The Thread Where We Discuss Guns and Gun Control

[Lexicus]

Probably something to do with its emotional weight among the 'ban the scary guns to end mass shootings' lib crowd? 90% of firearm homicides are done with pistols. Pistols are more concealable than an AR-15 for mass shooting events. Pistols can even carry more ammo in a magazine (glock 33rnd mags are common enough)

AR-15 bullets are far more damaging than pistol rounds, though, and surely result in a much higher fatality rate among people hit by them. I'd say banning AR-15s is low-hanging fruit in terms of reducing deaths, but you're right, if we want to seriously reduce gun violence we need to make serious efforts to comprehensively remove guns from society.

People being shot by lunatics with AR-15s is a potent symbol for the general lack of regard for life that Americans demonstrate with the whole gun obsession. The way that society has been constructed to lead to that outcome tells a real story about the way our society is constructed to bring profit to capitalists (in this case the capitalists who control the gun industry) at the expense of (mostly poor) people's lives.

 

[cardgame]

AR-15 bullets are far more damaging than pistol rounds, though, and surely result in a much higher fatality rate among people hit by them. I'd say banning AR-15s is low-hanging fruit in terms of reducing deaths, but you're right, if we want to seriously reduce gun violence we need to make serious efforts to comprehensively remove guns from society.

Under No Pretext

 

[Lexicus]

Under No Pretext

I said what I said. Marx, like the Founding Fathers, is a white man who's now dead. We owe him no debt. We should not structure society based on interpretations of his texts.

I believe disarmament needs to be looked at more holistically. "Gun control" is just one part of an agenda that includes nuclear disarmament and getting rid of the military-industrial complex.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Can you please explain how AR-15 is a "red herring term"?

I think the idea is that when boiled down to basics... the AR-15 is a rifle, and gun enthusiasts especially feel that its just a rifle, like your grandad's old wooden-stock M1-Carbine... and the only reason folks are so worked up about the AR-15 is because of how it looks... as-in, the AR-15 has a scary, military-style look to it so people like to refer to it as a "military assault weapon" rather than just calling it what it is... a rifle. At least I believe that's the argument and I can understand where they are coming from, frankly. I mean the gun is very modifiable as I understand it with all kinds of upgrades and modular components, etc., but the vanilla AR-15 is a regular rifle. It's just black/metal instead of wood.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Well yeah but unfortunately due to the way our system of government is constructed, we are forced to go back to the source material.

Shame they didn't make it an actual valid sentence then. Would have saved a lot of confusion.

That "sacred text" is the law of the land. As such, what it says is what determined how we run things, not the whims of whatever the cause of the moment is.

Surely there's some grey area between the law of the land being constantly fluid and subject to contemporary whims, and sticking rigidly to the exact wording of long-dead people because you believe that they, somehow, managed to knock up the perfect system that can never be improved upon (despite it not being entirely clear what the system even is due to the ambiguous wording).

 

[cardgame]

I said what I said. Marx, like the Founding Fathers, is a white man who's now dead. We owe him no debt. We should not structure society based on interpretations of his texts.

I believe disarmament needs to be looked at more holistically. "Gun control" is just one part of an agenda that includes nuclear disarmament and getting rid of the military-industrial complex.

OK, you disarm first. Don't disarm the people first.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Can you please explain how AR-15 is a "red herring term"?

Because it's a trademark term that and colloquially it doesn't describe anything in particular other than a vaguely generic 70 year old direct impingement rifle design. As a talking point about gun control it's almost confusing and misused resulting in many people being less informed on the subject of gun violence and I think that helps nobody. Hope that helps.

"AR-15 bullets" is also a misnomer since cartridge has it's own characteristics independent from the gun that fires it. And the difference between rifle bullet lethality is hardly as great as people think.

 

[Sommerswerd]

There will be no disarming... by anyone... not now, not ever.

"The War is not meant to be won, it is meant to be... continuous."

 

[Estebonrober]

Not to mention there isn't one specific round made only for the AR platform, nor is the AR platform limited to one type of round.



Except it's already happening with red flag laws. I know the mainstream media, including Fox, didn't report on it, but a few days ago someone in DC was killed due to attempted enforcement of red flag laws. Given how those laws are handled, this is a problem since it is near impossible to tell if the guy in question was actually a threat or if someone with an axe to grind just reported him as one to screw with him.

I know I've gone over this before, but red flag laws are not only back door gun confiscation laws, but also violate the 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendments. They also violate the concept of innocent until proven guilty.

fwiw I think red flag laws are unconstitutional on face value, you might be able to come up with a way around it, such as taking away others things that aren't constitutional unless compliance is achieved. Murky territory there though.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Except it's already happening with red flag laws.

I grok I should have been dorky and more specific... There will be no voluntary disarming.

 

[Farm Boy]

I might be enticed to upgrade an old pos if the program is right. I've always wanted a side by side 12 gague. Over unders just feel pretentious and I'm not sure why. Like you left bar review to blast a duck for the cook to clean.

 

[Estebonrober]

I think they are unconstitutional period. Even if you remove the gun aspect from it, those laws are still flagrant denials of Constitutionally guaranteed due process rights.

And it's costing people their lives. The news doesn't like to report on it, but there have been quite a few people, both citizens and police that have been killed trying to enforce these laws. With a not-insignificant number of those deaths resulting from police showing up at the wrong address.

I've generally agreed with your legal principle here but an appeal to lawlessness is not a good argument when discussing law enforcement. Like guns are not alcohol popular for goodness sake.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I might be enticed to upgrade an old pos if the program is right. I've always wanted a side by side 12 gague. Over unders just feel pretentious and I'm not sure why. Like you left bar review to blast a duck for the cook to clean.

Well... if they started making AR-15s that look more like over-unders, with decorative etching and foil waterfowl detailing and polished wood finish and such... maybe people would not be as freaked out about them... but that might mean having to side with those pretentious-not-sure-why types, so

 

[IglooDame]

Well... if they started making AR-15s that look more like over-unders, with decorative etching and foil waterfowl detailing and polished wood finish and such... maybe people would not be as freaked out about them... but that might mean having to side with those pretentious-not-sure-why types, so

Or you could go in a somewhat different direction...

or perhaps

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Oh my god tuck it in girl, tuck it in

She's really about to hurt herself

 

[cardgame]

what have they done to the grip on that AR

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I hope it's just a photoshop error

 

[AmazonQueen]

Claire's Accessories could stock it and sell matching accessories for it. Guns have an image problem, this could be the answer.

 

[Farm Boy]

Hehe. I have a hard enough time dealing with the over unders, I don't usually socially hang with the semi auto crowd. It's like I already suck enough to shoot shot, how bad must they blow at thier hobby to need even more lead down range than that?

 

[Estebonrober]

Or you could go in a somewhat different direction...

or perhaps

So regulate all AR 15s and such to be hot pink or baby blue with extra femininity built into them? I like it.