The Space Race - UN Building

[Thorvald of Lym]

Derek Defacto, Esquire and UN Freelancer, would also like to remind this forum that until even a basic constitution is ratified, nobody can make resolutions.

 

[Patriotic_Fool]

Adolf Hitler, Fuhrer of the 2nd 3rd Reich, would like to remind everyone that a constitution (jehoshuas') was passed already.

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

OK, who signed it?

 

[Daedwartin]

Adolf Hitler, Fuhrer of the 2nd 3rd Reich, would like to remind everyone that a constitution (jehoshuas') was passed already.

It is not recognized by all UN nations. Some supported a different consitution, and some have outright refused to join. Some have withdrawn support for the passed constitution. It is ineffective if it is not universally recognized as the consitution of the UN. Plus some nations are having second thoughts from what I have heard.

The UN is right now just a bunch of diplomatic channels. You can not force the consitution, for doing that would violate the very mission of the UN. Simply put, only through making a consitution everyone agrees on can it work. And no such thing exists. Currently, no event has really occurred that would leave nations supporting said consitution as a majority group. The UN of the 20th century only managed to form because of most of the worlds nation's having been allies against the axis, and even the USSR had reasons to join( legitimacy gained from it, and the security council veto they would have been given for being a permanent member). No such level of event has occurred with a outcome like this. And the current Defense against the nazi invasion is still ongoing.

 

[Tani Coyote]

XONES:

Well, it would appear the UN is hamstrung.

Few nations even come to the Union, and what few do cannot agree on any function besides some sort of mediation.

No policies are in place to control controls should peace talks break down... nor is there any measure to encourage nations to come to peace talks.

What two nations put forth proposals to remedy the situation made it so that it was virtually impossible to achieve anything, as well. Even Equestria's more moderate constitution has barely any recognition and Tibet's fares even worse...

I will say. Things don't bode well internationally!

 

[Ailedhoo]

Yes: 3 including the Nazis
No: 4

The UN has not the authority to enter France military even if it did have a yes then a no. The no is leading for good reason: this is a reagional issue. The Nazis' yes suggest a cynicall ploy on their part to use the UN for their oppressive purposes.

The issue is a regional issue for GED and the Nazis to resolve, not for the UN to come in with the guns.

 

[Daedwartin]

Jeho's constitutional revision makes it impossible to amend if there's but one dissenting vote... Well no. Impossible to do ANYTHING without absolute consensus.

The "logic fail" is false: tyranny of the majority is possible with 50%+1, and requiring super majorities protects against that.

Anyway, electoral results!

The Pony constitution has 3 votes and 1 nay. Jeho's constitution has 2 votes. Pony constitution passes.

While the idea of a UN mandate passes solidly, it cannot be enforced unless those who occupy the territories agree to it.

There is a problem that greatly concerns our nation. Our administration could not fail to notice that the UN consitution currently with the most votes has not properly been ratified by 2/3 of the UN nations. only 6 nations voted, and half effectively rejected it. This simply means the UN has no consitution yet. It means that Macadonia's proposals have no effect, because their is no legal structure to allow them to be done. With the lack of legal structure, all they are is words. If Macadonia wishes to enforce these right now, it would be a illegal act of war on SUDS and the German Empire, for invading Historical French and German territory. The Kaiser is currently moving to end that madman's rebellion in which he seeks to oppress Europe from. The Germans, Romanian, Austrians, Checkoslovakian, Ukranian, Belorusian, Romai(ooc: look them up if you dont know), Russian, Poles, Slavs, Baltic peoples, French, Norman, North Italian, Yugoslavian, Macadonian, Greek, And Jewish people have suffered at this man's hand in the past. He is clearly a war criminal for his actions, and would have been among those given the death penalty at Nuremberg that day, if not for his cowardness. Yet, dispite this, yor willing to work with him, one who it is sickening for me to even think of sharing the same city block with him. He claimed Poland had attacked him when he invaded them in 1939. As history knows, said attack was staged by Hitler. he then proceeded to try and conquer europe, not knowing what was enough. How can you not see that he will only try again. He was foolish enough to declare war on the two nations with the strength to destroy him, in the course of half a year, The USSR, a much more efficient nation at the time ( OOC: actually, the most efficient on earth at the time. It did take stalin's not so savory actions though to achieve.) and The US, which had a industrial capicity unmatched anywhere, backed by a very efficient people, when they want to be.( OOC: thats the thing though...the US needs to want to commit itself to that thing before it will do it). These actions, combined with the rebels in southern Germany's move into France, when they have yet to even insure they have successfully insured their Indpendence from the Kaiser, as only convinced our goverment the UN has been imperialist.

 

[Tani Coyote]

The best part is there's no formal procedure for ratification either...

Well. I did my part to try and assist. Up to you folks now!

 

[Jehoshua]

Jeho's constitutional revision makes it impossible to amend if there's but one dissenting vote... Well no. Impossible to do ANYTHING without absolute consensus.

