The Sword of Islam: RFC Medieval Middle East
- Thread starter embryodead
- Start date
embryodead
Caliph
The map srpt posted is tilted about 45 degrees compared to the SoI map, in reality Edessa is not that far north, it lies in open plain, not in the mountains. Though more importantly it also screws Ak Koyunlu spawn - you moved it to avoid it being 1 tile away from Aleppo and now it's 1 tile away from both Amida/Diyarbakir and Malatya.
embryodead
Caliph
I've tried various combinations before and my take on it is that there's no space for Aleppo on the map, not if I want to keep other important cities and not have cities that are completely off.
You can always fit Aleppo in the proper location 1 tile away from Antioch, then fill it with resources, but I just don't see the point in having it. Being that close, it'll be in PoA hands most of the time, or be razed by the player to make super-Antioch.
Moving Antioch 1S/1W (where Latakia should be) is also an option. May be ugly, but it allows Aleppo 2-tile away without moving anything.
Quick (or so I hope) implementation question: I just went away from using Python to achieve unique GP names in DoC and instead used unique units and the standard names list like here. For the normal GPs, everything works out, but great generals still pose a problem, I've seen Heinz Guderian born in Byzantium for example 
Is there something I have to change to make this system work for generals too? I've searched the forum and only encountered some allusions that an SDK modification is necessary for this.
Is there something I have to change to make this system work for generals too? I've searched the forum and only encountered some allusions that an SDK modification is necessary for this.
embryodead
Caliph
Quick (or so I hope) implementation question: I just went away from using Python to achieve unique GP names in DoC and instead used unique units and the standard names list like here. For the normal GPs, everything works out, but great generals still pose a problem, I've seen Heinz Guderian born in Byzantium for example
Is there something I have to change to make this system work for generals too? I've searched the forum and only encountered some allusions that an SDK modification is necessary for this.
TBH that sounds like a bad idea, because Python implementation is much better
the only downside being that you can't display unique names in the Log. On the other hand, the SDK/XML solution creates a lot of other problems.Great Generals ignore unique unit settings, the fix for this behaviour is in CvPlayer.cpp lines 10149-10173.
The units will be doubled in the Civilopedia, unless you apply my fixes from Screens/CvPediaUnit.py and CvPediaCivilization.py and possibly CvGameTextMgr (I commented those parts as related to GraphicalOnly). Ofc the extra GPs have to have bGraphicalOnly set to 1, and that may require changing the XML schema as well.
You'll also see that Statistics screen is screwed, because every GP is displayed as a separate unit. That one is rather convoluted so I'd use WinMerge (Screens/CvInfoScreen.py)
AnotherPacifist
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2007
- Messages
- 4,878
What do you mean? They nearly always collapse and never respawn. Very annoying for Omani.
Unlike the Abbasids who respawn every 50-100 years or so.
Okay, thanks. The nastiest side effects of an XML implementation I've already removed (Civilopedia entries, the multiple mentions in "can be researched by" and "can be built by"). Statistics is one I didn't notice yet, will look into it.TBH that sounds like a bad idea, because Python implementation is much better
Great Generals ignore unique unit settings, the fix for this behaviour is in CvPlayer.cpp lines 10149-10173.
The units will be doubled in the Civilopedia, unless you apply my fixes from Screens/CvPediaUnit.py and CvPediaCivilization.py and possibly CvGameTextMgr (I commented those parts as related to GraphicalOnly). Ofc the extra GPs have to have bGraphicalOnly set to 1, and that may require changing the XML schema as well.
You'll also see that Statistics screen is screwed, because every GP is displayed as a separate unit. That one is rather convoluted so I'd use WinMerge (Screens/CvInfoScreen.py)
corovanrobber
King
We are playing different mods I presume, but in mine one Yemeni is the most annoying civ that concretly never collapses.
And ya Abbasidians respawn so often that there's no reason even to capture or collapse them.
Ok Guys this is what I have so far. The pictures pretty much tell everything. I started up the first game, to show you guys just how they are layed out, and where the resources are, and then you have the other two pictures, of games I started as the Ghorids, and then took pictures of how the situation was. Whats nice is that in one game, PoA was ok-ok strong, and then in another the Zengids were really strong, so I think it worked out pretty well overall.
As you can tell (and cannot tell) these are the changes I've made:
- Shifted around some resources around Northern Syria, Jazaria and Edessa provinces.
- Removed the Maronite Migration (no more Catholicism in that area), I'll try to re-add it later when I figure out how to remove religions.
