The Thread Where We Discuss Guns and Gun Control

[FriendlyFire]

I dont know how he described illegal immigrants or if he was faced with 'caravans' of people, I do know he oversaw the construction of walls and deported more people than Trump. So was Obama anti-immigration? How Trump and Obama referred to illegal immigrants is irrelevant to whether or not they're anti or pro immigration. Going by your logic people either support open borders or they're anti-immigration.

Btw, I lived in SoCal back in the 80s and the people I saw most opposed to illegal immigration were Mexican Americans. They weren't fans of Central and South American gangs 'invading' their neighborhoods.

Quick berzerker tell all the Tump supporters !
Tell them to love Obama, and vote democrat then .... no ? Why ? I thought its irrelevant

Yes, I read it.

https://drudgereport.com/flashtx.htm

He's anti-immigration, I said that. How did you get the idea I said he murdered these people to stop automation? Nothing in his manifesto mentioned Trump other than referring to the Republican senate and administration recently passing visa legislation greatly supporting more foreign labor. He may have supported Trump early on based on building the wall, but he's feeling betrayed by him too. He clearly says his views predate Trump and dont have anything to do with him. He also cited the 1st Democratic debate as a motive, open borders, free health care, followed by citizenship and voting rights etc. Yes, Trump is pro-corporation, pro-immigration and not exactly pro-environment. This guy is the opposite on all 3 counts. He wants to stop immigration, most Americans including Trump want regulated immigration.

Make the final connection berzerker
These white nationalist race idea certainly existed and have long been associated with certain political party. Trump saw this and expoilted it openly, frequently and publicly. Every time Trump opens hes trap he spews increasingly more hatred and demogogary

Why is it that Obama comes under fire for emboldening terrorism for not calling it radical islamic terrorism but Trump gets a free pass for calling immigrants invaders ? rat infested where no human would want to live ?

Why is that ?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

There were armed shoppers in the Wal Mart in El Paso when the shooting went down. Piss all that did. Hell, our guns are so good that even when the police take down the gunman inside a minute, 9 people still die. Absolute madness

 

[Estebonrober]

After Sandy Hook, I knew there would never be. If little five and six year olds getting slaughtered isn't going to change anything, nothing will.

Well it changed my position on the topic and I've never swayed back. So it took one gun right person and put him into the regulate rifles side.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Hehehe, yeah. I loved* the NPR article I listened to today going on and on about super rich progressives outlawing natural gas in new home construction

I want to read about this. Please give me article

 

[Berzerker]

Back in the 80s Duran Duran were tearing up the charts and women appeared to be in a competition to see who could win the most-flammable-hairstyle award through hairspray.

See, I too can make irrelevant statements about things forty years ago.

So you dont care if Mexican Americans opposed open borders because hairstyles are just as irrelevant to the gang warfare they suffered thru then and suffer now. The first time I saw someone get shot in RL was a result of that warfare, I witnessed the invasion of gangs into Mexican American neighborhoods. They weren't complaining about hair and music, they wanted the border controlled. Meh, irrelevant.

Quick berzerker tell all the Tump supporters !
Tell them to love Obama, and vote democrat then .... no ? Why ? I thought its irrelevant

What are you talking about?

Make the final connection berzerker
These white nationalist race idea certainly existed and have long been associated with certain political party. Trump saw this and expoilted it openly, frequently and publicly. Every time Trump opens hes trap he spews increasingly more hatred and demogogary

Why is it that Obama comes under fire for emboldening terrorism for not calling it radical islamic terrorism but Trump gets a free pass for calling immigrants invaders ? rat infested where no human would want to live ?

Why is that ?

The white nationalists were Democrats when I was growing up, but you're confusing Baltimore with illegal immigration. Obama's rhetoric about terrorism never bothered me.

 

[Commodore]

The Russians won the war on guns. There's just too much money behind the gun lobby. Most people don't choose to fight this battle, because as a hill to die on, it's fairly certain death.

Are you going to just keep blaming the Russians every time you don't get your way politically?

 

[Farm Boy]

I want to read about this. Please give me article

I'm drunk. It was broadcast on WNIJ today. Was probably purchased from national NPR, a prohibitive expense. Hehe.

Edit: central

 

[Hygro]

Berzerker and El Machinae I understand that Trump May technically be “pro-immigration” in that he’s not anti all immigration but I think that’s not a good faith argument to consider Trump at all pro immigration, just working within the current order’s bounds. The degree of punishment inflicted on illegal immigrants and asylum seekers is fully extreme and nativist.

 

[El_Machinae]

Thanks for letting me know, but I'm not sure it clarifies my last contribution to the thread of not knowing what a 'genuine white nationalist is.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Thanks for letting me know, but I'm not sure it clarifies my last contribution to the thread of not knowing what a 'genuine white nationalist is.

Maybe it is someone who is really really white skinned.

 

[Birdjaguar]

That explains a lot.

