiethearcher]

So it seems der Pope thinks that a bunch fo self-appointed foreign aristocrats are above democracy, rebuking a group of visiting Canadian bishops over Canada's progressive laws on abortion and marriage.

Link

Maybe he ought to mind his own business, and perhaps do something more useful like using his church's massive wealth to help combat poverty.

I should think that this IS the popes business. You need to consider this from his point of view - what is more useful? Helping people get into heaven for eternity, or helping people have a somewhat more comfortable time for their brief stay here on earth?

 

[skadistic]

The pope is going to get uppity about Canadia bishops with respect for others but does little about the child rapes in his ranks. I'm not suprised.

 

[Paradigne]

So it seems der Pope thinks that a bunch fo self-appointed foreign aristocrats are above democracy, rebuking a group of visiting Canadian bishops over Canada's progressive laws on abortion and marriage.

Link

Maybe he ought to mind his own business, and perhaps do something more useful like using his church's massive wealth to help combat poverty.

The Catholic church IS his business. If they are TRULY catholic bishops, they need to follow the law of the church.

I don't see what the problem is.

 

[sysyphus]

Maybe if the Canadian Bishops aren't going to stick to Catholicism, they should find another religion.

He's not rebuking behaviour of the Bishops, he's rebuking the behaviour of a democratically elected government, and trying to wield his influence against it.

 

[sysyphus]

I should think that this IS the popes business. You need to consider this from his point of view - what is more useful? Helping people get into heaven for eternity, or helping people have a somewhat more comfortable time for their brief stay here on earth?

Separation of church and state.

If this was a Muslim leader doing the same thing, people would be all over it.

 

[jamiethearcher]

Separation of church and state.

If this was a Muslim leader doing the same thing, people would be all over it.

Not at all - I have no problem with a muslim leader saying what his views are on proper governance - we do have freedom of speech after all.

I would have a problem with the government enacting laws based soley on religious beliefs, especially when they do not represent the beliefs of the majority, but I have no problem whatsoever with people expressing their opinions!

 

[De Lorimier]

I'm with sysyphus. The title of the article reads Pope assails Canadian laws, and that's exactly what he's doing. Catholic politicans or not, we live in a society of rights and a damn fine one might I add. The pope can judge his little clergy lambs and their fine work all he wants. The citizens will judge the politicians.

 

[Evil Tyrant]

Separation of church and state.

If this was a Muslim leader doing the same thing, people would be all over it.

I strongly suspect that is because the Pope is not likely to call for a crusade or send the Swiss Guard after you. Some Muslim leaders on the other hand do call for Jihads to enforce their teachings.

 

[warpus]

I should think that this IS the popes business. You need to consider this from his point of view - what is more useful? Helping people get into heaven for eternity, or helping people have a somewhat more comfortable time for their brief stay here on earth?

So you would be okay with the Pope going to Israel and criticizing the people there for not having accepted Jesus?

Maybe if the Canadian Bishops aren't going to stick to Catholicism, they should find another religion.

The pope is criticizing Canadian laws, something Canadian Bishops have no say over.

He lamented that Catholic politicians had yielded to “ephemeral social trends and the spurious demands of opinion polls.”

Lament all you want, but the days when the pope had influence over politicians (of any country) are long gone.

 

[jamiethearcher]

So you would be okay with the Pope going to Israel and criticizing the people there for not having accepted Jesus?

Thats right - I have no problem whatsover to the Pope (or anyone else for that matter) speaking freely on what he(or she) feels is right. He is the head of the Catholic Church, and I don't think he should be muzzled based on political correctness. Personally, I would disagree with the Pope for saying that, but as the quote goes, I would defend to the death his right to say it!

I personally support the nation of Israel, and I see no contradiction between these two positions - The right to free speech and a homeland for the Jews are two seperate issues.

 

[El_Machinae]

I said it in another thread. I don't see how having abortion illegal or homosexual marriage as legal does anything to hurt or help the soul of an atheist - even from the Catholic perspective.

 

[Che Guava]

Heh heh, as I was reading the article, another headline sprang to mind:

I guess the pope can say whatever he likes (he is the freakin' pope after all...), but I think I take him about as seriously as ol' Abe Simpson there. If catholics want to take thier religion and apply to thier personal lives, well that just fine, but we have plently of non-catholics that make up this country too, and we're trying to make laws that allows for anyone's personal choices, regardless of what religion they belong to or what the leader of thier faith says.

If I were the pope (and what a pope I'd be ) I think I would encourage catholics to not make use of divorce/gay-marriage laws, and otherwise live and let live.

 

[Masquerouge]

Why would the Pope not be allowed to speak his mind? I'm pretty sure he's not the first one to go on a crusade against a specific law, but all he has is influence...

 

[De Lorimier]

He's allowed to speak his mind. When he goes wrong is when he seems to think that because some canadian politicians are catholics, they should listen to him and his church, not the citizens of the country who elected them on secular platforms in the first place. It's bad enough Harper is using the tiresome God Bless Canada in his english speeches (oddly enough he never says it it french).

@Che: I actually laughed out loud when I saw the picture. Funny stuff!

 

[Che Guava]

Why would the Pope not be allowed to speak his mind? I'm pretty sure he's not the first one to go on a crusade against a specific law, but all he has is influence...

No-one is attacking him for speaking his mind, just questioning his place to say it. I can go to the vatican and tell the pope that he's an old fart that is setting back the progress of the human race by centuries and is completely missing the point of his faith, but he's probably say something like "Where the heck does he get off telling me about catholicism?"

and that's what we're telling him....

 

[Masquerouge]

He's allowed to speak his mind. When he goes wrong is when he seems to think that because some canadian politicians are catholics, they should listen to him and his church, not the citizens of the country who elected them on secular platforms in the first place. It's bad enough Harper is using the tiresome God Bless Canada in his english speeches (oddly enough he never says it it french).

Well if they're catholic, they're supposed to listen to the Pope... If they actively lobby for abortion and gay marriage while the Pope say it is wrong, maybe they should not be catholic any more.

 

[sysyphus]

Well if they're catholic, they're supposed to listen to the Pope... If they actively lobby for abortion and gay marriage while the Pope say it is wrong, maybe they should not be catholic any more.

WRONG. When you take elected office you're responsiblity is to govern on behalf of the people who elected you to represent them. Your religion and other value systems get checked at the door and you work based on the principles of teh Constitution of the government and the needs of your constituents combined with knowledge of principles of good governance.

If one cannot accept this, then they should not seek office in a secular democracy.

 

[De Lorimier]

Sure why not? And how about this instead: if they want to be elected to the parliement, either they put their religious beliefs aside and run for a real party, or they put those beliefs ahead of everything else and run for a religious wacko party. Then, if they are elected (yeah right), they can listen to the pope for their parliamentary actions. As I said, every elected officials in this parliement was elected on a secular platform. Now is not the time to act as the pope's representative to the canadian governemnt, whatever the old man says.