The "logic fail" is false: tyranny of the majority is possible with 50%+1, and requiring super majorities protects against that.

Anyway, electoral results!

The Pony constitution has 3 votes and 1 nay. Jeho's constitution has 2 votes. Pony constitution passes.

While the idea of a UN mandate passes solidly, it cannot be enforced unless those who occupy the territories agree to it.

I would remind tani that we don't have an institution to enforce a legal framework (no UN currently ) and as such you simply cannot declare your Equestrian thingy passed with three votes, since there is no institution established which has authority over states on this particular inter-state matter. Indeed until a consensus on the establishment document of a UN can be reached, we have a UN only in the sense of a collection of nations talking about establishing one.

Oh and I also contest that assertion that its impossible to do anything without absolute consensus in my modified establishment document. The UN can pass many things without requiring consensus particularly in the area of peace and security (say mandating an attack on a rogue state), and its commonsense to require ratification from a country on binding matters (otherwise your just imposing the unelected UN's will on the people, you tyrannical monster ) which incidentally does not mean the measure isn't passed, simply that a state is showing its evil and against the UN and likes diplo-detriments.

Oh and your saying my accusation of equestrian logic fail is false is itself false. Since my poor ponified friend, the size of the majority does not somehow negate its possibility of tyrannising the minority that dissents. Ergo a 95% majority can still tyranise the 5 percent minority just as much as a 51% majority can tyrannise the 49%. Its simply absurd to say that just because your majority is really, really, big, the freedoms and liberties of a small group of dissenters means nothing. (Indeed under your logic it would be perfectly legitimate for say a hypothetical Russia to persecute its hypothetical 5% pony population so long as a large majority of Russians (say 80%) support that persecution [with the possible aim of producing dog food])

 

[Daedwartin]

If you weren't convinced of Hilter's I'll intentions, we are certain now. His "elections clearly show his nation is not a true democracy. he has openly declared political oppression. This Auschwitz "theme park" is clearly a extermination camp, for what else could a place by that name . Those "imperialist pigs", he claims he is using them as fertilizer. This clearly states he had them executed, without even consulting the nation of orgin.

also, his party has received a voter turn out that can not occur. For 100.1% is impossible. he has clearly continued his old ways. How can you support such a monster, UN?

 

[Jehoshua]

The UN isn't supporting anything since the community of states has not set parameters for a UN's establishment and is currently in the phase of working out how to establish aforementioned institution.

Ergo technically the UN does not yet exist.

 

[Arrow Gamer]

Than Macedonia should stop acting like he's the UN! It doesn't even exist!

 

[Jehoshua]

Alas, certain nations lack an understanding of legal principles and need to be reminded of the current situation lest ignorance reign on this matter

 

[Darkfeather]

There is no evidence that Auschwitz is not a themepark.

 

[JamesCaesar]

No, but Fegelland is.

 

[Patriotic_Fool]

If you weren't convinced of Hilter's I'll intentions, we are certain now. His "elections clearly show his nation is not a true democracy.

Never said we were a democracy, silly Italians. Anyways, we would like to point out that the recently passed Mandate called for BOTH German and French provinces to be handed over to the UN. This is not a one-sided deal, the 2nd 3rd Reich has 3 "disputed' provinces, while France has "2". We would lose the most under this agreement.

 

[Tani Coyote]

I personally am sensing that there will be a schism into two or more Unions each vying for international legitimacy.

So.

 

[Jehoshua]

Never said we were a democracy, silly Italians. Anyways, we would like to point out that the recently passed Mandate called for BOTH German and French provinces to be handed over to the UN. This is not a one-sided deal, the 2nd 3rd Reich has 3 "disputed' provinces, while France has "2". We would lose the most under this agreement.

There is no passed mandate since there is no UN established to legitimise it. Ergo until there is an established organisation the various votes on "resolutions" are really nothing more than the opinion of those states on the matter, since there is no objective authority voluntarily submitted too by the nations that gives a resolution, even if it has majority support, international and universal legitimacy.

 

[Ailedhoo]

The Macedonians and the Arabs have indaved the SUDS without a UN mandate. They have violating UN protocole and shown themselves as imperialist!

We demand the Arabs and Macedonians be reminded that they are not the UN and that they leave S.U.D.S territory now.

 

[Patriotic_Fool]

The Macedonians and the Arabs have indaved the SUDS without a UN mandate. They have violating UN protocole and shown themselves as imperialist!

We demand the Arabs and Macedonians be reminded that they are not the UN and that they leave S.U.D.S territory now.

*chuckles*

Ailedhoo, it's no longer SUDS territory. Macedonia handed over their 2 territories to the UN, and Arabia seems intent on taking those few territories for themselves.

As for my 3 territories, well, *scoff* what can I say. They had every intention of taking them + giving to UN, just didn't pan out that way. Darn England.