- Gave Damascus extra defense, only if it is independent/barb between 1096 to 1250 (From the beginning of the Crusades to the spawning of the Mamluks). This has had mixed results, but can someone tell me how I could spawn a castle in Damascus if they are indie/barb?
New Event idea for Safavids (and perhaps Indian civs as well):
The English East India Trading Company has come to trade with your civilization, accept or decline? Something along those lines. And bascially the East India Trading Company is VERY anti-Portuguese Trading Company, and you get minus relations with the Portuguese if you accept, and if the Portuguese attack you, then you get some boats to defend yourself, like at the Battle of Ormuz in 1622 (in the time frame) but the trading event (and hopefully company, which would rival the Estado da India) which appear in 1612 when they defeated the Portuguese and met Jahangir of the Mughals to talk about a treaty.
As you can tell (and cannot tell) these are the changes I've made:
- Shifted around some resources around Northern Syria, Jazaria and Edessa provinces.
- Removed the Maronite Migration (no more Catholicism in that area), I'll try to re-add it later when I figure out how to remove religions.
- Gave Damascus extra defense, only if it is independent/barb between 1096 to 1250 (From the beginning of the Crusades to the spawning of the Mamluks). This has had mixed results, but can someone tell me how I could spawn a castle in Damascus if they are indie/barb?
New Event idea for Safavids (and perhaps Indian civs as well):
The English East India Trading Company has come to trade with your civilization, accept or decline? Something along those lines. And bascially the East India Trading Company is VERY anti-Portuguese Trading Company, and you get minus relations with the Portuguese if you accept, and if the Portuguese attack you, then you get some boats to defend yourself, like at the Battle of Ormuz in 1622 (in the time frame) but the trading event (and hopefully company, which would rival the Estado da India) which appear in 1612 when they defeated the Portuguese and met Jahangir of the Mughals to talk about a treaty.
Attachments
Here is a list of some minor issues I have compiled over couple of weeks:
-Later techs are slightly too expensive
-Razing an infidel city gains no piety, but massacring does. That's illogical.
-The marsh 1NW of Samarra should be moved, because the AI favours this tile when attacking Samarra from west, leading the AI to attack-withdraw-heal-attack-withdraw-heal...
-Al Jazari should really give one free tech, this is essential for Ottomans and really only adds strategic pondering and spices up the teching. Rather remove the free engineer.
-Oman should start with more techs. In one game after playing ~20 turns Abbasids gave me Paper, because I was so far behind.
-Cities that declare independence due to stability should be more logical; e.g. on foreign core, having many different religions, having angry people and so on.
-Also please share some ideas how to spice up the shipping techs!
Then to the later civics that need some remodelling:
-For instance Religious Freedom should give a tech bonus, otherwise it is pretty much useless.
-State monopoly should give a food bonus to some terrain improvements, currently it is useless.
-Meritocracy needs some spicing, can't come up with anything good though.
-And so does Absolutism.
@Edead: I just wanted bring these up for discussion, but really take your time off, you have deserved it.
-Later techs are slightly too expensive
-Razing an infidel city gains no piety, but massacring does. That's illogical.
-The marsh 1NW of Samarra should be moved, because the AI favours this tile when attacking Samarra from west, leading the AI to attack-withdraw-heal-attack-withdraw-heal...
-Al Jazari should really give one free tech, this is essential for Ottomans and really only adds strategic pondering and spices up the teching. Rather remove the free engineer.
-Oman should start with more techs. In one game after playing ~20 turns Abbasids gave me Paper, because I was so far behind.
-Cities that declare independence due to stability should be more logical; e.g. on foreign core, having many different religions, having angry people and so on.
-Also please share some ideas how to spice up the shipping techs!
Then to the later civics that need some remodelling:
-For instance Religious Freedom should give a tech bonus, otherwise it is pretty much useless.
-State monopoly should give a food bonus to some terrain improvements, currently it is useless.
-Meritocracy needs some spicing, can't come up with anything good though.
-And so does Absolutism.
@Edead: I just wanted bring these up for discussion, but really take your time off, you have deserved it.
Olaf_The_Great
Omnicidal Oligarch
When playing I see a bit of a problem with Civics, I think I have some ideas to fix them. I have no idea if these are balanced or feasible, but I might as well give it a shot.
I prefer buffs to nerfs so
Government
Monarchy-Keep the same.
Aristocracy-1 gold 3 culture, reducing it's usefulness for most civs but not all, keep happiness the same.
