The roots and essence of the European Union project

innonimatu

the resident Cassandra
Joined
Dec 4, 2006
Messages
15,377
The best time to kick them is whet they're going down. The EU is not yet down, but it's cracking. Time for some more kicks. I'm shamelessly stealing this from Yanis Varoufakis.

Consider these statements:
[1] “Above and beyond the concept of the nation-state, the idea of a new community will transform the living space given us all by history into a new spiritual realm… The new Europe of solidarity and cooperation among all its peoples, a Europe without unemployment, without monetary crises, … will find an assured foundation and rapidly increasing prosperity once national economic barriers are removed.”

[2] “There must be a readiness to subordinate one’s own interests in certain cases to that of the European Community.”

[3] “The solution to economic problems… with the eventual object of a European customs union and a free European market, a European clearing system and stable exchange rates in Europe, looking towards a European currency union.”

[4] “The results of excessive nationalism and territorial dismemberment are within the experience of all. There is only hope for peace by means of a process which on the one hand respects the inalienable fundamental patrimony of every nation but, on the other, moderates these and subordinates them to a continental policy… A European Union could not be subject to the variations of internal policy that are characteristic of liberal regimes.”

[5] “A new Europe: that is the point, and that is the task before us. It does not mean that Italians and Germans and all other nations of the European family are to change their spots and become unrecognizable to themselves or to one another, from one day or one year to the next. It will be a new Europe because of the new inspiration and determining principle that will spring up among all these peoples.” … “The problem of the hierarchy of states will no longer arise. At least in its usual form, once we have cut off the dragon’s head; that is, the notion of state sovereignty. Moreover, this does not have to be dne outright, but can be achieved indirectly, e.g. by creating interstate European bodies to look after certain common interests (exchange rates, communications, foreign trade etc….)”

[6] [Here I shall quote from a well received, at the time, policy document which recommended the need to] “…put forward a European con-federal solution based on free cooperation among independent nations” [culminating into uniting Europe] “on a federal basis” [and adding that, to see this federation process through], “all that is required of European states is that they be loyal, pro-European members of the community and cooperate willingly in its tasks… The object of European cooperation being to promote peace, security and welfare for all its peoples.”

[7] “We must create a Europe that does not squander its blood and strength on internecine conflict, but forms a compact unity. In this way it will become richer, stronger and more civilized, and will recover its old place in the world.” “National tensions and petty jealousies will lose their meaning in a Europe freely organised on a federal basis. World political development consists inevitably in the formation of larger political and economic spheres.”

[8] “It is not very intelligent to imagine that in such a crowded house like that of Europe, a community of peoples can maintain different legal systems and different concepts of law for long.”

[9] “In my view a nation’s conception of its own freedom must be harmonised with present-day facts and simple questions of efficiency and purpose… Our only requirement of European states is that they be sincere and enthusiastic members of Europe.”

[10] “The people of Europe understand increasingly that the great issues dividing us, when compared with those which will emerge and will be resolved between continents, are nothing but trivial family feuds.” … “In fifty years Europeans will not be thinking in terms of separate countries.

What kind of politicians, do you think, had such enthusiasm for an "European Community"? How, do you thing, did this rhetoric of an "European Community" serve them?

You've read them? You cam make a guess as to the authors. Or follow the link to see.

Do you believe that contemporary rhetoric is different or similar? What kind of goads does it serve?
 
Ah, the high art of quote mining.
 
Ah, the high art of quote mining.

Whatever the picking of quotes made, the point is: the EU provide a very convenient excuse for politicians to curtail the freedom of choice of those they rule. For the sake of the "european community", everything can be justified, it seems. In the name of lofty ideals that no one could possibly disagree with, of course. There are no options remaining, national democracies are emptied. Or so people are led to believe. And in politics what you believe is.
 
sounds like the guy belives in a federation... something like the US of A, maybe, freedom for the states to do as they wish, under a Constitution and federal government.

works for Australia
 
The hideous, leaperous mask of Europe is ripped away to reveal the hideous, leaperous face of Europe.
 
Whatever the picking of quotes made, the point is: the EU provide a very convenient excuse for politicians to curtail the freedom of choice of those they rule.

If you honestly believe this, there is no point even talking about it.
 
This is a bad thread and you should feel bad for making it. On par with "ban moustaches because of the wars they've caused". Replace the references to European community with pretty much any largish geographic area of country and I'm sure you could get random people saying the same things.
 
If you honestly believe this, there is no point even talking about it.
Yeah. And honestly, for all my disagreement with inno's usual EU criticism, at least it's usually comprised of good arguments.

This is just the same intellectual level as the YECs who quote mined Dawkins and Darwin to "prove" how they actually believed in creationism all the time.
 
Not even an hour passed after this thread's creation before the Little European's piled in with their narrow "Europe is the world" view..
 
First, I'm actually quite tall.

Second, your post makes no sense and adds nothing to the thread.
 
You may be quite tall Leo - but the effect of having your little european head stuck up your...i'll let you complete the rest of the sentence ;)

I think outlining the real, devious motivations of the Europhiles does, in fact, add to the thread. Considering any lie or cheap trick is fair game as long as you get what you want my little europeaner friend. I can't think of anything more disgusting then filthy germans sticking their dirty hands into my bank account - taking my money! :mad: ;)
 
The roots and essence of the European Union project

This:

scheisse.gif
 
You may be quite tall Leo - but the effect of having your little european head stuck up your...i'll let you complete the rest of the sentence ;)

I think outlining the real, devious motivations of the Europhiles does, in fact, add to the thread. Considering any lie or cheap trick is fair game as long as you get what you want my little europeaner friend. I can't think of anything more disgusting then filthy germans sticking their dirty hands into my bank account - taking my money! :mad: ;)
For all your dislike of Germans and their filthy hands you seem to be channeling Adolf a lot here.

Also, you didn't "outline" anything, nor did you make an argument. You just appeared to complain about a so-called "Europe is the world" view, which nobody has expressed here (not to mention that I don't even know what that's supposed to mean). Now you're going off on a rant about someone going after British bank accounts, which also hasn't been discussed anywhere.

You may be angry about many things, but that doesn't mean we have to know what these things are, nor that other people who disagree with you on tangentially related subjects are responsible for these things and therefore have to endure your rants, nor that these complaints are relevant to the thread at hand in the first place.
 
I see Little England Quackers taking the world of the Daily Fail as gosbel?

As a Welsh citizen the EU is a body that will aid indepedence! The EU gives a good spaec to become a indepedene nation... even if it has entered a troubled storm. However the ship has not sunk.
 
I see Little England Quackers taking the world of the Daily Fail as gosbel?

As a Welsh citizen the EU is a body that will aid indepedence! The EU gives a good spaec to become a indepedene nation... even if it has entered a troubled storm. However the ship has not sunk.

Are you dyslexic or something?
I know I get the odd word wrong but it is a challenge to read your posts.
 
I for one like the Autobahn.
 
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