 

[Farm Boy]

Well it changed my position on the topic and I've never swayed back. So it took one gun right person and put him into the regulate rifles side.

It is the suburban emotion position.

 

[Farm Boy]

Sure. Welcome to 2019. Every asshat on the net.

I have so much hate to be guilty about, which is of course on me. But that's a religious relic to outgrow and join the new bright future.

 

[Commodore]

There were armed shoppers in the Wal Mart in El Paso when the shooting went down. Piss all that did.

Being armed doesn't mean anything if you aren't willing to use it. Again, it goes back to the point that a gun isn't going to shoot anyone by itself. It takes a conscious action from a human being to make that gun do anything, whether that be murdering people or stopping someone from murdering people.

So those people with guns who just ran away and did nothing to stop the shooter are disgusting cowards. If you are going to walk around in public armed, then you are implicitly making a statement that you are taking it upon yourself to protect the lives of others. Clearly these armed people in El Paso weren't willing to do that, and as such should not have been walking around in public armed.

As pro-gun as I am, one thing I hate about my fellow gun owners is too many of them just see their guns as a fashion/political statement. There is a duty that comes with gun ownership that far too many gun owners aren't willing to accept.

 

[Farm Boy]

Well, some states do require public permitting. I hate using handguns. Sawed offs are federally illegal. At no point in public am I going to be doing anything past rocking the phone or a fat man momentum suicide charge.

We teach six year olds to do the latter nowadays.

 

[Berzerker]

Berzerker and El Machinae I understand that Trump May technically be “pro-immigration” in that he’s not anti all immigration but I think that’s not a good faith argument to consider Trump at all pro immigration, just working within the current order’s bounds. The degree of punishment inflicted on illegal immigrants and asylum seekers is fully extreme and nativist.

Cloud said Trump and the shooter are both anti immigration. Do you agree with him? The shooter wants to end immigration, Trump wants to slow illegal immigration. So did Obama, so does most of the country. Conflating legal and illegal immigration to accuse people of opposing both by virtue of opposing one is illogical. Pointing out the difference is not a bad faith argument.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Cloud said Trump and the shooter are both anti immigration. Do you agree with him? The shooter wants to end immigration, Trump wants to slow illegal immigration. So did Obama, so does most of the country. Conflating legal and illegal immigration to accuse people of opposing both by virtue of opposing one is illogical. Pointing out the difference is not a bad faith argument.

Actually, Trump has said that he wants immigrants from Norway. His goal is clearly to stop brown people from coming in. He is pro white immigration and anti the rest. Unless they are white Muslims, then he doesn't want them either.

 

[Tristan_C]

Berzerker and El Machinae I understand that Trump May technically be “pro-immigration” in that he’s not anti all immigration but I think that’s not a good faith argument to consider Trump at all pro immigration, just working within the current order’s bounds. The degree of punishment inflicted on illegal immigrants and asylum seekers is fully extreme and nativist.

Trump ran on securing the border, but he also said many times that he wanted more legal immigration.

When he announced his candidacy, I don't believe he realized how widespread anti immigration sentiment was among the republicans. This has been a shift in attitudes since Reagan. I know I have changed. The capitalism-linked argument for immigration that I had 15 years ago or so, I no longer regard as strongly as the civic problem. With 80 million first and second-generation immigrants plus an unknown quantity of current illegals, the US is bound to experience social cohesion problems, severe political divisions, and unrest. And lo-and-behold, what the hell is going on now? Taking in more immigrants would be throwing gas on the fire. Also, if we're talking about giving people UBI (anticipating that there just won't be a lot for people to do, and potential unrest from job losses, as more things get automated) we obviously don't require immigrants.

Illegal immigration dropped precipitously when Trump was elected but before he took office. But the base has been grumbling loudly that he has not put forth his best efforts securing the border. Ingress soared on the perception that Trump was going to be too mired in scandals to accomplish anything, and that the border is going to remain easily penetrable for the time being.

 

[Berzerker]

Actually, Trump has said that he wants immigrants from Norway. His goal is clearly to stop brown people from coming in. He is pro white immigration and anti the rest. Unless they are white Muslims, then he doesn't want them either.

Norway was an example of the immigrants Trump wants to prioritize, skilled as opposed to unskilled. He asked why we should prioritize the unskilled. We get many immigrants from Asia, brown people with skills. Where did Trump say white Muslims are okay? He wanted a Muslim ban because of the war on terror and he supports the immigration of 'brown' Christians subject to Muslim persecution.

 

[Commodore]

Actually, Trump has said that he wants immigrants from Norway. His goal is clearly to stop brown people from coming in. He is pro white immigration and anti the rest. Unless they are white Muslims, then he doesn't want them either.

As Berserker already pointed out, this is you misinterpreting what Trump was saying. Norwegians are known for being generally well-educated. So he used Norway as an example to say "I want well-educated immigrants".