Empire-30% Maintenance cost reduction, allows building of a 75 hammer cost building called a "Governor's Mansion" (or satrap, something like that) which increases Stability by one, gold by 10% and reduces happiness by 1. (Or some tweaking, I think empire needs some sort of expansion bonus building.
Absolutism-Add a 5% gold and 15% production bonus.
Legal
Vassalage-Meh, I guess the same?
Religious Law-Reduce Great person to 50%, give a small gold boost to temples(haha)
Bureaucracy-The problem with this civic is that it comes rather late and none of the civs remain small, except Perhaps Oman...perhaps....so I suggest keeping 50% 50% in Capital and 25% 25% in 3 largest cities.
Meritocracy-Add a 20% Science boost?
Labor-
Slavery-Keep same
Caste System-Keep same, give Indian civs a unique workshop that gives +food too maybe? I don't know the balance of these.
Serfdom-Keep same
Free Labor-Add hammer, reduce maintenance from high to medium
Economy-I think these are all fine except maybe except maybe Merchant Capitalism, maybe increase gold from trade by some %
Religion-Eh
I prefer buffs to nerfs so
Government
Monarchy-Keep the same.
Aristocracy-1 gold 3 culture, reducing it's usefulness for most civs but not all, keep happiness the same.
Empire-30% Maintenance cost reduction, allows building of a 75 hammer cost building called a "Governor's Mansion" (or satrap, something like that) which increases Stability by one, gold by 10% and reduces happiness by 1. (Or some tweaking, I think empire needs some sort of expansion bonus building.
Absolutism-Add a 5% gold and 15% production bonus.
Legal
Vassalage-Meh, I guess the same?
Religious Law-Reduce Great person to 50%, give a small gold boost to temples(haha)
Bureaucracy-The problem with this civic is that it comes rather late and none of the civs remain small, except Perhaps Oman...perhaps....so I suggest keeping 50% 50% in Capital and 25% 25% in 3 largest cities.
Meritocracy-Add a 20% Science boost?
Labor-
Slavery-Keep same
Caste System-Keep same, give Indian civs a unique workshop that gives +food too maybe? I don't know the balance of these.
Serfdom-Keep same
Free Labor-Add hammer, reduce maintenance from high to medium
Economy-I think these are all fine except maybe except maybe Merchant Capitalism, maybe increase gold from trade by some %
Religion-Eh
Thanks Edead for updating the game, and making my life easier with the citynamemanager.py file
Also brilliant idea for the removal of GP's from cities when the Mongols attacked, that should be interesting to watch.
But I just had a few comments on the name's of a few cities you added, just tell me what you think, as you might have gotten it from more authoritive location than me, but for the names I will provide for Aleppo, I got them from here
Anyway here is my list of naming questions/suggestions (I've bolded the new names):
1. The name for Halab when conquered by the Byzantines should be "Vérria" as it was known in Byzantine Greek
2. Good call on changing Ankara's name to Angora, I had never realized that the name changed only in 1930!
3. As for Adrainoupolis, where did you find the name Adrina? I can't seem to find any mention of an Adrina? Edrine, is what I've always expected the name to be after the Turkish conquest.
4. The name "Halep" for Halab, is actually more modern Turkish, Ottoman Turkish (old Turkish), would have known the city as the Arabs did, with the name Halab.
5. The name for Halab in the Outremer sense is a bit sqeemish to me, in the sense that it depends if you are going to go with the Modern French name for it or the Latin name for it. Having the correct name for what Crusaders would have called Halab is especially hard since they never actually conquered the city.
But this is what I'm going to leave you with:
Latin: Beroea
Modern French: Alep
I'd perfer Beroea, but then again, you could also go with "Aleppu", which is what the Sicilian army under Boehmund would have called the city. Your call...
Also brilliant idea for the removal of GP's from cities when the Mongols attacked, that should be interesting to watch.
But I just had a few comments on the name's of a few cities you added, just tell me what you think, as you might have gotten it from more authoritive location than me, but for the names I will provide for Aleppo, I got them from here
Anyway here is my list of naming questions/suggestions (I've bolded the new names):
1. The name for Halab when conquered by the Byzantines should be "Vérria" as it was known in Byzantine Greek
2. Good call on changing Ankara's name to Angora, I had never realized that the name changed only in 1930!
3. As for Adrainoupolis, where did you find the name Adrina? I can't seem to find any mention of an Adrina? Edrine, is what I've always expected the name to be after the Turkish conquest.
4. The name "Halep" for Halab, is actually more modern Turkish, Ottoman Turkish (old Turkish), would have known the city as the Arabs did, with the name Halab.
