The socratic method, according to Socrates (Plato) himself

Kyriakos

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The main method Socrates uses in the dialogues is termed as the maieutike, which translates to 'of the mid-wife'. Socrates notes in the dialogue with Theaitetos that his own mother, Phainarete, was a midwife, and his own work really is similar, although more complicated in his view.
By this he explains that he means he is also not bringing something of his to life (his own ideas), but helps other people he talks to to examine their still unborn ideas, and bring them to the light and develop them. Or note if they are not actual ideas, but 'idols' (eidola), which they must be rid off.

It is not very far-fetched to claim that the previous philosophers have a far more constructive, and hypothesis/argument-based work, while Socrates appears to mostly wish to examine if the views he is listening to are actually logical as the thinkers proposing them deem them to be.

Ultimately, in the Platonic works, Socrates is more likely to end each dialogue by having highlighted enough of the ambiguousness in the discussion that the other thinkers have to accept they overstated their original basis for elaborating on set views they had. Parmenides is a notable exception in this type of development, cause that dialogue ends with Parmenides helping Socrates to examine if his idea of Eide (Categories/Archetypes) is really worthy of being further developed.

Socrates has been termed a decadent figure, and already himself named his own philosophy somewhat similarily, or at least easily accepted that he misses the vigor to develop his own ideas as set as the teachings and arguments of most other philosophers. While this at least in significant part is not a negative position (cause it rests on his view and research of logic which leads him to cancel the supposed validity of other people's 'good basis' for arguing their own views), in another part it seems very negative, and a modern philosopher who famously termed Socrates as decadent was F.Nietzsche.

While Nietzsche would later on term his own self (partly) as decadent philosophically too, and a little later just collapse after watching a horse being harmed and forced to try to carry impossible loads- an image which was right out of the Crime and Punishment chapter about Raskolnicov's feverish dreams that he had read a little prior to that real event of his own life), it still seems very valid to attach the connotation of decadence to a mind which (despite being of high intelligence) is not involved in actual birth or formation of an individual theory.
At any rate Nietzsche also commented that the presocratics were an amazing advancement of logic and thought, which almost was wiped out by the one figure of Socrates, working his way as an eroding element on the mololiths of previous philosophy dating back to the 7th century BC, and likely wounding what was to come after his own death in 399 BC, following his trial in the city now reduced to a wall-less satellite of Sparta. :)

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You can discuss about Socrates (and mostly his method), or note or ask similar things.
 
No theory is as important to philosophy as an ever-questioning frame of mind. Socrates had it just right.
 
Kyriakos, what's your take on the Socratic Problem? What do you think it matters that we don't have Socrates' writings at first hand?
 
No theory is as important to philosophy as an ever-questioning frame of mind. Socrates had it just right.

Mostly true, i suppose, but:
while Socrates is hugely interested in examining the inner stabiliy (or lack of it) of the arguments of other/previous philosophers, this is not really his own patent either, cause it predates him at least by 30 years and Zeno's defense of Parmenidian "All is One" view. Which is why i mentioned in the OP the dialogue titled "Parmenides", where Parmenides pretty much does what Socrates tries to more covertly do later on (Parmenides gives an actual account of his 'dialectic method', while Socrates gives glimpses of a similar one in his own arguments in other dialogues).
It can still be said that contrary to the presocratics he is not tied to a specific theory of phenomena, other than being supportive (according to Plato) of the Parmenidian/eleatic positions.

Kyriakos, what's your take on the Socratic Problem? What do you think it matters that we don't have Socrates' writings at first hand?

Diogenes of Sinope (aka Diogenes the Cynic) famously accused Plato of presenting a false Socrates in his work. Then again Diogenes of Sinope was a worse troll than both Socrates himself and Aristophanes :) And Socrates also accused Aristophanes of trolling him in his Clouds play, which supposedly was a main reason why he could be even accused in court at 399 BC as if he was a hazard for the city.

There is no way to tell how Socrates may have differed from the Platonic version, but it should be noted that already in Plato the figure of Socrates is often very crude and vile (despite also being very intelligent) :) In that he is a bit close to Diogenes, his other student.
Then again Diogenes famously responded to Zeno presenting his thesis on 'why movement does not exist' (ie it is an illusion by the senses/human point of view), by standing up and moving away. So Diogenes hardly was one who did not miss the meaning in other philosopher's points either :D
 
So what is the best source to learn something about Socrates? I have only vague idea of his life and philosophy. I think he was dubbed as grandfather of philosophy by some...
 
Bill and Ted Excellent Adventure is a good start.
 
So what is the best source to learn something about Socrates? I have only vague idea of his life and philosophy. I think he was dubbed as grandfather of philosophy by some...

Plato. For better or worse it is the only source close enough to being a primary one ;) (Xenophon does not deal much with philosophy).

And it is pretty interesting too. I particularly love the info which was concurrent when written (but likely not when the dialogues are set, decades before) to the geometrical lessons in Plato's Academy, by Theodoros and Menaichmos. The dialogue between Socrates and Theaitetos almost begins with the description of the spiral of Theodoros.

 
Bill and Ted Excellent Adventure is a good start.

Usualy I have a problem watching anything older then ten years and this is from '89...
 
It is not very far-fetched to claim that the previous philosophers have a far more constructive, and hypothesis/argument-based work, while Socrates appears to mostly wish to examine if the views he is listening to are actually logical as the thinkers proposing them deem them to be.

In my opinion, constructive and destructive thinking are equally important. You need new arguments and ideas to make progress, but you need rigorously question those ideas to reduce them to the parts that make sense (if any).
 
In my opinion, constructive and destructive thinking are equally important. You need new arguments and ideas to make progress, but you need rigorously question those ideas to reduce them to the parts that make sense (if any).

I agree. However surely turning things to zero is not by itself more worthy than just that: revealing that something deemed as non-zero is actually zero.
It still is not like creating a non-zero in the first place.

And another issue here is that Socrates still (or Plato, anyway) is Parmenidian in his views. And Parmenides was about zero in a very very different way, claiming that 'any human sense or thought is False'. Which is positive as a statement still.

In the Republic or other dialogues Socrates argues for a toned-down Parmenidian view, where human thought is close to zero, but not absolutely having zero connection to something 'real', the so-termed Archetypes or Eide.

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A very notable bit of the Republic where Socrates argues positively for a study is in the 7th book, where he clearly claims that math must be examined as its own phenomenon, and is very clearly against focus on external phenomena (mentions astronomy as well as a negative subject).
In general this is part of the 'axiom-based logic system/math' vs 'physical/natural science', which sort of drifted the other way with Aristotle.
 
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