The Thread Where We Discuss Guns and Gun Control

[Commodore]

One article about the same subject I've read claimed it was a response to "sanctuary cities" for illegal immigrants.

Rather than it being a direct response to sanctuary cities for illegal immigrants, I think it's more of a "if they can pick and choose what laws they want to enforce, then so can we" kind of deal. In other words, the fact that sanctuary cities for illegal immigrants have more or less gone unpunished has set a dangerous precedent that cities and localities can just ignore any law they don't agree with. Don't ask me what kind of punishment there should be, because I don't know. I do know though that something has to be done to demonstrate to local governments that there will be tangible and severe consequences for not enforcing all the laws they are supposed to be enforcing.

There's a reason Taurus has such a bad reputation. I used my stepdad's Taurus 9mm at the range and it jammed at least twice on three out of three magazines. Not just simple jams clearable by the slide action either, had to dig in there to pull the casing out two times. I would expect revolvers to be much less prone to jamming, but I wouldn't bother with their magazine-fed pistols.

And then there's this frickin' absurdity

I'm hoping that's just a very extreme case. Not even Hi-Points are that bad. Seems like Taurus might need to have a little chat with their quality control team though if bad firearms are consistently coming off their production lines.

I don't own it any longer but it was a barrel of fun (pun intended). The build was pretty solid and it had a hammer lock to serve as a safety. The action was also solid enough that I wasn't afraid of accidental discharge though to be honest it was probably a bit too tough on my trigger finger without cocking it first - at which point the action was feather-light. I also really enjoyed that I could use .38 special rounds in place of .357 as they are much cheaper and about as much fun to shoot. I actually miss shooting it but not enough to buy another one at this point.

It was also easy to clean (and to verify it is safe before hand) but that's as much to do with it being a revolver as it does with the build quality. All that said I probably only put 200 rounds through it so I'm not sure how indicative my experiences with it are with regards to build quality as it got much less use than is typical I think.

So it seems, compared to cardgame's account of Taurus firearms, they put a little more effort into making their revolvers than they do their semi-autos. Guess I'll just go with the Beretta M9 then. They are a little more expensive and bulky than I want, but I carried an M9 in the Army, so I'm familiar with it.

 

[zazazuzu]

I'm completely fascinated by the mechanics and engineering of firearms, and simultaneously repulsed by their intended function.

 

[Bugfatty300]

I pretty much love guns. They're part of my professional career, I collect them I shoot them I own them, Ive carried them for self defense. But this incident alone is disgusting. NZ did not deserve this. They they are one of the nicest places you'd ever want to see... far removed from from the terrible stuff that happens around the world.

I felt sick when I read about this. This is a burden we will all have to share.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

So it seems, compared to cardgame's account of Taurus firearms, they put a little more effort into making their revolvers than they do their semi-autos. Guess I'll just go with the Beretta M9 then. They are a little more expensive and bulky than I want, but I carried an M9 in the Army, so I'm familiar with it.

Honestly it probably comes down to the simplicity of revolvers relative to semi-automatics that makes the quality difference rather than a difference in engineering or manufacturing effort.

 

[Zardnaar]

Looks like New Zealand will outright ban mssa. Police have also had to release a statement. Basically people have been voluntarily handing in guns but due to being on high alert walking into a cop shop with a gun is a bad idea. They are saying to contact them first.

 

[Sommerswerd]

There's a reason Taurus has such a bad reputation. I used my stepdad's Taurus 9mm at the range and it jammed at least twice on three out of three magazines. Not just simple jams clearable by the slide action either, had to dig in there to pull the casing out two times. I would expect revolvers to be much less prone to jamming, but I wouldn't bother with their magazine-fed pistols.

And then there's this frickin' absurdity

The video doesn't seem to show any flash, smoke or discharge from the barrel. It also doesn't seem to show the hammer retracting. Shells are also not being ejected upon firing most times...

That can't be standard/common performance for this gun, can it?

Rather than it being a direct response to sanctuary cities for illegal immigrants, I think it's more of a "if they can pick and choose what laws they want to enforce, then so can we" kind of deal. In other words, the fact that sanctuary cities for illegal immigrants have more or less gone unpunished has set a dangerous precedent that cities and localities can just ignore any law they don't agree with. Don't ask me what kind of punishment there should be, because I don't know. I do know though that something has to be done to demonstrate to local governments that there will be tangible and severe consequences for not enforcing all the laws they are supposed to be enforcing.

Doesn't municipal conduct like this undermine the conservative's case?

