The Thread Where We Discuss Guns and Gun Control

[Estebonrober]

Well since I have come around to the thinking that each state should be given much more autonomy in deciding how they want to do things, I'm down for this deal.

So when are you going to help me plot the coup to take over the nation? I think things would run a lot smoother with us negotiating policy with each other.

why have USA at all just break into fifty independent nations?

 

[Farm Boy]

which is what this is really about... which is why I just cut to the chase... unlimited guns in exchange for unlimited immigration. Sold. Where do I sign?

Very American.

Spoiler gotta get :

Spoiler the chronology :

 

[Estebonrober]

Common defense and shared economic interests? Plus, operating as a loose federation of semi-autonomous states as opposed to fully independent nations reduces the likelihood that disputes between the states will escalate into open warfare.

I don’t really want to help defend your state when it refuses to pitch in, represses it’s citizens, and blames me for all of its problems.

 

[Farm Boy]

He's not West Virginian.

I've certainly never seen denizens of richer states go all "eff you " to the ... oh wait, lol.

 

[Estebonrober]

And that's what makes you un-American. Despite any political differences I may have with, say, the state of California, I would still most certainly help them defend their territory and people if their state were the chosen landing site of a hypothetical foreign invasion.

Also not really sure what you are referring to with those first two points, but that third one isn't so much blaming you for our problems, but rather resistance to your attempts to impose your lifestyle and politics on us. What's good for your state may not be what's good for mine and vice versa. That's why I am a huge fan of the semi-autonomous approach to how our nation should work. Just let each state govern themselves as they see fit with the federal government only stepping in when there is a dispute between them. I don't see why that's such a difficult thing to do.

the first one is because almost every red state is a debtor state. The second is because almost every red state passes laws limiting the rights of its citizens such as voting rights or bedroom laws and bathroom laws.

finally you are right of course. It is unamerican but so is undermining the basic rights due to us in the constitution which your premise here necessarily promotes. Yay guns! Great. Now Alabama passes a law that only white people can vote or hold office. Autonomy though right?

I’ll help defend up until you stop supporting the bill of rights and subsequent amendments. The. This is a different debate. The gun argument itself doesn’t get us there but 50 “autonomous” states does real fast.

 

[Estebonrober]

He's not West Virginian.

I've certainly never seen denizens of richer states go all "eff you " to the ... oh wait, lol.

No really do elaborate here. I want to know more.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Well since I have come around to the thinking that each state should be given much more autonomy in deciding how they want to do things, I'm down for this deal.

So when are you going to help me plot the coup to take over the nation? I think things would run a lot smoother with us negotiating policy with each other.

I already told you, when Civil War II starts and they call for draft volunteers age 15-50 to ante up and kick in to preserve the Union, I won't hide.

But as @Timsup2nothin and you IIRC keep pointing out... things in the country are way too good for the average American, and frankly even the below average income American, for armed rebellion to be any reasonable possibility. When there are breadlines all over the country, towns ablaze for months on end, schools closed, stadiums shut down, hospitals overloaded, stocks crashed, police on strike, banks out of business, internet down, electricity/water not working... maybe... but not now.

I guess we're getting there, with... some of that, but certainly not all of it.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

And that's what makes you un-American. Despite any political differences I may have with, say, the state of California, I would still most certainly help them defend their territory and people if their state were the chosen landing site of a hypothetical foreign invasion.

Also not really sure what you are referring to with those first two points, but that third one isn't so much blaming you for our problems, but rather resistance to your attempts to impose your lifestyle and politics on us. What's good for your state may not be what's good for mine and vice versa. That's why I am a huge fan of the semi-autonomous approach to how our nation should work. Just let each state govern themselves as they see fit with the federal government only stepping in when there is a dispute between them. I don't see why that's such a difficult thing to do.

Because of open borders. What we see right now in California is our good neighbors in Arizona saying "we won't tighten our gun control laws...just look at California and their gun control laws...they just don't work!" Their proof that California gun control laws don't work is that the streets are just flooded with guns most of which were purchased in Arizona.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Don't wait to be drafted. That's for suckers. You gotta form your own warband and become a petty regional warlord.