5. The name for Halab in the Outremer sense is a bit sqeemish to me, in the sense that it depends if you are going to go with the Modern French name for it or the Latin name for it. Having the correct name for what Crusaders would have called Halab is especially hard since they never actually conquered the city.
But this is what I'm going to leave you with:
Latin: Beroea
Modern French: Alep
I'd perfer Beroea, but then again, you could also go with "Aleppu", which is what the Sicilian army under Boehmund would have called the city. Your call...
embryodead
Caliph
Normans, including those from Italy, spoke Old French, not Sicilian/Italian, and I'm fairly sure Alep was the name used, as the article says other forms, including Italian Aleppo, derive from French Alep.
Here are all the names of Edirne Adrina should probably be Adriana or Andrine, although most common Ottoman name seems to be Edrene. Just googled it and someone suggested it went by Adrina->Edrene->Edirne.
Adona Aderyana Adranos Adrenoble Adrenople Adriana Adrianapoli Adrianapolim Adrianapolin Adrianapolis Adrianapolitanorum Adrianopel Adrianople Adrianopolitanus Adrianopolito Adrianoupoleos Adrianoupolis Adrianu Adrianubuli Adrianupleos Adrianupoleos Adrianupolin Adriaupolis Adriaupleos Adrinopolis Adrinopolitane Adrinibuli Adriyanu Adriyauples Andinopolitane Andnenoble Andraanopoli Andranapoli Andranopoli Andranos Andrenoble Andrenople Andrenopoi Andrenopolli Andrenopolu Andrenopoly Andrianopolitana Andrine Andrinople Andrinopolis Andrinopolitane Andriuyanon Andriyanou Andriyanovi Andriyanupoli Andronopoli Andronopolis Andryianovi Anıdrriyanavi Anıtkent Antrianopolis Ardenople Âstâne-i Edirne Dandrinopla Dâr-al Fath Dâr-al Mülk Dâr-al Nasr Dâr-al Nasr val Maymana Dâr-al Saltana Dar-el Feth Dar-ül Meymene Dar-ül Mülk Dar-ün Nasr Dar-üs Saltana Edren Edrene Edrenos Edrin Edrinaboli Edrinabolu Edrine Edrinus Edrona Edrone Edrune Endriye Goneis Gonni Gonnoi Hadrianopoli Hadrianopolim Hadrianopolin Hadrianopolis Hadrianopolun Hadrianopoleos Hadrianupolis Hadrianoupoleos Mahmiya-i Edirne Mahmiyet-i Edirne Mahmiye-i Edirne Mahmiyye-i Edirne Mahrûsa-i Edirne Mahrûse-i Edirne Odrin Odris Odrisa Odrisia Odrisum Odrisya Odrusa Odrys Odrysai Odrysais Odrysois Odrysos Odryssois Odryson Oresta Orestas Orestia Orestiada Orestiadas Orestiam Orestias Orestu Orestuias Orestus Sinan-kenti Tahtgâh-ı Edirne Uscodoniam Uscudama Uscudamam ve Uskudama.
Here are all the names of Edirne
Adrina should probably be Adriana or Andrine, although most common Ottoman name seems to be Edrene. Just googled it and someone suggested it went by Adrina->Edrene->Edirne.Adona Aderyana Adranos Adrenoble Adrenople Adriana Adrianapoli Adrianapolim Adrianapolin Adrianapolis Adrianapolitanorum Adrianopel Adrianople Adrianopolitanus Adrianopolito Adrianoupoleos Adrianoupolis Adrianu Adrianubuli Adrianupleos Adrianupoleos Adrianupolin Adriaupolis Adriaupleos Adrinopolis Adrinopolitane Adrinibuli Adriyanu Adriyauples Andinopolitane Andnenoble Andraanopoli Andranapoli Andranopoli Andranos Andrenoble Andrenople Andrenopoi Andrenopolli Andrenopolu Andrenopoly Andrianopolitana Andrine Andrinople Andrinopolis Andrinopolitane Andriuyanon Andriyanou Andriyanovi Andriyanupoli Andronopoli Andronopolis Andryianovi Anıdrriyanavi Anıtkent Antrianopolis Ardenople Âstâne-i Edirne Dandrinopla Dâr-al Fath Dâr-al Mülk Dâr-al Nasr Dâr-al Nasr val Maymana Dâr-al Saltana Dar-el Feth Dar-ül Meymene Dar-ül Mülk Dar-ün Nasr Dar-üs Saltana Edren Edrene Edrenos Edrin Edrinaboli Edrinabolu Edrine Edrinus Edrona Edrone Edrune Endriye Goneis Gonni Gonnoi Hadrianopoli Hadrianopolim Hadrianopolin Hadrianopolis Hadrianopolun Hadrianopoleos Hadrianupolis Hadrianoupoleos Mahmiya-i Edirne Mahmiyet-i Edirne Mahmiye-i Edirne Mahmiyye-i Edirne Mahrûsa-i Edirne Mahrûse-i Edirne Odrin Odris Odrisa Odrisia Odrisum Odrisya Odrusa Odrys Odrysai Odrysais Odrysois Odrysos Odryssois Odryson Oresta Orestas Orestia Orestiada Orestiadas Orestiam Orestias Orestu Orestuias Orestus Sinan-kenti Tahtgâh-ı Edirne Uscodoniam Uscudama Uscudamam ve Uskudama.