 

[Yeekim]

Picking and choosing what laws to enforce undermines society as a whole.

 

[Zardnaar]

I'm completely fascinated by the mechanics and engineering of firearms, and simultaneously repulsed by their intended function.

I kinda like them used to enjoy Target shooting. Shot a bird in the 90s young and stupid. Didn't feel right afterwards, bird didn't do anything to me, I didn't eat it may have had young so they would have died as well.

It was only a Sparrow or Fantail but I can still remember doing it.

Unless you are a hunter you don't really need a gun in cities, on a farm sure and maybe for pest control.

And why do AR 15s keep getting used. Morons roleplaying Rambo or Tour of Duty?

 

[Commodore]

Unless you are a hunter you don't really need a gun in cities, on a farm sure and maybe for pest control.

Home invasions are on the rise and most of those occur in cities/suburbs, so yes there is a need to have a gun in built up areas. Police response times have gotten a lot faster, but they still aren't fast enough to save you or your family from an intruder. And even if they could get to you fast enough, in a home invasion scenario, you are going to be taken by surprise and might not even have the opportunity to call the police at all.

And why do AR 15s keep getting used.

Are you talking about for mass shootings? If so, pistols are actually used more than rifles in mass shootings.

If you are talking about for general use, the AR-15 platform has a wide variety of practical uses ranging from pest/varmint control to competition shooting. For some people, the AR-15 platform is also mechanically similar to the M-16/M-4 series of rifles used in the military so it is a rifle they feel comfortable using since they already know how to use/maintain it. Then there's also the fact that the gun industry in the US have decided the AR-15 is going to be "America's rifle" and gear all their products and accessories toward the AR-15 platform. So if you are in the market for a rifle and you see that everything you might need or want for that rifle is geared towards the AR-15, you are going to be more likely to buy an AR-15. It's kinda like how years ago, PCs became more popular than Macs because most software and games were designed for PCs rather than Macs.

So long story short: There are a variety of reasons why the AR-15 platform is a popular purchase among gun owners in the US.

Doesn't municipal conduct like this undermine the conservative's case?

Yes, which is why I'm not really a fan of it. Part of me, of course, likes that this county in North Carolina is trying to stick it to the anti-gun crowd, but ultimately I cannot say I support this policy for the same reasons I don't support the idea of sanctuary cities for illegal immigrants.

Picking and choosing what laws to enforce undermines society as a whole.

Yeah, that too.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Yes, which is why I'm not really a fan of it. Part of me, of course, likes that this county in North Carolina is trying to stick it to the anti-gun crowd, but ultimately I cannot say I support this policy for the same reasons I don't support the idea of sanctuary cities for illegal immigrants.

Yeah, that too.

What about the marijuana laws? Do you think that local/municipal defiance of state/federal law can be a valid check on state/federal overreach/abuse-of-power/tyranny? Isn't that one of the original arguments for the 2nd Amendment in the first place?

 

[Lexicus]

Home invasions are on the rise

[citation needed]

I'll save you some time though, "home invasion" is not a statistical category in the crime figures, so there is actually no way you could know that "home invasions are on the rise," suggesting you just....made it up.

 

[rah]

And even if they could get to you fast enough, in a home invasion scenario, you are going to be taken by surprise and might not even have the opportunity to call the police at all.

This raises the point that if you're surprised and don't have time to call the cops, it would be difficult for your weapon to be retrieved fast enough unless it was in an unsecured location and already loaded, which I'm sure would offer more danger than protection. Just my opinion.

 

[EgonSpengler]

I've yet to hear or read someone outline a situation to me that I felt made their owning a gun for self-defense or home defense sound prudent. The home invasion scenario is both far-fetched and more complicated than gun proponents will say (or than they know, perhaps). For example, I think a lot of burglaries* are committed by someone the victim knows. Do you really want to shoot your teenaged son's drug-addicted friend that you've known since they were 5? Or do you maybe want to get them into rehab? Heck, maybe getting arrested would be the best thing for them. Some places have really good drug courts. Anyway, if you're so scared of The Purge happening in real life, you're better off getting a dog. iirc, having a gun in the house actually makes you more likely to get shot, especially if you're a woman. I have a friend whose rottweiler is a sweetie, and she flips the [fork] out when somebody comes near the house, until she can smell you (the rottweiler, not the friend).