I know that's my plan. I'm even bringing back press gangs to make sure I don't run out of bipedal, organic weapon platforms to fight my battles.

If you get drafted you get free training and access to weapons. You can form a warband later if the Union loses the War.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Join me as a volunteer. I'll train you and you'll even get a nice command position. Plus my training will be better because some "legit" force is only going to train you in the "legal" way to fight, while I'll teach you all the nasty little asymmetric tactics AQI and JAM taught me in Iraq.

My warband will be consuming human flesh if necessary. Top that.

 

[Zardnaar]

My warband will be consuming human flesh if necessary. Top that.

Sheep bombs. Trained killer attack sheep.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Thanks! I've been trying to find a practical use for the skins.

 

[Farm Boy]

If necessary. That's a universal qualifier.

the first one is because almost every red state is a debtor state. The second is because almost every red state passes laws limiting the rights of its citizens such as voting rights or bedroom laws and bathroom laws.

Tell me more about what those tricky colors do.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Join me as a volunteer. I'll train you and you'll even get a nice command position. Plus my training will be better because some "legit" force is only going to train you in the "legal" way to fight, while I'll teach you all the nasty little asymmetric tactics AQI and JAM taught me in Iraq.

Sold.

My warband will be consuming human flesh if necessary. Top that.

Double sold.

Oh yeah, well we are going to have spikey bits and menacing looking skulls all over our uniforms. Oh and our banners will be made from flayed human skin.

Decisions, decisions

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I think it sets a bad precedent when states and cities openly defy or threaten to defy federal law.

You and I have debated the state's rights/ability to circumvent the FCC to obtain net neutrality where you argued precisely the opposite. You might as well have directly lifted one of my posts the subject and posted it here!

 

[cardgame]

Maybe. But if this actually passes I think it would be a pretty clear declaration that West Virginia doesn't give a wooden nickel about the supremacy clause.

EDIT: I also think those that oppose this wouldn't be too anxious to declare it unconstitutional either just for the simple fact that it would set a legal precedent for going after other states and cities that are immigration sanctuaries.

There is no case to be made against immigration sanctuaries because their police are only declining to assist feds. Basically: it's not their freaking job. They assist as a courtesy only.

West Virginia actively preventing feds from doing their job is classic nullification and we already decided that ****-don't-fly in eighteen-sixty-fi'

 

[Estebonrober]

There is no case to be made against immigration sanctuaries because their police are only declining to assist feds. Basically: it's not their freaking job. They assist as a courtesy only.

West Virginia actively preventing feds from doing their job is classic nullification and we already decided that ****-don't-fly in eighteen-sixty-fi'

The fact that WV is considering this over stupid AR 15s to me shows how insane the right has gotten in the last 40 years. When I was a kid "assault rifles" were banned. I remember it being an issue but not like now, not a potential civil war issue.

 

[Farm Boy]

States weren't making a ruckus about telling immigration to fudge of either. 2020 it is and y'all look crazy at least half the time. Not really any different there, just more of you and less of me on the balance. Fun, eh?

 

[El_Machinae]

Yay! This means that we have people willing to go to guns in order to protect the super PACS after citizens united

And that's what makes you un-American. Despite any political differences I may have with, say, the state of California, I would still most certainly help them defend their territory and people if their state were the chosen landing site of a hypothetical foreign invasion.

Your country is being invaded. It just happens to be a virus. You think the instincts would be similar?

the first one is because almost every red state is a debtor state.

Remember your economic theory! Just because a state is not a net taxpayer doesn't mean that it's not a net contributor. It could be true, but it need not be. It's very similar to insisting that someone who is not a net taxpayer is not a net contributor. If it's said about an ally, you know why it's wrong. We only think it's true when it is said about an opponent

 

[Farm Boy]

Undervaluing the goods and labor of people we're better than is a human feature. Once it's systemic it's just "market science" or "natural morality" or something.

I know it was a very different era with horrors of its own, but I've been missing my father's descriptions and the better historical speeches and vibes of Eisenhower. I mean, McCain wasn't near as cool and I've been missing him too. Went out like a badass at least.