I don't know, just Alep sounds a bit wrong. Why not use the Latin name then? Isn't that what you used for the other city names, or am I getting that wrong?
Here are all the names of Edirne
Oh ok, fair enough I guess, I just have never heard of Adrina. So your saying that Adrina was a very early form of the name Edirne?
Also what do you think about my other suggestions, will you implement them?
embryodead
Caliph
Yes, maybe. Some cities are Latin, like Damascus, some are French, like La Chamelle. I prefer the French one.
embryodead
Caliph
0.3.3
Download installer (259 MB): http://sourceforge.net/projects/sword-of-islam/files/Sword of Islam 0.3.3 Setup.exe/download
or install manually with 7zip archive.
Summary of changes:
- Final score formula now takes historical conditions into account
- Humans can be vassals of the AI
- Spies can now gain XP and special Promotions
- Assassins are now improved Spies
- Two new Espionage missions: Assassinate Special Unit & Assassinate the Heir
- Improved AI (better espionage, unit & wonder production)
- Province/stability highlighting a'la RFCE (press CTRL)
- Stability overlay (CTRL-U or new button above the minimap)
- UHV progress tracking (see Victory Screen)
- The mod now properly loads with languages other than English (it's still English-only though)
- A number of new unit & building graphics
- Plenty of tweaks and bugfixes
Full changelog:
Download installer (259 MB): http://sourceforge.net/projects/sword-of-islam/files/Sword of Islam 0.3.3 Setup.exe/download
or install manually with 7zip archive.
Summary of changes:
- Final score formula now takes historical conditions into account
- Humans can be vassals of the AI
- Spies can now gain XP and special Promotions
- Assassins are now improved Spies
- Two new Espionage missions: Assassinate Special Unit & Assassinate the Heir
- Improved AI (better espionage, unit & wonder production)
- Province/stability highlighting a'la RFCE (press CTRL)
- Stability overlay (CTRL-U or new button above the minimap)
- UHV progress tracking (see Victory Screen)
- The mod now properly loads with languages other than English (it's still English-only though)
- A number of new unit & building graphics
- Plenty of tweaks and bugfixes
Full changelog:
Spoiler :
AnotherPacifist
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2007
- Messages
- 4,878
You really hate the Omani, don't you?
- Changed Carrack's strength from 5 to 6
- Changed the Mongols to kill all Great Specialists in some of the cities their conquer, notably in Mesopotamia
And just as I was about to try the Ottomans, it's so much harder (no free tech with Al-Jazari's workshop).
- Changed Carrack's strength from 5 to 6
- Changed the Mongols to kill all Great Specialists in some of the cities their conquer, notably in Mesopotamia
And just as I was about to try the Ottomans, it's so much harder (no free tech with Al-Jazari's workshop).
@Edead
Thanks for putting out the latest version (although I've been updating through SVN this entire time )
But I was wondering how I could ramp up independent Damascus' defense, especially around the time of the Crusades. I want to have extra defense and a castle (and walls, if they are destroyed initially) spawn before 1096, how can I code that?
Another idea would be to give Damascus to the Zengids, do you think that would be historically accurate for the city to flip to them? Plus it would play a greater role with the Ayyubids IMO.
Thanks for putting out the latest version (although I've been updating through SVN this entire time
) But I was wondering how I could ramp up independent Damascus' defense, especially around the time of the Crusades. I want to have extra defense and a castle (and walls, if they are destroyed initially) spawn before 1096, how can I code that?
Another idea would be to give Damascus to the Zengids, do you think that would be historically accurate for the city to flip to them? Plus it would play a greater role with the Ayyubids IMO.
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