*By "Home Invasion" I presume people are thinking of a burglary where the victim is at home when it happens. This is relatively rare. Most burglaries happen when the victims aren't home, by design, because most burglars don't want to get in a scrap with anybody. Also, most injuries incurred during a burglary are minor - I'd guess they're a result of the burglar trying to escape upon being confronted or stumbling upon someone they didn't know was in the house. In fact, I bet some of the injuries incurred by burglary victims were because the victim tried to engage the burglar with violence and got hurt in the process. Not to say the burglar shouldn't still be charged with assault in those cases, of course they should, I'm just saying some people think they're Jet Li, when they could've just locked themselves in the bathroom and called the cops.

 

[metalhead]

It's an endless curiosity to me that the presumably pro-life people support extra-judicial murder by civilians as a reasonable response to a simple breaking-and-entering.

In fact, how do I know that the stranger who is dressed in dark clothes and is in my house at night even committed a crime if they have yet to be tried and convicted? And I'm supposed to just spur-of-the-moment kill them?

 

[Sommerswerd]

It's an endless curiosity to me that the presumably pro-life people support extra-judicial murder by civilians as a reasonable response to a simple breaking-and-entering.

In fact, how do I know that the stranger who is dressed in dark clothes and is in my house at night even committed a crime if they have yet to be tried and convicted? And I'm supposed to just spur-of-the-moment kill them?

That line of thinking only applies to cops and/or "neighborhood watch" accused of killing unarmed blacks... oh, and Republican SCOTUS nominees of course

About "pro-life"... remember those sweet unborn babies are innocent... not like those totally guilty-until-proven- innocent dead [blank]s. Of course "pro-life" is just a slogan. It doesn't literally mean the person is in favor of "life". To quote the late, great George Carlin... "We get to choose the forms of life we feel are sacred... and we get to kill all the rest... pretty neat deal huh? Know how we got it? We made the whole [effing] thing up!"

 

[Farm Boy]

You're hilarious.

 

[Lexicus]

I'm just sort of in awe of the contrast between "you aren't allowed to believe that Jussie Smollett did that thing but I'm allowed to shoot anyone in my house on sight" and jealous that I didn't think to point it out.

 

[Estebonrober]

[citation needed]

I'll save you some time though, "home invasion" is not a statistical category in the crime figures, so there is actually no way you could know that "home invasions are on the rise," suggesting you just....made it up.

Yea its likely he heard it on the radio or some nonsense where just the other day they had a gun shop owner on my local right wing radio station advocating "getting used to having a loaded firearm at all times on you, just in case". The image of a fat dad sitting at breakfast in his underwear with a 9mm on his side while his wife and kids were in the same room wasn't surreal at all. . .

Fwiw crime has been down across the board for 20 years including last year, this is one of those things I always harp on about because the nature of the media is to focus on the leading bleed. The reality is crime is way way down especially when population increase is taken into account. . .

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

The USA for the time being has decided 20k dead per year due to suicide is fine as long as they can keep their guns.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

*By "Home Invasion" I presume people are thinking of a burglary where the victim is at home when it happens. This is relatively rare. Most burglaries happen when the victims aren't home, by design, because most burglars don't want to get in a scrap with anybody. Also, most injuries incurred during a burglary are minor - I'd guess they're a result of the burglar trying to escape upon being confronted or stumbling upon someone they didn't know was in the house. In fact, I bet some of the injuries incurred by burglary victims were because the victim tried to engage the burglar with violence and got hurt in the process. Not to say the burglar shouldn't still be charged with assault in those cases, of course they should, I'm just saying some people think they're Jet Li, when they could've just locked themselves in the bathroom and called the cops.

I've often heard that if you're going to pull a gun out, you'd best be prepared to use it. That would hold especially true in an actual encounter with a burglar. It's not so simple not to hesitate though - could be someone you know visiting by surprise for example, so you probably don't want to unload 3 to the chest without verifying that the person is someone you don't know.

I would estimate that most people would not feel comfortable enough to keep a level head while aiming a gun at someone. The intruder is likely more apt to use a firearm if packing one. Still, I'm not convinced it's bad to have a weapon if capable of using it responsibly in the moment.

I don't think a crazy accelerationist shooting up a place then spouting crap to be divisive should move the needle on a country's gun law. That's not how responsible policy is handled.

In fact, how do I know that the stranger who is dressed in dark clothes and is in my house at night even committed a crime if they have yet to be tried and convicted? And I'm supposed to just spur-of-the-moment kill them?

I suppose you could make it slow and painful, but there are risks associated with that.

 

[metalhead]

In defending one's home, one is far less likely to face legal trouble if they shoot and kill someone in their home than if they were to injure the person with a knife or knock them unconscious with a blunt object.

Simple, irrefutable proof that our gun laws are immoral and illogical.